Which superheroes could do Batman's job?

[Pendaran]

What's Batman's job?

If you have reached a point where you are trying to claim that doing Batman's job should not involve having to deal with Batman's rogues so you can either state the thread premise is unfair, or talk about how people can "do Batman's job" as long as they don't have to deal with various of Batman's actual villains, then that is I think the most defining statement on these threads and the posts that tend to happen in them, and the reasons why people make them, in the entire history of these threads.

Do you really feel that "dealing with Batman's villain roster and the things they get up to" is not a part of Batman's job? If it is, and the people you want to say can handle it, do not have the capacity to handle that, then they can't do Batman's job.

That's really pretty simple.

So let's start with this. Why do you think all the people with wildly inferior detective abilities to Batman can handle Batman's rogues gallery with a similar level of effectiveness? Or the people who are simply nowhere as intelligent as the guy, period.

I've made my case for Nick Fury for example. He's amongst the greatest spies in comics, and capable besides of creating and running whole advanced spy networks, sometimes basically out of his ass, in relatively short periods of time. Those two qualities will let him compensate for a lot of crap he otherwise lacks in tracking and uncovering crap.

[The Drunkard Kid]

I think Batman could probably do it. But only barely.

[Pendaran]

I don't know man, Batman is pretty overhyped, Batman should be able to do his job just fine. I mean what even is Batman's job? It's comics, anyone will be written as being able to ultimately do Batman's job somehow, even someone like Batman.

[The MunchKING]

It said "what Superheroes can do Batman's job" so obviously we need a team up!! Detective Chimp can handle the detective bits, while... I dunno, Luke Cage to handle the punching people in the face and rescuing people and such.

[Pendaran]

Cage doesn't get his superpowers, but as long as Chimp can arrange it such that everyone owes the guy 200 dollars or more, they'll be fine.

[Alan2099]

What's Batman's job?

... why do i suddenly picture Batman having to hold down a minimum wage job at a local gas station or convenience store?

[byc]

If you have reached a point where you are trying to claim that doing Batman's job should not involve having to deal with Batman's rogues so you can either state the thread premise is unfair, or talk about how people can "do Batman's job" as long as they don't have to deal with various of Batman's actual villains, then that is I think the most defining statement on these threads and the posts that tend to happen in them, and the reasons why people make them, in the entire history of these threads.

Do you really feel that "dealing with Batman's villain roster and the things they get up to" is not a part of Batman's job? If it is, and the people you want to say can handle it, do not have the capacity to handle that, then they can't do Batman's job.

That's really pretty simple.

So let's start with this. Why do you think all the people with wildly inferior detective abilities to Batman can handle Batman's rogues gallery with a similar level of effectiveness? Or the people who are simply nowhere as intelligent as the guy, period.

I've made my case for Nick Fury for example. He's amongst the greatest spies in comics, and capable besides of creating and running whole advanced spy networks, sometimes basically out of his ass, in relatively short periods of time. Those two qualities will let him compensate for a lot of crap he otherwise lacks in tracking and uncovering crap.

That's not what I mean at all. I mean as with any job or task there is a goal and/or a definition of it. Batman's job is certainly to deal with supervillains. But we don't know what the acceptable losses and failure ratio is for him to be considered a failure. Like if Superman fails to save Earth from an asteroid, he failed. Batman is small in scale, but the same applies. Is his failure tolerance at losing even 1 life, or more lives? If he stops Joker from kill everybody in Gotham, but 1000 still dies is that a failure or not? I would then apply that to other heroes trying in this scenario.

What I thought, and didn't put in my first post (but I did in my later posts), is that I thought this was a no-win in the first place. Because only Batman has the skills. And then I thought about it some more. I didn't think Batman's villains were that great at prep and planning, hence why I determined physical challenge should be enough. I looked at it from real world perceptive, which is often reactionary. If there's a bank robbery, that's can be handled. Even some of the plotting the subs can figure out, often his villains leave an obvious clue tracing it back. And then the subs can backtrace it to somebody who can spill the beans and such. Those things aren't exclusive to Batman, even if others have weaker detective skills.

I don't really know of the really crazy plots that Ra's or Joker has thought of, so I wouldn't think to figure out who can figure them out. Does Tower of Babel count as one of them? Hush for example, wasn't some crazy plot only Batman could figure out. It did help that only Batman knew the person that was setting it all up however.

I don't know enough about Fury to determine if he can do it or not.

I thought that Tony Stark can figure out the mental parts even if he can't upgrade tech. He'll just do it the Stark way. Probably throw cameras and surveillance everywhere, chase villain down in Batmobile, use tech to win, and pose in the Bat suit. If Batman doesn't have droids or robots, I guess that doesn't work.

[Blackid]

I'm sorry but I do understand what byc is trying to say. In looking at who could be batman in batman's place, how many similar factors/characteristics should we include? Detective skills isn't just it, Fighting skills isn't just it, person must have a brooding nature? Violent but not Murderous personality? Of course no powers but high level of intelligence? CBPH strength of course. Male only or both Male or Female?

If we blend all that together how many characters can match that persona?

@Pendaran you said Nick Fury was a great possibility. I know Moon Knight was more Violent AND Murderous but would he fit pretty good? Who else can fit this type?

[MorphyVSFischer]

I'm sorry but I do understand what byc is trying to say. In looking at who could be batman in batman's place, how many similar factors/characteristics should we include? Detective skills isn't just it, Fighting skills isn't just it, person must have a brooding nature? Violent but not Murderous personality? Of course no powers but high level of intelligence? CBPH strength of course. Male only or both Male or Female?

If we blend all that together how many characters can match that persona?

@Pendaran you said Nick Fury was a great possibility. I know Moon Knight was more Violent AND Murderous but would he fit pretty good? Who else can fit this type?

Moon Knight has come up before, the ultimate problem being he just isn't the detective Batman is. He might be able to stop Joker with a way larger body count but again Ra's.
Also you people are over thinking this. It isn't who can be as much like batman it's who can do his job in Gotham as well as he can. Presumably the city still needs to be there, which is where Ra's comes in.

[MorphyVSFischer]

I fully believe Wonder Woman sans powers can handle the physical tasks that Batman does. I didn't mis-read anything.

Then you're crazy. Wonder Woman's pure hand to hand feats are no where close to Batman's, and there is no way she's taking out someone like Prometheus or Deadshot.

[Pendaran]

That's not what I mean at all. I mean as with any job or task there is a goal and/or a definition of it. Batman's job is certainly to deal with supervillains. But we don't know what the acceptable losses and failure ratio is for him to be considered a failure. Like if Superman fails to save Earth from an asteroid, he failed. Batman is small in scale, but the same applies. Is his failure tolerance at losing even 1 life, or more lives? If he stops Joker from kill everybody in Gotham, but 1000 still dies is that a failure or not? I would then apply that to other heroes trying in this scenario.

If they cannot stop a Bat villain at what they are trying to do with anything close to the effectiveness Batman could do as regards said villain and the results Batman manages to get while doing so as far as lives saved, plots stopped, so forth, whatever their method in his place, then they can't do Batman's job. What they can do is "be vastly less competent at Batman's job such that far more people die than if Batman himself were involved" to "the entire city dies" to "various crimes go unstopped" to "serial killers who specialize in almost random seeming shadowy serial killer murder basically do their thing without being interrupted."

What I thought, and didn't put in my first post (but I did in my later posts), is that I thought this was a no-win in the first place. Because only Batman has the skills. And then I thought about it some more. I didn't think Batman's villains were that great at prep and planning, hence why I determined physical challenge should be enough. I looked at it from real world perceptive, which is often reactionary. If there's a bank robbery, that's can be handled. Even some of the plotting the subs can figure out, often his villains leave an obvious clue tracing it back. And then the subs can backtrace it to somebody who can spill the beans and such. Those things aren't exclusive to Batman, even if others have weaker detective skills.

A whack of Batman's villains are thinker type villains who operate on a level of intellect, strategy and capacity that intersect poorly with the capacity of the real world. Your argument is now basically "I'm going to ignore what they are capable of in comics and say 'because reality'" You are one Punisher/"people willing to kill" short of totally completing "Rumbles Batman thread bingo" as we have reached "they're as capable as real world criminals." as far as this thread largely being about "I wanted a venue for getting to talk about Batman being overrated."

While we're on real world criminals though, how long did it take to catch Osama Bin Laden? Radovan Karadzic? Ratko Mladic? I'm being unfair, those are international figures, and that would only apply to Ra's, Talia, and ugh, the terrible Black Glove people. Let's go local. How about the Zodiac Kill- whoops, no one ever caught him, and he sent taunting letters to newspapers.

And then I thought about it some more. I didn't think Batman's villains were that great at prep and planning, hence why I determined physical challenge should be enough.

All of Zsasz one arranged to be able to commit his crimes, while otherwise seeming to be incarcerated while committing them. (I say "all of Zsasz", but when the crazy in his head doesn't put him into straight spree mode, he is actually high cunning as far as shadow murders like that, being that what he normally does is clandestine shadow killing serial murder).

And yes, I get that you want to now say "doing Batman's job" means "not having to do anything but fight dudes directly".

I thought that Tony Stark can figure out the mental parts even if he can't upgrade tech. He'll just do it the Stark way. Probably throw cameras and surveillance everywhere, chase villain down in Batmobile, use tech to win, and pose in the Bat suit. If Batman doesn't have droids or robots, I guess that doesn't work.

He doesn't have droids or robots to any notable degree.

[Pendaran]

I'm sorry but I do understand what byc is trying to say. In looking at who could be batman in batman's place, how many similar factors/characteristics should we include? Detective skills isn't just it, Fighting skills isn't just it, person must have a brooding nature? Violent but not Murderous personality? Of course no powers but high level of intelligence? CBPH strength of course. Male only or both Male or Female?

If we blend all that together how many characters can match that persona?

@Pendaran you said Nick Fury was a great possibility. I know Moon Knight was more Violent AND Murderous but would he fit pretty good? Who else can fit this type?

Moon Knight is ultimately not the detective Batman is. Nor is he particularly great at infiltrating the underworld and developing a frankly wide spanning beyond the city web of contacts and informants and the like.

Now, if you had Moon Knight /and/ the Shroud, who could bolster each other as detectives, and the Shroud being top shelf at gulling the criminal world of things, different story. (yes, the Shroud would not get his darkforce powers here. He's decently capable without them).

[byc]

Then you're crazy. Wonder Woman's pure hand to hand feats are no where close to Batman's, and there is no way she's taking out someone like Prometheus or Deadshot.

I'm crazy to think that WW, while blind, was able to spar and take down the JLA? Granted, post-Crisis.

[Pendaran]

I'm crazy to think that WW, while blind, was able to spar and take down the JLA? Granted, post-Crisis.

The JLA having included Wally West? Feeling Batman is overrated is poorly compensated for by doing the same to other characters.

Of curiosity, who else in the JLA did she "take down" there?

[byc]

A whack of Batman's villains are thinker type villains who operate on a level of intellect, strategy and capacity that intersect poorly with the capacity of the real world. Your argument is now basically "I'm going to ignore what they are capable of in comics and say 'because reality'" You are one Punisher/"people willing to kill" short of totally completing "Rumbles Batman thread bingo" as we have reached "they're as capable as real world criminals." as far as this thread largely being about "I wanted a venue for getting to talk about Batman being overrated."

While we're on real world criminals though, how long did it take to catch Osama Bin Laden? Radovan Karadzic? Ratko Mladic? I'm being unfair, those are international figures, and that would only apply to Ra's, Talia, and ugh, the terrible Black Glove people. Let's go local. How about the Zodiac Kill- whoops, no one ever caught him, and he sent taunting letters to newspapers.

That was only me stated my thinking process, not a debate of if I was right/wrong. My first instinct was actually correct, which is "only Batman can do it". My usual answer to these things is "only X can do it" because of how comics are written. And then I thought about it some more, and couldn't think of any good examples why Batman had to be one to solve things. But others think otherwise.

And yes, I get that you want to now say "doing Batman's job" means "not having to do anything but fight dudes directly".

I didn't even bring up Oracle, who doesn't exist currently. I swear for a while she was doing all the work, while he just punched dudes.