Could Shang Chi have been a better Iron Fist than Danny Rand?

[Michael Watkins]

people are asking

[Dragonick]

Correct me if I'm wrong but, isn't Shang the best martial artist in terms of pure skill in the MU? If so I'd assume you'd want the person with the most skill to be Iron Fist.

[nnelg]

No.........

[the illustrious mr. kenway]

He might have been better for the Defenders instead of Iron fist because he requires less special effects and more of a blank canvas as a character so you could had mold him how you want. You could have had him be an ex-member of the Hand and that would have given you a chance to make the Hand less of a vague threat. His backstory is his dad is an international criminal mastermind so you could just fold that into the Hand's inner circle.

If you were really bold you could have made his mom Madame gao because her whole schtick is to be everybody's evil grandma. Literally that is the subtext btw her and Kingpin as well her and Danny.

In the canon he wouldn't have an interesting conflict like Danny or Pei so it wouldn't be as appealing to me. He would be K'un L'un safe choice like a good version of Davos.

But you could make him a different weapon like Dog Brother or the Prince of Orphans and that would be a more practical choice to me. The Prince isn't always on the up and up so you could reuse my Hand pitch.

The dog brother is considered the patron saint of orphans making him a good counterpoint to Shang-chi's father who trained orphans to be assasins.

[CaptCleghorn]

Squirrel Girl would be the greatest Iron Fist ever.

[Wiccan]

Yes, despite the push he's been getting with the tv show, Danny hasn't been resonating with the fans. Now with the Avengers 123809234210 B.C, they should make a story where Shang Chi gets inspired by the original Iron Fist and takes the mantle.

[Michael Watkins]

Correct me if I'm wrong but, isn't Shang the best martial artist in terms of pure skill in the MU? If so I'd assume you'd want the person with the most skill to be Iron Fist.

that would be the assumption, yes.

[the illustrious mr. kenway]

people are asking

In live action he'd be a better replacement because he has less special effects heavy and more of a blank canvas so you can mold him however you want. Just make his father apart of the Hand's inner circle and your golden.

In comics unless he absorbs the dragon's chi like Pei did he would have to go through the same trials that Danny did. Lei kung is more likely to train him as a child so you would have to set that up. He spends the next ten years training to fight shou-lao, wins the right to face him, wins the actual fight and absorbs the chi. He would later leave K'un l'un to go stop his father.

He'd probably be like Quake, a super powered spy.

He'd be better as Iron Fist because he'd have a larger scale of threats and a wider range of skills to use against.

[Michael Watkins]

In live action he'd be a better replacement because he has less special effects heavy and more of a blank canvas so you can mold him however you want. Just make his father apart of the Hand's inner circle and your golden.

In comics unless he absorbs the dragon's chi like Pei did he would have to go through the same trials that Danny did. Lei kung is more likely to train him as a child so you would have to set that up. He spends the next ten years training to fight shou-lao, wins the right to face him, wins the actual fight and absorbs the chi. He would later leave K'un l'un to go stop his father.

but what if he's a better fighter than Lei Kung?

[the illustrious mr. kenway]

but what if he's a better fighter than Lei Kung?

As an adult he wouldn't be allowed to take the trials so Lei kung wouldn't care. Even thought Danny and Orson were outsiders they were still children raised in the monasteries of K'un L'un.

Technically Wendell was allowed as a teenager but that was because Lei Kung recognized Orson's teachings.

[Michael Watkins]

As an adult he wouldn't be allowed to take the trials so Lei kung wouldn't care. Even thought Danny and Orson were outsiders they were still children raised in the monasteries of K'un L'un.

Technically Wendell was allowed as a teenager but that was because Lei Kung recognized Orson's teachings.

theoretically, he'd recognize Shang Chi's teachings, as well. he has no doubt incorporated what he's learned sparring with Danny. I'm not even sure what the difference between kung fu and Kunlun style really is. the Immortal Weapons seem to have a wide variety of styles and weaponry.

[the illustrious mr. kenway]

theoretically, he'd recognize Shang Chi's teachings, as well. he has no doubt incorporated what he's learned sparring with Danny. I'm not even sure what the difference between kung fu and Kunlun style really is. the Immortal Weapons seem to have a wide variety of styles and weaponry.

Until we get someone who does martial arts we were not get that conversation in full. Maybe the guys who did Avatar the last airbender can write an Iron Fist title? When doing the show they consulted with a real Sifu to form the bending styles and each style is based on an actual martial art.

Until Danny dies there isn't a need for another Iron Fist nor do they actually have the power to make one. That come from Shou-lao himself so with him reincarnating into another dragon Lei kung can't actually give Shang-Chi powers. Besides Lei kung still would't allow him to undergo the trials because he is an adult outsider and the people of k'un l'un wouldn't trust him to be it. They barely trust Danny and orson and they grew up there.

[Tien Long]

it's 'advice.' and I didn't put any restrictions on the thread or premise. because I didn't care about the outcome.

Without parameters, there are a number of ways that the subject can be interpreted.

For instance, what if an untrained Shang-Chi arrived at K'un Lun just around the same time as Danny? In terms of skills, they would be on equal footing, no? And thus Shang-Chi would not be better in the martial arts than Danny. Still, I could see the two having had a rivalry, with Shang motivated to be a perfect weapon for his father and Danny motivated to seek vengeance for his parents. That would make for an interesting story.

What if Shang-Chi were to take over the Iron Fist title? Perhaps in this scenario Danny would have given the title to Shang and then Danny would become the new Yu-Ti in K'un Lun. With Danny out of the way, Shang-Chi with the Iron Fist would be THE premiere martial artist in the Marvel Universe. There would be a huge target on his back and he'd have to contend with challenges from martial artists, tough guys, and psychopaths like Mr. X, Bullseye, Zaran, Batroc, and others. Not to mention that he'd have the responsibilities towards K'un Lun as well as fighting against the evil plots of his father.

The only thing I could say to that is that Shang could have some very, very interesting possibilities with the iron fist indeed .

[DragonsChi]

Without parameters, there are a number of ways that the subject can be interpreted.

For instance, what if an untrained Shang-Chi arrived at K'un Lun just around the same time as Danny? In terms of skills, they would be on equal footing, no? And thus Shang-Chi would not be better in the martial arts than Danny. Still, I could see the two having had a rivalry, with Shang motivated to be a perfect weapon for his father and Danny motivated to seek vengeance for his parents. That would make for an interesting story.

What if Shang-Chi were to take over the Iron Fist title? Perhaps in this scenario Danny would have given the title to Shang and then Danny would become the new Yu-Ti in K'un Lun. With Danny out of the way, Shang-Chi with the Iron Fist would be THE premiere martial artist in the Marvel Universe. There would be a huge target on his back and he'd have to contend with challenges from martial artists, tough guys, and psychopaths like Mr. X, Bullseye, Zaran, Batroc, and others. Not to mention that he'd have the responsibilities towards K'un Lun as well as fighting against the evil plots of his father.

The only thing I could say to that is that Shang could have some very, very interesting possibilities with the iron fist indeed .

Long gets it. Thank you Long for expanding on that thought more. You observations are always welcomed.

To stay in the confines of the thread....

Danny being trained in K'un L'un and defeating Shao is the reason I think Danny is really the better martial artist of the two. Danny's training and techniques are literally not of this world, with K'un L'un residing in another dimension. While Shang could know or observed multiple martial arts on Earth, I have always felt that K'un L'un kung-fu would have noticeable difference then what even the greatest combatants have seen. Which would in return give Danny more of an edge since information has never been an issue coming into K'un L'un opposed to it getting out.

Then there is the fact that Danny trained most of his life to best a dragon. Let me write that again a DRAGON. With nothing but his bare hands. While Shang is a skilled warrior and probably only a notch below Danny he has never defeated a dragon, at least as far as I know. While Danny has done it 2-3 times now.

Now just because you have more "skill" then someone does not mean you are guaranteed a win in a match however. A lot more things come into play then just "skill" when you are in a sparring match or even actual combat. Shang, for instance is a cunning spy who uses his cleverness along with his skill to overcome threats and any obstacles he faces. Due to Shang's own personal confidence in himself along with his will pulls him out and a head of most situations.

Danny on the other hand heavily relies on his training and the teachings he learned in K'un L'un. As the champion of K'un L'un he has been taught since childhood that the duty of Iron Fist is to his/her people and everything else after. So while Shang strength tends to reside in the belief of himself Danny is more so his belief of others or the needs of others. Danny pulls through more battles when something or someone is at stake. In return it tends to make Danny more light hearted since his strength is derived from others.


When compared together I always feel that it is important to consider that Shang's confidence in himself is why in any match he engages in he probably would be more serious and out to win it. Since confidence is such a fickle thing to begin with it would be important for Shang to maintain his self image at all times. Shang has no iron fist to fall back on so if Shang looses it could very well put him in a state of self doubt that would weaken the mental strength he needs to play in the same sand box as the Avengers on a regular bases.

Danny, on the other hand, when engaging in sparring matches or battle against friends tends to hold back and not bring the same level of intensity that he does when facing villains or trying to save the world in general. Mostly because he has nothing to loose in those situations. Danny has already defeated his dragon, he has claimed and earned his powers, and he is a champion of a people. Which is why in most settings with characters Danny is close to he is more whimsical and laid back. Danny does have the warrior instinct to win like Shang but if no one is endanger Danny in most cases would not tap into it.

I say all of that to say this....in most sparing matches Shang may beat Danny just due to their individual characteristics. However, in a battle to the death or a match where others depended on the outcome Danny would take most of those.

[Triniking1234]

The title played tricks on my eyes at first...

In order to inherit the Iron Fist title Shang-Chi would've had to go through the same training as Danny did and most people would consider the K'un Lun arts inferior to whatever Shang Chi knows.

Also if the Iron Fist powers and title passed to Shang Chi it would just be a minor power boost. He might finally be able to beat Spider-Man, the strongest hero in the Marvel Universe.