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  1. #61
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    Quote Originally Posted by Michael Watkins View Post
    It was messed up to marry Scott to a lesser version of Jean, in the first place. She was a really normal woman. Scott was groomed to lead the X-Men. How was this going to work?
    It wasn't.

    The only way Scott/Madelyne was going to work was if she turned out to be Jean.

  2. #62

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    Quote Originally Posted by FUBAR007 View Post
    The problem is that was the point of Cyclops's character: a damaged orphan with a brutal past who, under Xavier's tutelage, became a cool, confident leader, a hero, and a mature, level-headed man. He was Xavier's great success story.

    Then, the Madelyne Pryor mess came along and exploded all of that.

    Simonson and, later, Lobdell and Nicieza spent almost a decade altogether rebuilding his character.

    Then, Grant Morrison came along and exploded all of that.

    And, so it goes...
    Diminishing returns.... :/
    Let the flames destroy all but that which is pure and true!

  3. #63
    Astonishing Member wano's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by FUBAR007 View Post
    It wasn't.

    The only way Scott/Madelyne was going to work was if she turned out to be Jean.
    I'm surprised nobody even bothered to ask Cyclops if he's marrying maddy because he loved her or because she's a Jean look alike (or they did?). Because that's the sane thing to do

  4. #64
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    Quote Originally Posted by spirit2011 View Post
    I wonder how Scott cheating on Jean with Emma impacted Claremont dislike of the character
    It came up in a podcast interview with him and Louise Simonson a while back. While I don't recall them discussing Scemma at length, the tone of Claremont's voice suggested it only reinforced his dislike of Cyclops.

  5. #65

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    Quote Originally Posted by FUBAR007 View Post
    Not quite. The only part of his original plans that made it into X-Men Forever was Jean dumping Scott for Logan.

    His original plans, had he stayed in 1991, involved building up to a final showdown with the Shadow King in Uncanny #300. Xavier would die in the battle, and Magneto would take over as leader of the X-Men.
    Yeah, by the time Claremont got to do Forever, Marvel had already used a lot of his ideas already(Wolverine:Enemy of the State is straight up from his gamebook of Logan being killed and resurrected by the Hand as a mind-controlled killer, for example). I don't think it was truly a reflection of what would have been had Harras not booted him decades before.
    Let the flames destroy all but that which is pure and true!

  6. #66
    Extraordinary Member Havok83's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by FUBAR007 View Post
    It wasn't.

    The only way Scott/Madelyne was going to work was if she turned out to be Jean.
    Had Jean not returned in X-Factor, I wonder if they eventually would have revealed that Maddie was in fact Jean reborn

  7. #67

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    Quote Originally Posted by wano View Post
    I'm surprised nobody even bothered to ask Cyclops if he's marrying maddy because he loved her or because she's a Jean look alike (or they did?). Because that's the sane thing to do
    Many did. I think he brought her to the Logan wedding in the 170's and everyone was like....uh, why does this bitch look and sound just like Jean? Then Scott married her a couple issues later. Big boys make their own choices... friends can't dictate their friend's love lives like that.
    Let the flames destroy all but that which is pure and true!

  8. #68
    Astonishing Member spirit2011's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by FUBAR007 View Post
    It came up in a podcast interview with him and Louise Simonson a while back. While I don't recall them discussing Scemma at length, the tone of Claremont's voice suggested it only reinforced his dislike of Cyclops.
    It probably will make him feel like it was for all retcons and character assassinations fornothing. Well it really was.
    I think people could even look away a bit because we all know Jean was the love of his life. So he going to see her is a bit understable.
    But them later he just cheating on Jean is impossible to excuse. He just did the same thing he did with Maddie and that Claremont reinforced.

  9. #69
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    Quote Originally Posted by FUBAR007 View Post
    It came up in a podcast interview with him and Louise Simonson a while back. While I don't recall them discussing Scemma at length, the tone of Claremont's voice suggested it only reinforced his dislike of Cyclops.
    IIRC he jokingly refered to Scott and Emma as true love based on mind control or something like that. Would have to listen to it again but I remember laughter. I got the impression he prefers Scott to be with anybody except Jean.

  10. #70
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    I don't think Claremont hates Cyclops, but as some have pointed out, these characters were real to him and I don't think he could process the disconnect between the Cyclops he wrote for so many years and what was happening with the breakup.

    That said, he actually did come up with a retcon - Sinister's imprinting at the orphanage - that offers an explanation, if not an excuse. But because it was his own retcon, I don't think he ever bought it.

    And for all the talk that he didn't want to share, he was the one who tried to keep the X-universe together by tying into Morrison's run, or later, like in #460, trying to make sense of Enemy of the State, Whedon's run, etc. In X-Men the End, he even incorporated elements of Chuck Austen.

  11. #71
    Extraordinary Member Havok83's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by yogaflame View Post
    Many did. I think he brought her to the Logan wedding in the 170's and everyone was like....uh, why does this bitch look and sound just like Jean? Then Scott married her a couple issues later. Big boys make their own choices... friends can't dictate their friend's love lives like that.
    He was only dating her at Logan's wedding and people didnt know how serious it was (which it wasnt bc they had only known each other a few issues). I thnik the point wano was making was why said conversation didnt happen when he decided to marry her bc at that point he was making a permanent commitment to her. My guess is that it happenned so fast that we can only hope it happened off panel but CLaremont didnt really address it

  12. #72
    Mighty Member WheelchairX's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by yogaflame View Post
    Yeah, by the time Claremont got to do Forever, Marvel had already used a lot of his ideas already(Wolverine:Enemy of the State is straight up from his gamebook of Logan being killed and resurrected by the Hand as a mind-controlled killer, for example). I don't think it was truly a reflection of what would have been had Harras not booted him decades before.
    Wasn't this Claremont original idea for Uncanny X-Men #281 onwards being resolved in #300? I'm pretty sure Marvel claimed that Enemy of the State was entirely conincdental. Huh, could of fooled me
    My Favourite Quotes:

    Emma/Kitty: "This children, is Kitty Pryde, who apparently feels the need to make a grand entrance/I'm sorry. I was busy remembering to put on all my clothes/So gushingly glad you could join us"

    Emma: "I love what you've done with the place, Kitty. It's like every thirteen year-old girl's dream. Where do you keep the unicorns? And, oh look, a redhead. How novel"

    Psylocke: "If you don't get that glass out of my face, I'm going to jam it sideways straight up your bum"

  13. #73
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    Quote Originally Posted by wano View Post
    I'm surprised nobody even bothered to ask Cyclops if he's marrying maddy because he loved her or because she's a Jean look alike (or they did?). Because that's the sane thing to do
    It was a major plot point of the original Madelyne Pryor story arc (Uncanny #168-176). If memory serves, Scott tells Maddie about Jean, including showing a picture, in the same story where he reveals to her he's a mutant. They mutually decide to move forward with their relationship anyway.

    A couple of issues later, after trying to investigate her background and finding out she doesn't have one, he point blank asks her if she is Jean. She responds by decking him. From there, they immediately get pulled into a plot involving Mastermind who wants revenge on Cyke. The X-Men defeat Mastermind, Scott rescues Madelyne, and then they get married. Just before the wedding, Scott gives a monologue over Jean's grave claiming that he's moved on and that he loves Madelyne for her, not because of how she looks and sounds like Jean.

    YMMV as to whether you buy it as a reader. I never did.

  14. #74
    Extraordinary Member Havok83's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by FUBAR007 View Post
    It was a major plot point of the original Madelyne Pryor story arc (Uncanny #168-176). If memory serves, Scott tells Maddie about Jean, including showing a picture, in the same story where he reveals to her he's a mutant. They mutually decide to move forward with their relationship anyway.

    A couple of issues later, after trying to investigate her background and finding out she doesn't have one, he point blank asks her if she is Jean. She responds by decking him. From there, they immediately get pulled into a plot involving Mastermind who wants revenge on Cyke. The X-Men defeat Mastermind, Scott rescues Madelyne, and then they get married. Just before the wedding, Scott gives a monologue over Jean's grave claiming that he's moved on and that he loves Madelyne for her, not because of how she looks and sounds like Jean.

    YMMV as to whether you buy it as a reader. I never did.
    but that was something isolated to Scott and Maddie. You didnt have Beast, Storm, Alex, etcc.. goin what the hell dude? None of them called him out on that bc that would have made more sense than isolating the conflict to just those two.

  15. #75
    Astonishing Member Vegan Daddy's Avatar
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    Everybody has their 'I hate Cyclops' phase.

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