How would you make Green Lantern sell?

[WillieMorgan]

Not at all. I don't agree that Hal can't sell an Earth-based title and Guy can't sell a space-based title. If they can't, and if it's all about who's writing them, then why are we even talking about Green Lantern? Just go ahead and junk the property because it's not worth the hassle.

Yeah, I think that two titles like that should certainly be able to find a place in this turbulent market. I'd have the space-based title starring John as opposed to Guy but that's splitting hairs a little .

Hassle? I'm not sure that publishing Green Lantern comics should be regarded as a hassle. The hassle tends to emanate on fan sites like this where people overthink and obsess over things.

I have to go back to my original point on this. These titles are not a priority for DC right now. Look at how 'The Flash' is currently performing in comparison to the Venditti/Jensen run. It's got a better writer on it and has been important reading to fans that have been swept up in the Rebirth/The Button/Doomsday Clock storyline. Hence it's been a much more successful title. That's how you rejuvenate an underperforming series. You have to make fans care and make it almost compulsory for them pick up every month/couple of weeks.

[AquaLantern]

Nothing really unless they add Batman in front of the title.

Which would continue to prove that DC uses Batman as a crutch too damn much.

[The Dying Detective]

Which would continue to prove that DC uses Batman as a crutch too damn much.

One just needs to think about what are the merits of Green Lantern that would make him sell without needing a crutch.

[AngryComicBookNerd]

Yeah, I think that two titles like that should certainly be able to find a place in this turbulent market. I'd have the space-based title starring John as opposed to Guy but that's splitting hairs a little .

Hassle? I'm not sure that publishing Green Lantern comics should be regarded as a hassle. The hassle tends to emanate on fan sites like this where people overthink and obsess over things.

I have to go back to my original point on this. These titles are not a priority for DC right now. Look at how 'The Flash' is currently performing in comparison to the Venditti/Jensen run. It's got a better writer on it and has been important reading to fans that have been swept up in the Rebirth/The Button/Doomsday Clock storyline. Hence it's been a much more successful title. That's how you rejuvenate an underperforming series. You have to make fans care and make it almost compulsory for them pick up every month/couple of weeks.

The Flash deserves a tremendous amount of credit and should not be qualified by the Rebirth/Button tie ins. The storylines running through the book don't really have anything to do with any tie ins. If it got some extra eyes on it from Metal, it actually managed to keep them there with some good storytelling beyond. It even made me not hate NuWally so much. Go figure. Venditti's stories are so disposable. Everything takes 4- 5 issues, then it resets and goes onto something new as if the prior story is totally forgotten. Look at Barry & Iris. She kills Zoom and this turns into a subplot throughout the rest of the issues and continues. Barry does other things, but the issue with Iris is always right there. Hell, part of the reason I keep buying the comics is because I want to see where that goes. Contrast that with the Soranik story. She goes nuts, burns Kyle, then disappears. Since then, she's only mentioned in passing. There's not urgency for Kyle to track her down. There's not ongoing plot thread. It's just shelved. If I were hooked and wanted to see where that story goes, there's no reason to buy any GL books. I can just wait until it comes back around again. But by then, I might not give a schitt anymore. Even if this Zod story is the greatest thing ever written, once those 5 issues are done, reset and hope the next random encounter story is worth reading.

I say change is needed and Venditti has to move on. He's not going to get any better because being who he is is what got him here in the first place. He's the sole architect of the entire GL franchise. Why would he act like a hungry young writer with passion and take chances if he didn't have to?

[Johnny]

The Flash deserves a tremendous amount of credit and should not be qualified by the Rebirth/Button tie ins. The storylines running through the book don't really have anything to do with any tie ins. If it got some extra eyes on it from Metal, it actually managed to keep them there with some good storytelling beyond. It even made me not hate NuWally so much. Go figure. Venditti's stories are so disposable. Everything takes 4- 5 issues, then it resets and goes onto something new as if the prior story is totally forgotten. Look at Barry & Iris. She kills Zoom and this turns into a subplot throughout the rest of the issues and continues. Barry does other things, but the issue with Iris is always right there. Hell, part of the reason I keep buying the comics is because I want to see where that goes. Contrast that with the Soranik story. She goes nuts, burns Kyle, then disappears. Since then, she's only mentioned in passing. There's not urgency for Kyle to track her down. There's not ongoing plot thread. It's just shelved.

It should still be mentioned that Flash is a solo book. Barry doesn't share(until recently) the spotlight with multiple other speedsters on a bi-monthly basis, so Williamson can afford to give sub-plots to some of Barry's supporting characters. Same thing with Emiko, Diggle, Kate Spencer or Victoria Much in the Green Arrow book. Neither Kyle, nor any of the other GLs in the HJ book are solo protagonists, there's not enough room to juggle the four of them, let alone their personal lives or supporting cast. That doesn't excuse some of the "uneventful" storytelling in the book, just pointing out it's a different animal.

[Sam Robards, Comic Fan]

To reinforce what others have said, there is no permanent solution; however, there are three main things you need to do:

• Maintain the two-book structure (more than two, and things become unwieldy), but keep each book to two lanterns, ideally with the split it was during the early Johns era: Hal and John on one, Kyle and Guy on the other
• Keep Baz and Cruz in JL, but get them outta the Lantern books: they're crowding the line
• Get good, big-name creative teams with long-term plans for each book, or have one big-name writer on one title and control of the shape of the line and a good writer who can play ball on the other title
• Make the Green Lanterns matter to the larger DCU in terms of presence and plot relevance

And that's the plan.

[WillieMorgan]

The Flash deserves a tremendous amount of credit and should not be qualified by the Rebirth/Button tie ins. The storylines running through the book don't really have anything to do with any tie ins. If it got some extra eyes on it from Metal, it actually managed to keep them there with some good storytelling beyond. It even made me not hate NuWally so much. Go figure. Venditti's stories are so disposable. Everything takes 4- 5 issues, then it resets and goes onto something new as if the prior story is totally forgotten. Look at Barry & Iris. She kills Zoom and this turns into a subplot throughout the rest of the issues and continues. Barry does other things, but the issue with Iris is always right there. Hell, part of the reason I keep buying the comics is because I want to see where that goes. Contrast that with the Soranik story. She goes nuts, burns Kyle, then disappears. Since then, she's only mentioned in passing. There's not urgency for Kyle to track her down. There's not ongoing plot thread. It's just shelved. If I were hooked and wanted to see where that story goes, there's no reason to buy any GL books. I can just wait until it comes back around again. But by then, I might not give a schitt anymore. Even if this Zod story is the greatest thing ever written, once those 5 issues are done, reset and hope the next random encounter story is worth reading.

I say change is needed and Venditti has to move on. He's not going to get any better because being who he is is what got him here in the first place. He's the sole architect of the entire GL franchise. Why would he act like a hungry young writer with passion and take chances if he didn't have to?

I wasn't trying to imply that the Rebirth/The Button connections are the only reason that the title has experienced a resurgence lately. Like you say, it's been very well and engagingly written since Williamson took over and the title is fully deserving of it's plaudits. What the tie-ins to the overall DCU narrative have done though is make the title seem like crucial reading to readers that might otherwise have bypassed it. And that can only help it right?

Perhaps a better example of what I mean are the Johns era 'The Sinestro Corps War' and, in particular, 'Blackest Night'. With those storylines Johns placed the GL franchise right into the centre of the larger DCU and made them irresistible to more casual readers. There's no drive at DC at present to do something like that. I'm not saying that DC should directly copy those stories. That would just be desperate. The Corps sometimes suffers from the same issues that affect the Legion though. Stories that are remote from the larger DCU and seem less important to some readers.

It's true that the Robert Venditti name on a front cover hardly helps that comic-book fly off the shelves. Maybe at a future date he will move on and you'll get your wish.

[Trey Strain]

The Flash consistently sells, regardless of who is writing it, and Green Lantern can do that too. That's what I mean.

[Carabas]

Which would continue to prove that DC uses Batman as a crutch too damn much.

Heh.

Let's take away Batman's A-list writers and artists, and his big events, and see how well he sells then.

Nothing sells great forever without extra input. Trey's magical mystery success formula does not exist. Not even for Batman.

The Flash consistently sells, regardless of who is writing it...

It so does not.

[WillieMorgan]

The Flash consistently sells, regardless of who is writing it.

Not really. It's as susceptible to the same market trends as nearly everything else.

The Flash is currently around 15,000 copies a month minimum better off than it was in around early 2016 and those figures have been even further apart in recent history. And that's twice a month to boot.

[9th.]

One just needs to think about what are the merits of Green Lantern that would make him sell without needing a crutch.

I think he needs more outside media, his last show only lasted a season

[Trey Strain]

Not really. It's as susceptible to the same market trends as nearly everything else.

The Flash is currently around 15,000 copies a month minimum better off than it was in around early 2016 and those figures have been even further apart in recent history. And that's twice a month to boot.

These are very consistent sales. Give Green Lantern a reboot and clean the debris out of its engine, and it could post these same numbers.

December 2017: Flash 37 $2.99 DC 46,881

December 2016: Flash 13 $2.99 DC 62,800 (Rebirth)

December 2015: Flash 47 $3.99 DC 42,129

December 2014: Flash 37 $2.99 DC 37,026

December 2013: Flash 26 $2.99 DC 36,601

December 2012: Flash 15 $2.99 DC 45,925

December 2011: Flash 4 $2.99 DC 77,336 (New 52)

[WillieMorgan]

These are very consistent sales. Give Green Lantern a reboot and clean the debris out of its engine, and it could post these same numbers.

December 2017: Flash 37 $2.99 DC 46,881

December 2016: Flash 13 $2.99 DC 62,800 (Rebirth)

December 2015: Flash 47 $3.99 DC 42,129

December 2014: Flash 37 $2.99 DC 37,026

December 2013: Flash 26 $2.99 DC 36,601

December 2012: Flash 15 $2.99 DC 45,925

December 2011: Flash 4 $2.99 DC 77,336 (New 52)

If you mean that those sales are consistently decent then, yes, you are right.

If you mean that those sales are consistent with each other then you obviously didn't even look at them. There's a 41,000 strong deficit between the December 2011 sales and the figures exactly 2 years later.

Oh, and another thing I meant to ask - how does your much vaunted reboot fit in with the rest of the DCU? How will all these brand new rookie GL's, all given a brand new start and cleared of all their 'baggage', fit in with the previously established adventures and relationships that they've had in the Justice League for example? Do we just conveniently ignore that gaping plot hole in continuity? Does the entire DCU reboot to fit in with the GL titles? Do the GL series all now take place in a different reality? Have you even thought this through properly?

[The Dying Detective]

I think he needs more outside media, his last show only lasted a season

Meh stupid executive meddling the had one good thing even though the movie failed and they killed it. The show itself on it's own would have brought in lots of money.

[AngryComicBookNerd]

I wasn't trying to imply that the Rebirth/The Button connections are the only reason that the title has experienced a resurgence lately. Like you say, it's been very well and engagingly written since Williamson took over and the title is fully deserving of it's plaudits. What the tie-ins to the overall DCU narrative have done though is make the title seem like crucial reading to readers that might otherwise have bypassed it. And that can only help it right?

Perhaps a better example of what I mean are the Johns era 'The Sinestro Corps War' and, in particular, 'Blackest Night'. With those storylines Johns placed the GL franchise right into the centre of the larger DCU and made them irresistible to more casual readers. There's no drive at DC at present to do something like that. I'm not saying that DC should directly copy those stories. That would just be desperate. The Corps sometimes suffers from the same issues that affect the Legion though. Stories that are remote from the larger DCU and seem less important to some readers.

It's true that the Robert Venditti name on a front cover hardly helps that comic-book fly off the shelves. Maybe at a future date he will move on and you'll get your wish.

I'm sorry, I wasn't implying that you were implying anything. I wanted to make a point (sorry about poorly wording it). When Flash had a tie-in, it's sales naturally boosted for that issue. Afterwards, they drop back but it still kept some of the numbers. When Hal tied in to metal, it got a boost then quickly fell back down to even worse numbers than before. Getting eyes on the comic is not the problem. What they see, is.

And second, I totally agree that DC has effectively carved Hal and the green lanterns out of its universe. Only Simon & Jessica are integrated and they have little to no ties to anything corps related. They don't report to John or care about OA/Mogo. Compare that to Flash and you see Wally is part of the Titans, other Wally is in Teen Titan stories, Barry is on the JL. If Hal died in the next issue.... who would it really affect?