Did Chris Claremont hate cyclops?

[FUBAR007]

Do others really think that we Scott fans are happy that he has the stigma of how he treated Maddie or Jean hanging over him to this day? Or that we think he was right to treat them that way?

In your specific case, no.

But, I have been in arguments with Scemma shippers who think Scott was absolutely justified in cheating on Jean. I've also encountered fans who genuinely think turning Scott into a deadbeat dad and adulterer made him a better, more interesting, and more sympathetic character.

As far as Claremont goes, do we know what he was told to do in order to get Scott and Jean back together?

It wasn't Claremont. It was Louise Simonson, the writer of X-Factor (once Bob Layton left after only a few issues). Given how she played Scott and Jean's renewed relationship and how long she stretched it out, I think she had a pretty free hand. They didn't get back together until Fall of the Mutants, 25 issues in, and they didn't completely reconcile until issue 59, almost 5 years in.

Claremont's end of things was figuring out what to do with Madelyne.

[FUBAR007]

Yes, he did. It was heavily implied they slept together on the plane after fighting Moses Magnum in Japan, before they were accosted by Alpha Flight.

Summary of the scene in question from Uncanny X-Men #120:

Having left the Savage Land, hoping to return to warn Professor Xavier of Magneto’s threat, the X-Men finally seem to be on their way. Sunfire warmly shakes Cyclops by the hand for all their help in saving Japan. Cyclops replies that, should he ever return to the States, their home is his home. He asks the X-Men to board the plane but Nightcrawler notices that Wolverine is nowhere to be found.

Not too far away, a limousine with Mariko Yashida inside it receives a tap on the window. She opens it and a gloved hand reaches inside. On the palm sits a white chrysanthemum, which surprises her. She looks through the window and sees Wolverine, who tells her it’s a gift; something to remember him by. She says it’s very beautiful and Wolverine replies that so is she. He tells her his name is Logan and bids her farewell.

Wolverine rejoins the team and they head for America aboard a custom-built DC10, owned by lawyer Jeryn Hogarth. Passing over the Alaskan coast, the pilots, Annie and Jill, find the weather becoming gradually worse. Anchorage and Juneau airports are closed and conditions at Seattle and Vancouver are deteriorating. It looks like they’ll have to jump the Rockies. Annie heads off to inform the X-Men of the situation, finding Colleen Wing asleep besides Scott. They’ve been together ever since the plane took off. She wakes Scott and asks him to come up to the flight deck.

OK, so ha ha. Yes, they literally fell asleep next to each other.

The point is that Scott and Colleen never had sex with each other. Nothing in this story indicated that they did. Read sex into it if you want, but that's your personal headcanon, not canon.

[Hizashi]

In your specific case, no.

But, I have been in arguments with Scemma shippers who think Scott was absolutely justified in cheating on Jean. I've also encountered fans who genuinely think turning Scott into a deadbeat dad and adulterer made him a better, more interesting, and more sympathetic character.

Thank you. I enjoy Jott, and even if I don't like how it started, I also enjoy Scemma. Scott wasn't justified in cheating on Jean - but I do believe it's more complex than he's simply a bad person. And while I think Jean played a role in it's inception (at least, that's how I read Morrison's run), there can be no doubt that Scott is the most responsible for it. As far as Scott becoming better for how he treated Maddie and Jean - no. I disagree, but that happened before my time. I was six-years-old when Morrison began his run on New X-Men, but I don't think it makes him better. I can maybe see how it would make him more sympathetic, but not better.

It wasn't Claremont. It was Louise Simonson, the writer of X-Factor (once Bob Layton left after only a few issues). Given how she played Scott and Jean's renewed relationship and how long she stretched it out, I think she had a pretty free hand. They didn't get back together until Fall of the Mutants, 25 issues in, and they didn't completely reconcile until issue 59, almost 5 years in.

Claremont's end of things was figuring out what to do with Madelyne.

That's right, forgot about that. Still, now I wonder what, if any, guidelines he was given about how to handle Maddie. I've said before that I think it would've been interesting to see how Scemma might've worked if Jean had lived, and I've also thought it would've been interesting if Scott had made the morally upstanding decision - to stay with Maddie even if he learned that she was a clone.

[Lokimaru]

Thank you. I enjoy Jott, and even if I don't like how it started, I also enjoy Scemma. Scott wasn't justified in cheating on Jean - but I do believe it's more complex than he's simply a bad person. And while I think Jean played a role in it's inception (at least, that's how I read Morrison's run), there can be no doubt that Scott is the most responsible for it. As far as Scott becoming better for how he treated Maddie and Jean - no. I disagree, but that happened before my time. I was six-years-old when Morrison began his run on New X-Men, but I don't think it makes him better. I can maybe see how it would make him more sympathetic, but not better.



That's right, forgot about that. Still, now I wonder what, if any, guidelines he was given about how to handle Maddie. I've said before that I think it would've been interesting to see how Scemma might've worked if Jean had lived, and I've also thought it would've been interesting if Scott had made the morally upstanding decision - to stay with Maddie even if he learned that she was a clone.

Well after Maddie started sleeping with his brother Alex shit gets kind of hinkey. Why some people call Scott a deadbeat when he actually raised Nathan Christopher I'll never understand. People act like Scott never tried going back to Madelyn, hell he identified her dead body (another clone planted by Sinister).

[RCX]

The moment she turned out to be a trap designed to steal his seed baited with the face of the love of his life is when I stopped caring about her side of the story. Especially after she immediately targeted his brother as her next victim. Why have her hook up with Havok of all people? She was a trap people get over it.

It’s interesting that some people accept that Jean was brought back from the dead, that a hero with principles (Scott) could leave his wife and newborn baby, but they won’t accept that Madelyne was a trap created by Mr Sinister.

It’s pointless to argue this. It’s better to either admit that you hate Cyclops and you will use this as a reason or try to be reasonable and see this as a comic book filled with twists, retcons and Deus ex machinas.

[Hizashi]

Well after Maddie started sleeping with his brother Alex shit gets kind of hinkey. Why some people call Scott a deadbeat when he actually raised Nathan Christopher I'll never understand. People act like Scott never tried going back to Madelyn, hell he identified her dead body (another clone planted by Sinister).

It’s interesting that some people accept that Jean was brought back from the dead, that a hero with principles (Scott) could leave his wife and newborn baby, but they won’t accept that Madelyne was a trap created by Mr Sinister.

It’s pointless to argue this. It’s better to either admit that you hate Cyclops and you will use this as a reason or try to be reasonable and see this as a comic book filled with twists, retcons and Deus ex machinas.

Gentlemen, gentlemen! That's much too sensible, please, stop that at once.

X-Men Forever was meant to be how Claremont would've continued his run, right? Except giving him free reign seemed to hurt the book, it just became a standard alternate reality book.

[wano]

It’s interesting that some people accept that Jean was brought back from the dead, that a hero with principles (Scott) could leave his wife and newborn baby, but they won’t accept that Madelyne was a trap created by Mr Sinister.

It’s pointless to argue this. It’s better to either admit that you hate Cyclops and you will use this as a reason or try to be reasonable and see this as a comic book filled with twists, retcons and Deus ex machinas.

[oasis1313]

I don't think Claremont particularly enjoyed writing ANY male characters at all.

[SerCo]

It’s interesting that some people accept that Jean was brought back from the dead, that a hero with principles (Scott) could leave his wife and newborn baby, but they won’t accept that Madelyne was a trap created by Mr Sinister.

It’s pointless to argue this. It’s better to either admit that you hate Cyclops and you will use this as a reason or try to be reasonable and see this as a comic book filled with twists, retcons and Deus ex machinas.

To be fair the Madelyne/Sinister connection happened much later and was, in a way, a plot to justify Cyke's decisions and write Madelyne out of the books. I agree with the bolded part though, it's better to not think too much about it.

[spirit2011]

In your specific case, no.

But, I have been in arguments with Scemma shippers who think Scott was absolutely justified in cheating on Jean. I've also encountered fans who genuinely think turning Scott into a deadbeat dad and adulterer made him a better, more interesting, and more sympathetic character.
.

Funny thing Jean was the one with justification to do it

Thank you. I enjoy Jott, and even if I don't like how it started, I also enjoy Scemma. Scott wasn't justified in cheating on Jean - but I do believe it's more complex than he's simply a bad person. And while I think Jean played a role in it's inception (at least, that's how I read Morrison's run), there can be no doubt that Scott is the most responsible for it. As far as Scott becoming better for how he treated Maddie and Jean - no. I disagree, but that happened before my time. I was six-years-old when Morrison began his run on New X-Men, but I don't think it makes him better. I can maybe see how it would make him more sympathetic, but not better.

.

I don't know what Jean made that she was responsible, she was there for Scott but Scott wasn't there for her.

If it wa only on Jean, but he did the same on Maddie. There is some pattern that only his feelings matter and screw over his partners

[Hizashi]

To be fair the Madelyne/Sinister connection happened much later and was, in a way, a plot to justify Cyke's decisions and write Madelyne out of the books. I agree with the bolded part though, it's better to not think too much about it.

Seems like Marvel was being impatient and lacked foresight.

[Wiccan]

Tbh I think Claremont himself has some blame on this too. I mean, he was the one who thought quickly marrying Scott with someone who looked exactly like Jean(and already seemed to have some connection to her, with the whole thing about her plane crashing on the same time as Jean's death) was a good idea.

[Hizashi]

Funny thing Jean was the one with justification to do it

Well, I don't think there's ever really any justification to cheat, regardless of who's doing it or why.

I don't know what Jean made that she was responsible, she was there for Scott but Scott wasn't there for her.

If it wa only on Jean, but he did the same on Maddie. There is some pattern that only his feelings matter and screw over his partners

Friend, you and I have been down this road before, regarding Jean and Scott and Emma, and I don't think we'll see eye to eye.

As far as Scott's treatment of Jean and Maddie, as others have pointed out, why doesn't Scott get the benefit of editorial mandates, deus ex machinas, and retcons as a defense in this regard?

[wano]

Tbh I think Claremont himself has some blame on this too. I mean, he was the one who thought quickly marrying Scott with someone who looked exactly like Jean(and already seemed to have some connection to her, with the whole thing about her plane crashing on the same time as Jean's death) was a good idea.

He wanted to get rid of Cyclops, leave no possibility of his return and everything else be dammed. So he got what he asked for and is still salty about the result

[Xaviers Dream]

No, he wanted to do to Cyclops what he did with Banshee, Angel, and Havok among others. He wanted to set them aside and be able to use them whenever he wanted to later. It is not really an issue of having Scott get married and having a kid, but that fix that the Editor wanted to put Scott back in a relationship with Jean. He could have come back for X-Factor without leaving his wife.