Could Rogue Have Made A Better Captain Marvel Than Carol Danvers?

[Sutekh]

Monica Rambeau is the BEST Captain Marvel.

But if we're only comparing Carol and Rogue, then hell yes for the latter.

I like Monica Rambeau better than either of the others, but she's fine to be as Photon or Spectrum or just Monica Rambeau.

As for the OP, *if*, in the 80s when it all shook out, Rogue had accidentally stolen Carol's powers permanently, and after Xavier off-loaded the stolen memories back to Carol, Carol went on to become Marvel's answer to Amanda Waller, the non-powered government liaison between the hero community and the authorities and Rogue had eventually come to accept the mantle of Captain Marvel, then that would indeed have been an intriguing spin on things, particularly if, as Captain Marvel, she spent some time as an Avenger, as well as an X-Man, serving like the Beast or Quicksilver, as one of those bridge characters that flits back and forth and helps tie the world together and make it feel less like hero stories set on alternate worlds entirely.

She'd be an interesting Captain Marvel just because her personality is so different, and I could see the government in particular having a lot of trouble with her, *especially* if Carol Danvers ends up being the government authority who 'handles' interactions with the Avengers, etc...

It could make an interesting 'What If?' someday.

[cam18]

Rogue is a better character for just being her.......she doesn't need that title nor would it be a real upgrade imo...

[CosmiComic]

I like Monica Rambeau better than either of the others, but she's fine to be as Photon or Spectrum or just Monica Rambeau.

Any name is good, as long as she gets to do something and isn't forgotten about

As for the OP, *if*, in the 80s when it all shook out, Rogue had accidentally stolen Carol's powers permanently, and after Xavier off-loaded the stolen memories back to Carol, Carol went on to become Marvel's answer to Amanda Waller, the non-powered government liaison between the hero community and the authorities and Rogue had eventually come to accept the mantle of Captain Marvel, then that would indeed have been an intriguing spin on things, particularly if, as Captain Marvel, she spent some time as an Avenger, as well as an X-Man, serving like the Beast or Quicksilver, as one of those bridge characters that flits back and forth and helps tie the world together and make it feel less like hero stories set on alternate worlds entirely.

She'd be an interesting Captain Marvel just because her personality is so different, and I could see the government in particular having a lot of trouble with her, *especially* if Carol Danvers ends up being the government authority who 'handles' interactions with the Avengers, etc...

It could make an interesting 'What If?' someday.

It might make in an interesting what if. But the mainline universe doesn't need any more depowered superheroines

I do like the idea of creating more bridges between A & X sides of Marvel, something many seem averse to

Rogue is a better character for just being her.......she doesn't need that title nor would it be a real upgrade imo...

Tbh, I'm not totally sold on the appeal of Rogue. To me, she's like Carol: ok, but just there

[Castle]

Rogue is a better character for just being her.......she doesn't need that title nor would it be a real upgrade imo...

Agreed, because let's be realistic, and I know many of the most famous marvel stories of all, is there any story with Rogue as Captain Marvel that would have been better or have held much significant as her relationship with Gambit and her been the main star of one of the best X-Books on the late 2000s and early 2010s X-MEN Legacy.

Does Carol even have any iconic love interest like the Gambit thing? Rogue has come a long way as a character since she showed up as a brotherhood member. there is nothing in carol's own history that Rogue needs that would have served as any real upgrade.

[CosmiComic]

Agreed, because let's be realistic, and I know many of the most famous marvel stories of all, is there any story with Rogue as Captain Marvel that would have been better or have held much significant as her relationship with Gambit and her been the main star of one of the best X-Books on the late 2000s and early 2010s X-MEN Legacy.

Does Carol even have any iconic love interest like the Gambit thing? Rogue has come a long way as a character since she showed up as a brotherhood member. there is nothing in carol's own history that Rogue needs.

Since when does a superheroine need an iconic love interest? And no offense, but Rogue and Gambit was a bit cringe to me in some ways.

[Castle]

The correct answer is Monica. And I preferred and found Carol more interesting as Binary. I don't think Rogue would be good as a Ms. Marvel personally.

Monica is getting more love than Carrol these days and I am guessing it is because of the MCU movies and TV Show. Anyway, better Monica than Rogue.

[AppleJ]

Nope. Rogue works best for me when she is with her mutant family. I also like to see her dabbling in more gray areas and going ... well ... Rogue! I love her villianous origin and need for redemption. I like seeing her pulled occasionally into more street level scenarios and not always the huge, universe ending "big superhero" space stories. I like exploring her struggle with her powers, using them in new and weird ways, and her interpersonal relationships. Her flying brick moments are great, but ultimately get boring if that's all we get from her. She should be sassy and fun and quippy.

Captain Marvel is typically operating in a solo capacity or adjacent to fellow Avengers and always moreso has the huge universe saving, space stories with lots of punching. She also is just too good, too heroic and too beholden to authority at times for me and so self-sacrificing and distant in her relationships. Her humor is more dry and her storylines more heavy. I don't want Rogue to become this.

[Vegeta]

Honestly, since Marvel loves killing off and replacing heroes so much (Spidey, Doc Strange, Cap etc.) Why not kill off Carol for a year or two and let Rogue take over the mantle for a bit? Could be fun with the right creative team.

[CosmiComic]

Honestly, since Marvel loves killing off and replacing heroes so much (Spidey, Doc Strange, Cap etc.) Why not kill off Carol for a year or two and let Rogue take over the mantle for a bit? Could be fun with the right creative team.

If Carol was temporarily killed off, I'd prefer a different character take over for her. Idk if Rogue is currently close enough to want to take on her mantle. It might seem OOC

And Marvel only does this temporarily. Actual permanent change is rare indeed, unless it's some kind of character assassination like Wanda Maximoff in HoM

[Gripstir]

Well, even if she was from the North, or Canada, Rogue still probably wouldn't be Captain Marvel. However I doubt people would negatively react to her accent. I don't mind her being raceswapped considering the history of X-Men appropriating minority experiences, but Idk if disney thinks it's necessary

That was kind of my point. Nobody would care if Rogue wasnt white and if no one cares then there is no reason for her to be white. Al you are asking for is problems. It’s better to raceswap her just so people don’t get angry if I was in a Disney chair I would not want white southern people as heroes at all. Make them more generic and easier to digest.

Well, no offense to the South, but it is behind in many metrics of living. Doesn't mean they should be stereotyped at all, but all of the USA is stereotyped, and compared to how minorities are portrayed, the South gets off relatively well IMO.

Idk if I agree with stereotyped better. I would say southern whites have probably the worst stereotypes out of anyone. Racist, incest, cult leaders, corrupt, hillbilly redneck axe murders. Which is exactly what the rest of the world thinks of when they think of the south. I mean if I say white southern I’m sure your first thought is something bad. That’s just how it is. And Disney has no problem removing people with bad reputations. Rogue would have a bad stigma if she was shown to be white in the MCU that a lot of people wouldn’t accept her.

And how did you surmise Twitter controls Disney? That's ludicrous. Many on Twitter and other social media criticized Ancient One being played by a Scottish actress, and they were right to do so. If X-men continue their whole "majority heroes as minorities" shtick, they should get backlash.

Ok so Twitter is hard to compare when you are talking about China. Twitter can drop a box office. China can completely block the movie. We are seeing that with Shang Chi and Eternals. Ancient one was a tibetian man but China and Tibet don’t get along. So to protect the movie they changed a Tibetian man to a white women and it was a smart move. Just like changing Rogue’s ethnicity to something people in other counties would like. Maybe make Rogue Chinese so China will watch it.

[Gripstir]

This is a de ja vu because on the marvel fourm, someone already told me this but this time with how they changed Tony Stark's character to fit Disney's reputation more.

But X-MEN was not really horror. I also seem to recall Rogue was part of a wave to bring more culture to x-men in the post 70s era and beyond. Nightcrawler was german, Storm was african, Colossus was Russian, Gambit was Cajun, Kitty was Jewish, Rogue was a southern belle



True, although the reason we should never confused Twitter hype and backlash with actual substance as many seem to do. Disney needs twitter for marketing, however us old school fans we care more about the real substance of our stories and part of that is when our stories never play it safe.

Yeah Tony Stark probably got changed because of global markets.


And yeah X-men is not horror but horror is kinda a reflection of current era fears. You had slasher movies of the 70s and 80s that coincided with serial killing. And every horror movie now is talking about racial fears and the fear of white power or white groups. You look at movies like Midsommer or Jordan Peele movies. They are a reflection of our time and shows a fear of white people. So Disney would be smart to avoid topics that people have an aversion to. So since so many people have a valid hatred of white people right now it’s a good indication that white heroes, especially from the south, is not what people want to see as heroes. And Disney most likely will try to mitigate a white dominance in their movies. As I said I just think Rogue has too many red flags that I don’t think you can cast her as white.

And tbh Disney doesn’t care about how comic fans view their casting moves. If you’re a comic fan you’re gonna see the movie regardless. They only care about the non comic fans coming to see the movies as that gives them the bulk of their success

[CosmiComic]

That was kind of my point. Nobody would care if Rogue wasnt white and if no one cares then there is no reason for her to be white. Al you are asking for is problems. It’s better to raceswap her just so people don’t get angry if I was in a Disney chair I would not want white southern people as heroes at all. Make them more generic and easier to digest.

Um, ok. I'm guessing some X-Men would be racebent in the MCU if they're going to keep up the whole fictional minority business

Idk if I agree with stereotyped better. I would say southern whites have probably the worst stereotypes out of anyone. Racist, incest, cult leaders, corrupt, hillbilly redneck axe murders. Which is exactly what the rest of the world thinks of when they think of the south. I mean if I say white southern I’m sure your first thought is something bad. That’s just how it is. And Disney has no problem removing people with bad reputations. Rogue would have a bad stigma if she was shown to be white in the MCU that a lot of people wouldn’t accept her.

While I don't think Southern stereotypes are nice or acceptable, I'm pretty sure they're far from the worst. Southern Whites don't get the police called on them just for walking down the street, or assumed to be a criminal if they go missing. Just African-American women or Native American women alone suffer worse. I'm pretty sure Southern Whites just have it the worst out of White Americans, and even then Northerners and Californians are also heavily mocked

But honestly, I'm not bothered if she's changed. There are plenty of White superheroes.

Ok so Twitter is hard to compare when you are talking about China. Twitter can drop a box office. China can completely block the movie. We are seeing that with Shang Chi and Eternals. Ancient one was a tibetian man but China and Tibet don’t get along. So to protect the movie they changed a Tibetian man to a white women and it was a smart move. Just like changing Rogue’s ethnicity to something people in other counties would like. Maybe make Rogue Chinese so China will watch it.

Well, in this case it was a mix of pandering to China and trying to avoid a stereotype. I still don't agree with their decision, even though I enjoy Tilda Swinton. They could've just cast a Tibetan man in a non-stereotypical portrayal of the Ancient One. Consider how Wong, and now it seems Shang-Chi and Mandarin, have been modernized. The same could've been done for the Ancient One.

[Hulkout42]

At this point i think anyone can be given the current state of the character.

[Gripstir]

While I don't think Southern stereotypes are nice or acceptable, I'm pretty sure they're far from the worst. Southern Whites don't get the police called on them just for walking down the street, or assumed to be a criminal if they go missing. Just African-American women or Native American women alone suffer worse. I'm pretty sure Southern Whites just have it the worst out of White Americans, and even then Northerners and Californians are also heavily mocked

I was talking more movie stereotypes. I will say I grew up in a black neighborhood all my life and I have never heard the black people being thought of criminals when gone more than other races. Idk. But yeah I think you’re talking more about racism not necessarily movie stereotypes. More people’s perceptions of people.

But honestly, I'm not bothered if she's changed. There are plenty of White superheroes.

While I agree with you here I think the “plenty of white superheroes” line is something I find offensive because it reduces people to their skin color. Even if characters are white it’s still the personality you love about them. So just kinda dismissing them based on race and not on the connection fans have to them is kinda problematic.

Well, in this case it was a mix of pandering to China and trying to avoid a stereotype. I still don't agree with their decision, even though I enjoy Tilda Swinton. They could've just cast a Tibetan man in a non-stereotypical portrayal of the Ancient One. Consider how Wong, and now it seems Shang-Chi and Mandarin, have been modernized. The same could've been done for the Ancient One.

Actually they couldn’t have. They didn’t replace Ancient one because of stereotypes. They replaced him because China’s censorship board will block any movie with Tibet in it. I think something similar is happening in the new Top Gun movie where they had to edit Tom Cruises jacket to remove a patch that recognizes Taiwan, because China does not recognize Taiwan as a independent country. Like seriously, China does not play around.

As for Shang Chi I’m not sure if you read the reasons that China is banning Shang Chi. They are banning it for several reasons including 1. Racist comic origins that aren’t part of the movie. 2. Ugly lead Asian characters they find disrespectful 3. Heroes going to America to learn western moral values and a villain from China.

China is very strict. And many countries are. It’s important to protect your properties.

Like you can’t put a white Rogue in a movie in China. It’s impossible. It has to be someone with less racial baggage. That’s why Carol is better and Rogue will be racebent. To appease places like China

[CosmiComic]

I was talking more movie stereotypes. I will say I grew up in a black neighborhood all my life and I have never heard the black people being thought of criminals when gone more than other races. Idk. But yeah I think you’re talking more about racism not necessarily movie stereotypes. More people’s perceptions of people.

Well, I think a lot of racist beliefs are founded on stereotypes, and vice versa.

While I agree with you here I think the “plenty of white superheroes” line is something I find offensive because it reduces people to their skin color. Even if characters are white it’s still the personality you love about them. So just kinda dismissing them based on race and not on the connection fans have to them is kinda problematic.

It's more that there aren't nearly as many non-White superheroes. It's not dismissing them so much as confronting the default assumption superheroes must be White.

Actually they couldn’t have. They didn’t replace Ancient one because of stereotypes. They replaced him because China’s censorship board will block any movie with Tibet in it. I think something similar is happening in the new Top Gun movie where they had to edit Tom Cruises jacket to remove a patch that recognizes Taiwan, because China does not recognize Taiwan as a independent country. Like seriously, China does not play around.

As for Shang Chi I’m not sure if you read the reasons that China is banning Shang Chi. They are banning it for several reasons including 1. Racist comic origins that aren’t part of the movie. 2. Ugly lead Asian characters they find disrespectful 3. Heroes going to America to learn western moral values and a villain from China.

China is very strict. And many countries are. It’s important to protect your properties.

Like you can’t put a white Rogue in a movie in China. It’s impossible. It has to be someone with less racial baggage. That’s why Carol is better and Rogue will be racebent. To appease places like China

China is strict but Disney could've said no to them.

I've heard the reasons China and some Chinese people have problems with Shang-Chi. I understand some of them, but not all. I don't agree with calling the actor unattractive, for instance. However, Idk if China is never allowing this movie or just delaying it.