Did Chris Claremont hate cyclops?

[Havok83]

The orphanage, yes, but not the Sinister part. Not sure if Simonson or Claremont did the heavy lifting with that, though?

Growing up in an orphanage is rather generic and doesnt make for an interesting backstory. Its the Sinister bit that adds layers and that didnt come until over a decade after Claremont got Scott in UXM 94

[Hizashi]

Exactly. I remember Claremont explained in an interview that he didn't see the X-Men as essentially professional superheroes. They were required to fight to protect mutantkind. The school was a school, not a superhero training facility. Eventually he thought all of the X-Men would want to retire, or go back to their lives. The problem is us fans don't want to lose them.

Does that make us their greatest enemies?

[ClanAskani]

Does that make us their greatest enemies?

LOL. Probably. Editors probably don't want to risk changing the roster. And now new writers come in and want to use their favorite characters. Or when writers create new characters, fans hate on them.

But Claremont did change his roster far more than writers nowadays do. He had characters come in and out or catch up with them in a few pages. That rarely happens now. Arcs are hyper-focused on a specific team and there aren't slowly progressing stories which take up a few pages of 12+ issues. So, I'm not sure Claremont technically saw X-Men retiring as writing them out completely.

[yogaflame]

Growing up in an orphanage is rather generic and doesnt make for an interesting backstory. Its the Sinister bit that adds layers and that didnt come until over a decade after Claremont got Scott in UXM 94

Jack O'Diamond was an interesting backstory element for Scott that was in the original O5 era(and is all kinds of Freudian goodness when you consider Scott's relationship with diamond-skinned, telepathic Emma....).

Sinister didn't debut until the post 200's of Uncanny. I'm just not sure if it was Claremont or Simonson who did the heavy lifting when it comes to tying Sinister to Scott's Nebraska orphanage. I know they both wrote issues concerning that around Inferno.

[yogaflame]

how can anyone who grew up at an orphanage run by Mister Sinister be considered to be boring? Christ, what must you think of the other original 5?

Well, they are called the BOre 5 for a reason. Reading through their original run was excruciating; it's no wonder the series was semi-cancelled!

[yogaflame]

LOL. Probably. Editors probably don't want to risk changing the roster. And now new writers come in and want to use their favorite characters. Or when writers create new characters, fans hate on them.

But Claremont did change his roster far more than writers nowadays do. He had characters come in and out or catch up with them in a few pages. That rarely happens now. Arcs are hyper-focused on a specific team and there aren't slowly progressing stories which take up a few pages of 12+ issues. So, I'm not sure Claremont technically saw X-Men retiring as writing them out completely.

Everything is so decompressed now, there's no room to actually develop multiple characters in an issue anymore. One Claremont issue is equivalent to like, 10 modern issues!

[CuteClops]

As I said, Cyclops should have committed genocide. The hatred against him wouldn't exist.

And I'm sure Matt Murdock is very hated for cheating on two wives.

[LP22]

Yes like everyone are mad at wolverine in the movies for going after another man's fiance..

[Michael Watkins]

Growing up in an orphanage is rather generic and doesnt make for an interesting backstory. Its the Sinister bit that adds layers and that didnt come until over a decade after Claremont got Scott in UXM 94

that makes it seem like Claremont, if he did hate Cyclops, was being incredibly short-sighted. he was a character that he could be anything he wanted him to be. after what he did with Magneto, I would think that he'd see the same potential in Scott.

[yogaflame]

that makes it seem like Claremont, if he did hate Cyclops, was being incredibly short-sighted. he was a character that he could be anything he wanted him to be. after what he did with Magneto, I would think that he'd see the same potential in Scott.

I'm confused. What did you want? Claremont took a repressed guy who didn't really embrace his feelings for Jean for like, 50 some issues, and wrote him and Jean into the greatest love story in superhero comics, while making him an incredibly adept leader to a team of (in some cases, like Logan and Sean, vastly more experienced) new characters. Then editorial stole him for X-Factor.

[Michael Watkins]

I'm confused. What did you want? Claremont took a repressed guy who didn't really embrace his feelings for Jean for like, 50 some issues, and wrote him and Jean into the greatest love story in superhero comics, while making him an incredibly adept leader to a team of (in some cases, like Logan and Sean, vastly more experienced) new characters. Then editorial stole him for X-Factor.

you must have missed my first post. the thread made the assumption that Claremont hated the character. I never said that I thought that he did. I'm responding to people saying that it makes sense for Claremont to hate him because of this or that reason.

[yogaflame]

you must have missed my first post. the thread made the assumption that Claremont hated the character. I never said that I thought that he did. I'm responding to people saying that it makes sense for Claremont to hate him because of this or that reason.

Hmm, maybe I did miss something. But Claremont can't be expected to turn every little scrap of straw into gold. His work on Magneto was remarkable, but he didn't revolutionize Charles, Warren, Hank, or Bobby either. Magneto and Jean were elevated the highest, from the O5 cast, for sure, but other than Bobby, Claremont was pretty good at the rest of them, overall. (Lorna certainly got the shit end of the stick....lol, but to be fair she was the last one to the party anyways, and was mind-controlled in her original presentation anyways...)

[wano]

I'm confused. What did you want? Claremont took a repressed guy who didn't really embrace his feelings for Jean for like, 50 some issues, and wrote him and Jean into the greatest love story in superhero comics, while making him an incredibly adept leader to a team of (in some cases, like Logan and Sean, vastly more experienced) new characters. Then editorial stole him for X-Factor.

He got rid of cyclops, he wasn't stolen, and he's to naive to think somebody else wouldn't want to us him

[Starrius]

She not only looked exactly like Jean, she sounded like her, too. There's a bit in one story where Rachel calls Scott, hears Madelyne talking in the background, and assumes it's Jean.

Lilandra was about to attack Madelyne because she thought she was Jean because she looked exactly like her.

[Havok83]

He got rid of cyclops, he wasn't stolen, and he's to naive to think somebody else wouldn't want to us him

He didnt feel he got rid of Scott because he kept him around as a recurring character. He still kept appearing in the book long after he had retired. Once X-Factor was a thing, Claremont no longer could control Scott's narrative and had no access to him beyond crossovers. He was bitter about that