Could Rogue Have Made A Better Captain Marvel Than Carol Danvers?

[Wiccan]

I'm not choosing which character should or should not have the title Captain Marvel. I wanted to see what others thought. But to answer your question in the way you formed it ....I guess I would have to say Marvel would have never chosen Carol at all if they didn't have too. Process of elimination of characters they had actually could use made Carol the choice for lead female in the MCU. It wasn't because they where dying to tell her story.

That can be said about most of the MCU though. While I think they would give him a movie later, they probably wouldn't have started the MCU with Irom Man if Spider-Man was available. Avengers would probably still be part of the MCU, but would they be the focus of it if Marvel had X-Men and Fantastic Four? GOTG likely wouldn't have been made either. And then that would influence the comics too... We would be living on a completely different world.

To go even further down that line of thought.....if they had the full rights Rogue very well could have been Captain Marvel if nothing else but to keep the name in Trademark while cashing on the branding with an already popular character. I really would not put it past Marvel since we are talking about a company who took the Fantastic Four and the X-Men out of all their other advertisement and merch for years due to not having full rights to those characters.

Err... I really doubt it. If they had the rights, they would have made an X-Men movie long before Marvel even thought what to do with the Captain Marvel name. Rogue would be on it, called Rogue, and Marvel wouldn't want to push her as anything else. Would they make Storm become Thor or something like that, if Storm was on a bigger franchise? It makes no sense. And the trademark issues... Marvel has created not one, but four characters to hold that. Monica Rambeau, Genis-Vell, Phyla-Vell and Noh-Varr. All of them obscure characters, but with some connection to Mar-Vellor the kree(except for Monica, but she was replaced quickly by someone who did and I'd say that shows how Marvel feels about it). There's no indication that Marvel would ever give it to Rogue or someone like that, in whatever situation it was.

Rogue may not have gotten anything. But neither would any of the other characters you brought up either.

Re-read my post. This is not the point at all. The point is that Marvel wanted to make a movie about Carol Danvers, not any character with the Captain Marvel name. It's about the situation of the movie.

Every post I made in both threads is just to support the question to be posed so that others can talk about the possibility and if it could or could not work. Rogue being more so a fan favorite supports the question.

If given the opportunity could Rogue resonate better as Marvel's leading Hero? Or is Carol still the better choice for that. That is the question. The name plays a factor in it sure. But it's not really about that.

Then as I said, it's a Carol vs Rogue thing, not who actually fits the name the best. Whether you're asking for people to bash the characters or not has nothing to do with that. It's still about which character you think it's better for some reason. Why did you said I was "accusing you" when I pointed that out?

All it would take is for Rogue to be inspired by Mar-vell for her to be interested in the Name. Or Mar-vell to have respected Rogue enough in a scenario to offer it to her. Easy fixes that could have happened over a course of a few stories. Either way Marvel would never back a character as hard as they have Carol without the name. So it naturally comes along with the question.

The idea of forcing a connection that never existed just to give a reason for Rogue to take the mantle sounds just terrible, and I think it says a lot about how this idea doesn't make sense for her character in the first place.

[SerCo]

Didn't Carol inherited that codename from Mar-Vell? It wouldn't make any sense for Rogue to use it since she doesn't have any connection to the original Captain Marvel.

[DragonsChi]

That can be said about most of the MCU though. While I think they would give him a movie later, they probably wouldn't have started the MCU with Irom Man if Spider-Man was available. Avengers would probably still be part of the MCU, but would they be the focus of it if Marvel had X-Men and Fantastic Four? GOTG likely wouldn't have been made either. And then that would influence the comics too... We would be living on a completely different world.

What if , is what if ,is what if? Right? Which is why I formed the scenario as is specifically about Carol and Rogue in a certain context. Simply because you do not like that Carol is at question does not give you the right to derail the thread or accuse me of anything.

Err... I really doubt it. If they had the rights, they would have made an X-Men movie long before Marvel even thought what to do with the Captain Marvel name. Rogue would be on it, called Rogue, and Marvel wouldn't want to push her as anything else. Would they make Storm become Thor or something like that, if Storm was on a bigger franchise? It makes no sense. And the trademark issues... Marvel has created not one, but four characters to hold that. Monica Rambeau, Genis-Vell, Phyla-Vell and Noh-Varr. All of them obscure characters, but with some connection to Mar-Vell or the kree. There's no indication that Marvel would ever give it to Rogue or someone like that, in whatever situation it was.

Marvel will always push the Captain Marvel name for two reasons. One they need the trademark. Two and the most important it holds the companies name in the title. From a marketing, business, and every other stand point it makes sense. Captain Marvel in some literation or another would exist and be pushed in the movies for those reasons. With or without the X-Men, Spiderman, or the FF.

Re-read my post. This is not the point at all. The point is that Marvel wanted to make a movie about Carol Danvers, not any character with the Captain Marvel name. It's about the situation of the movie.

Read what I said. No they wouldn't have. Carol was never really that popular ever. The only reason she is getting a movie is because Marvel needs a leading female and she has the Marvel name.

Then as I said, it's a Carol vs Rogue thing, not who actually fits the name the best. Whether you're asking for people to bash the characters or not has nothing to do with that. It's still about which character you think it's better for some reason. Why did you said I was "accusing you" when I pointed that out?

The nature of a question is usually to find the answer.

Please take some time to leave the thread and think about that answer before posting and continuing to derail my thread.

The idea of forcing a connection that never existed just to give a reason for Rogue to take the mantle sounds just terrible, and I think it says a lot about how this idea doesn't make sense for her character in the first place.

This is really the only post you should have given in the context of this thread. The other things where unnecessary.

I am also not purposing a forced connection. Carol taking on the mantel of Captain Marvel was just a throw away as a force connection btw.

If Rogue were to take on the mantel of Captain Marvel I would also want it to be told in away that made sense over the course of a few issues.

But again this thread also has very little to do with Mar-vell in general. Since like I said earlier Marvel really does not seem to care about him all that much. (unfortunately)

It is more so about this "if Rogue could handle the mantel and what it stands for. While also discussing would the over all process/experience sell better.
Or on the opposite side if Carol is the only choice where those things can and could still happen."

If you are incapable of discussing that due to your love for Carol then just leave the thread please.

[Wiccan]

What if , is what if is what if? Right? Which is why I formed the scenario as is specifically about Carol and Rogue in a certain context. Simply because you do not like that Carol is at question does not give you the right to derail the thread or accuse me of anything.

What the hell? Where did I derail the thread? The thread is about whether Rogue would be a better Captain Marvel than Carol. I said no. I gave reasons. I'm staying on topic. Do you even know what derailing a thread means? What did I accuse you of? Of this being about Carol vs Rogue as characters, rather than who fits as Captain Marvel name the most? Because that's just the truth. You said it yourself, that what supports this is that Rogue is a fanvorite, while Carol hasn't been resonating with the fans as Captain.

Marvel will always push the Captain Marvel name for two reasons. One they need the trademark. Two and the most important it holds the companies name in the title. From a marketing, business, and every other stand point it makes sense. Captain Marvel in some literation or another would exist and be pushed in the movies for those reasons. With or without the X-Men, Spiderman, or the FF.

They don't need the movies to keep the trademark. And you're just assuming here. Ike Perlmutter didn't want to make the movie at all because was a female-lead one. The idea since the beginning was to make it about Carol. So it was her story that they wanted to tell. At least over the story of other characters named Captain Marvel.

Read what I said. No they wouldn't have. Carol was never really that popular ever. The only reason she is getting a movie is because Marvel needs a leading female and she has the Marvel name.

...Yeah? Except for the "Carol was never popular!" thing, that's exactly what I meant. Next time, if someone says you didn't get their point, maybe actually read again and think about it before going "No, you're the one who didn't!".

This is really the only post you should have given in the context of this thread. The other things where unnecessary.

I'm sorry if you think that, but I had more to say and I did. Why do you have such a problem with that? Because I disagree with you? You can't expect people to just say what you want on a thread. On my original post I also talked more about how Rogue is already doing great without it.

I am also not purposing a forced connection.

You are. Rogue doesn't have anything to do with Marvel. She would only have if they wanted her to take the mantle like you're suggesting. That's forcing. On both of the threads you made, there are a lot of people saying that there's no reason Rogue would want to be Captain Marvel. Or asking why. Or what would be the explanation. The one you gave is not good enough for me, you're just gonna have to deal with that.

Carol taking on the mantel of Captain Marvel was just a throw away as a force connection btw.

Carol has history with him. She was first created as a supporting character on his book. She had some romantic feelings for him. She got his powers from him. When she first debuted, she already had a similar costume/color scheme. The "Marvel" on Ms Marvel was already because of him. You may think her deciding to take the name later is forced, but don't act like it was completely random like it would be with Rogue.

And, you come here and say I'm incapable of discussing? What are the lots of long-ass posts I made here? If you don't consider that discussing, then that's your problem. You're not the one who defines the meaning of the word. You keep saying I should "chill out" and trying to kick me out of the thread. Trying to gaslight everything I say with the excuse that my opinion is invalid because I love Carol. But somehow I'm the one incapable of discussing. Sure.

[DarkMagnus]

Rogue is a superior character in every front.


I mean they have to release a special edition of a movie because of her.


The push of Danvers is for the weird need of a Wonderwoman equal.

[DragonsChi]

What the hell? Where did I derail the thread? The thread is about whether Rogue would be a better Captain Marvel than Carol. I said no. I gave reasons. I'm staying on topic. Do you even know what derailing a thread means? What did I accuse you of? Of this being about Carol vs Rogue as characters, rather than who fits as Captain Marvel name the most? Because that's just the truth. You said it yourself, that what supports this is that Rogue is a fanvorite, while Carol hasn't been resonating with the fans as Captain.

Your derailing the thread by not staying on the topic of the original question. Throwing in other matters along with accusing me of making the thread about Carol vs Rogue and so on is derailing from the original question being asked.

They don't need the movies to keep the trademark. And you're just assuming here. Ike Perlmutter didn't want to make the movie at all because was a female-lead one. The idea since the beginning was to make it about Carol. So it was her story that they wanted to tell. At least over the story of other characters named Captain Marvel.

No they do not need a movie to keep a trademark. The fact that they have a character with their name in his/her title helps the trademark and makes it a NO BRAINER to use in the movies. That stuff about them wanting to make a Carol movie is you just assuming not the other way around.

...Yeah? Except for the "Carol was never popular!" thing, that's exactly what I meant. Next time, if someone says you didn't get their point, maybe actually read again and think about it before going "No, you're the one who didn't!".

This is an example of you derailing BTW. Also you still didn't read the post. I'm saying None of the characters mentioned would have been used.

I'm sorry if you think that, but I had more to say and I did. Why do you have such a problem with that? Because I disagree with you? You can't expect people to just say what you want on a thread. On my original post I also talked more about how Rogue is already doing great without it.

No several have post their thoughts on the subject in this thread or the other and I have not said anything at all in response. You on the other hand are derailing the thread and accusing me of things I did not intend. There is a large difference.

You are. Rogue doesn't have anything to do with Marvel. She would only have if they wanted her to take the mantle like you're suggesting. That's forcing. On both of the threads you made, there are a lot of people saying that there's no reason Rogue would want to be Captain Marvel. Or asking why. Or what would be the explanation. The one you gave is not good enough for me, you're just gonna have to deal with that.

I could careless if it's not good enough for you. As I have said several times the question is not about the HOW it's about "if Rogue could handle the mantel and what it stands for. While also discussing would the over all process/experience sell better.
Or on the opposite side if Carol is the only choice where those things can and could still happen."

To which several have actually answered the question.

If you can not handle that here is the door:

Carol has history with him. She was first created as a supporting character on his book. She had some romantic feelings for him. She got his powers from him. When she first debuted, she already had a similar costume/color scheme. The "Marvel" on Ms Marvel was already because of him. You may think her deciding to take the name later is forced, but don't act like it was completely random like it would be with Rogue.

And, you come here and say I'm incapable of discussing? What are the lots of long-ass posts I made here? If you don't consider that discussing, then that's your problem. You're not the one who defines the meaning of the word. You keep saying I should "chill out" and trying to kick me out of the thread. Trying to gaslight everything I say with the excuse that my opinion is invalid because I love Carol. But somehow I'm the one incapable of discussing. Sure.

I know Marv's history. I also know that in total Carol only actually showed up in 12-14 issues of his 62 issue comic series. That most of their intense "love" connection was built up in Carol's own mind and boosted as more then what it was to give Carol more of a purpose. I also know that Marvel only brought back a ghost/reincarnated like version of Marvel to handle over the mantle of Captain Marvel to Carol to which she didn't take until her first issue of the title came out as Captain Marvel.

All of which has ZERO to do with this thread. Stay in the context of the question purposed or leave please! If you do not understand the context then ask and I will further explain it to you.

I also said it was just as much a throw away. Never said it was forced. Throw Away means the overall of it was just as speeded over as if it had been forced. One minute she was being pushed in her own failing Ms. Marvel title, repping being her own woman. In the next minute she was Captain Marvel claiming she was taking his "damn name".

Which is fine either way since again it has ZERO to do with what I am asking in this thread or CARE about.


Anyway, just to end this how business.... Carol Danvers claimed the mantle of Captain Marvel but shortly after died . Rogue was some how part of the adventure that led to her death and in Carols final moments asked if she would continue Mar-Vells Legacy . Rogue who was inspired by Carol courage as a hero and in her death grants her dying wish and claims the Captain Marvel title as her own.

There, Now could Rogue handle the title as Captain Marvel? Could she be Marvels defacto number one superhero to the Marvel Universe? Would she be more appealing to fans and potentially sell better?

Or would Carol still do all these things better?

[Wiccan]

Your derailing the thread by not staying on the topic of the original question. Throwing in other matters along with accusing me of making the thread about Carol vs Rogue and so on is derailing from the original question being asked.

That's not derailing at all. The "other matters" all have to do with the subject. I'm not randomly posting ****, most of my posts here are answers to you. If you want people to only say no or yes, the poll is already there for it, not need to comment at all.

Also you still didn't read the post. I'm saying None of the characters mentioned would have been used.

Oh my GOD... Don't you see that's what I'm trying to explain here? That's exactly what I said. That none of the characters I mentioned would have been used.

I could *care less(careless is an adjective) if it's good enough for you. As I have said several times the question is not about the HOW it's about "if Rogue could handle the mantel and what it stands for. While also discussing would the over all process/experience sell better.
Or on the opposite side if Carol is the only choice where those things can and could still happen.

Well, the fact that is not good enough for me is one of the reasons why, no, I don't think her being Captain Marvel works. It's not a question of how much you care, it's a question about me expressing my feelings about a subject that was brought up. Whether the book would sell more with her than Carol, probably, but I also think a "Rogue" solo book would sell more than a Captain Marvel one with Rogue.

To which several have actually answered the question.

As did I. If the problem is that I didn't talked about the sales, no one else did either. You're just upset because I'm not just saying what you want.

If you can not handle that here is the door:

Talk about derailing the thread.

I know Marv history. I also know that in total Carol only actually showed up in 5-6 issues of his 62 issue comic series. That most of their "love" connection was built up in Carol's own mind and boosted as more then what it was to give Carol more of a purpose. I also know that Marvel only brought back a ghost/reincarnated like version of Marvel to handle over the mantle of Captain Marvel to Carol to which she didn't take until her first issue of the title came out as Captain Marvel.

It's not about how important Carol is for Mar-Vell. Is how important Mar-Vell is for Carol. And how he isn't that for Rogue at all. She's the one who decided to take his name. Their love connection, built up on her own mind as you say, matters to her. That's why it makes sense for HER to make that decision. "They used a reincarnation version of Marvel to handle over the mantle"... Again, yeah, they BROUGHT back someone she cared about to have an influence on her. Much different from doing that to a character that didn't know said brought back person in the first place.

I also said it was just as much a throw away. Never said it was forced. Throw Away means the overall of it was just as speeded over as if it had been forced. One minute she was being pushed in her own failing Ms. Marvel title, repping being her own woman. In the next minute she was Captain Marvel claiming she was taking his "damn name".

Which is fine either way since again it has ZERO to do with what I am asking in this thread or CARE about.

Let me remind you that you're the one who brought up the way Carol became Captain Marvel. I was only talking about your idea for Rogue taking the mantle, and you brought up how Carol did for comparison. I think Carol becoming Captain Marvel could have been handled a bit better, yeah, but for someone like Rogue who never had any relation with him or other Captain Marvels there's just no way it would make sense at all.

[DragonsChi]

That's not derailing at all. The "other matters" all have to do with the subject. I'm not randomly posting ****, most of my posts here are answers to you. If you want people to only say no or yes, the poll is already there for it, not need to comment at all.

Most of which you posted has nothing to do with the context of the question. If you think Carol would and still could do better then Rogue or anyone else as Captain Marvel then post that. The rest of your comments have nothing to do with this thread.

Oh my GOD... Don't you see that's what I'm trying to explain here? That's exactly what I said. That none of the characters I mentioned would have been used.

Pay attention. That includes Carol Danvers. Essh

Well, the fact that is not good enough for me is one of the reasons why, no, I don't think her being Captain Marvel works. It's not a question of how much you care, it's a question about me expressing my feelings about a subject that was brought up. Whether the book would sell more with her than Carol, probably, but I also think a "Rogue" solo book would sell more than a Captain Marvel one with Rogue.

See now for a brief second you get it. The bold actually has to do with this thread. I would go into further detail with you about this to actually discuss if you weren't throwing such a fit about me questioning Carol Danvers.

As did I. If the problem is that I didn't talked about the sales, no one else did either. You're just upset because I'm not just saying what you want.

No, only thing I'm bothered by is you being hostile and derailing this thread. Notice how you are the only one who posted that Rogue should not be Captain Marvel that I am actively engaging with. It is because you are the only one deterring the thread and accusing me of things that are not true.

Talk about derailing the thread.

Door still there sweet em's feel free to use it.

It's not about how important Carol is for Mar-Vell. Is how important Mar-Vell is for Carol. And how he isn't that for Rogue at all. She's the one who decided to take his name. Their love connection, built up on her own mind as you say, matters to her. That's why it makes sense for HER to make that decision. "They used a reincarnation version of Marvel to handle over the mantle"... Again, yeah, they BROUGHT back someone she cared about to have an influence on her. Much different from doing that to a character that didn't know said brought back person in the first place.

Again, in the context of the question the HOW does not really matter. Rogue's connection to Mar-vell is incredibly weak but it's there, anything could be done to enforce that to be stronger just to give her what Marvel really cares about which is the name.

Let me remind you that you're the one who brought up the way Carol became Captain Marvel. I was only talking about your idea for Rogue taking the mantle, and you brought up how Carol did for comparison.

Not really. I simply said it was just as bad as if it were forced. But whatever are you done yet? Can we move on?

I think Carol becoming Captain Marvel could have been handled a bit better, yeah, but for someone like Rogue who never had any relation with him or other Captain Marvels there's just no way it would make sense at all.

Ok, since your hung up on the how read the other edit I made to the post you quoted. And remember the HOW has nothing to do with the question. Which I have said SEVERAL times !

[Muffinman]

Why would she want to do that? Rogue is such a better codename :P

I don’t think that Rogue would work well calling herself Captain Marvel. If she was doing all of the things that captain marvel was doing but still calling herself Rogue, I think that might work- but I don’t think “taking up the mantle” is appropriate.
Rogue is doing really, really well as Rogue. I think that changing her name just for a sales gimmick would be terrible for her character.

The only other character that should be captain marvel is Spectrum. Seriously, Monica was the greatest captain Marvel

[ChibaMariners]

Nothing interesting about how Carol is being written now, so I wouldn't mind.

[MarvelMaster616]

That's an interesting question. The idea of Rogue becoming Captain Marvel would make a great What If story. I would love to see Marvel do something like that at some point.

That said, as both a fan of Rogue and Carol Danvers, I don't think Rogue would've made a better Captain Marvel. That's not to say Rogue couldn't handle it. I think she could, but I think it's a role that Carol would embrace more. Rogue has her own brand of charisma and strength, but most of her concerns are confined to this planet. Carol is someone who, from her earliest incarnations, seeks to explore conflict beyond Earth. She looks up in the sky and wants to go there, not just admire it. She's someone who is eager and comfortable venturing out into the stars. Rogue would be willing to do that, but she seems more inclined to deal with issues at home first.

Both are great heroes and great characters, but at the end of the day, I think Carol is more suited to the role of Captain Marvel.

[mikeb]

Who knows, but what if at the end of "No Surrender", Rogue ends up inheriting the Legacy of Voyager? Especially if Valerie turns out to be Ionic powered like Rogue is. Just think, Rogue, inheriting the legacy of an Avenger "founder". Think Rogue would look good dressed in Yellow?

[DragonsChi]

That's an interesting question. The idea of Rogue becoming Captain Marvel would make a great What If story. I would love to see Marvel do something like that at some point.

That said, as both a fan of Rogue and Carol Danvers, I don't think Rogue would've made a better Captain Marvel. That's not to say Rogue couldn't handle it. I think she could, but I think it's a role that Carol would embrace more. Rogue has her own brand of charisma and strength, but most of her concerns are confined to this planet. Carol is someone who, from her earliest incarnations, seeks to explore conflict beyond Earth. She looks up in the sky and wants to go there, not just admire it. She's someone who is eager and comfortable venturing out into the stars. Rogue would be willing to do that, but she seems more inclined to deal with issues at home first.

Both are great heroes and great characters, but at the end of the day, I think Carol is more suited to the role of Captain Marvel.

Very good points. I'm not sure that Rogue would be as bound to earth as you say but I do see where you are coming from. Rogue still feels like a characters who is more so confined to her circumstances then anything else. Maybe a new role is just what she needs to break free from it all. *Shrug*

But you are right Carol is a very natural fit for the space side of the role in general.

Who knows, but what if at the end of "No Surrender", Rogue ends up inheriting the Legacy of Voyager? Especially if Valerie turns out to be Ionic powered like Rogue is. Just think, Rogue, inheriting the legacy of an Avenger "founder". Think Rogue would look good dressed in Yellow?

I'm sure if that where to happen she would mix in some of her signature Green as well. Might look something similar to her 90's uniform.

[Ricochet Rita]

I voted 'NO' because

I don't think Rogue would've made a better Captain Marvel. That's not to say Rogue couldn't handle it. I think she could, but I think it's a role that Carol would embrace more. Rogue has her own brand of charisma and strength, but most of her concerns are confined to this planet. Carol is someone who, from her earliest incarnations, seeks to explore conflict beyond Earth. She looks up in the sky and wants to go there, not just admire it. She's someone who is eager and comfortable venturing out into the stars. Rogue would be willing to do that, but she seems more inclined to deal with issues at home first.

Both are great heroes and great characters, but at the end of the day, I think Carol is more suited to the role of Captain Marvel.

I don't see Rogue taking a Cap cape. Her spirit is simply so much different.

Also: Cheers Monica Rambeau!

[LordAllMIghty]

I need an "Other" option.

I think Rogue should be Rogue and Carol should be Ms. Marvel. I think someone else should be Captain Marvel.

I think the Captain Marvel title would have been a lot more exciting to me if they gave the name to an All New, All Different character.

On a side note...I think Monica has outgrown the Captain Marvel name.