Black Panther *Spoilers*

[Midvillian1322]

Well I hope you are impressed with what he does here. I was, but I throw comics over my shoulder and watch what they are doing in the movie. I think there are people going in with far too high expectations for who T'Challa should be in this story and where he is in his journey. Perhaps they let these concerns get in the way of seeing the performance for what it is. There is no doubt about it he isn't the coolest, the most outrageous, the most gregarious or the most expressive. All of those are taken by other and different actors. He is however the very model of an action hero. Calm, thoughtful, identifiable, likeable, charming and as strong a regal presence as a new king should be.

This isn't your normal action movie or your normal super-hero movie. It is building an entire world of characters for potential sequels and to tell a story wider than any one character. Marvel haven't made a movie like this before. this could be the first ever movie in an entire franchise, so expansive and fascinating is the world and the ideas employed. I am probably alone but I got a Harry Potter vibe watching this.

Dont think Comic fans are gonna complain ovet Bosemans Tchalla because you just desrcibed comicbook Tchalla for the most part.

Im.going tonight and i have a feeling the day gonna go by slow as hell. Ill post my thought tonight but as a life long BP fan im gonna say it upfront... I baised as hell do take my review with a grain of salt. Im either gonna hate it or im gonna love it and thinknits pure extacy.

[JKtheMac]

Dont think Comic fans are gonna complain ovet Bosemans Tchalla because you just desrcibed comicbook Tchalla for the most part.

I have already seen the complaints. Some want an uber competent Batman-like T'Challa. Some want a grand and regal T'Challa. Some are upset that some of his competencies are farmed out to the supporting cast, like Shuri.

I actually worry that some might want a 'Noble Savage in costume with technology' T'Challa, without realising why that isn't going to happen (or at least won't happen again).

[TheInvisibleMan]

I have already seen the complaints. Some want an uber competent Batman-like T'Challa. Some want a grand and regal T'Challa. Some are upset that some of his competencies are farmed out to the supporting cast, like Shuri.

I actually worry that some might want a 'Noble Savage in costume with technology' T'Challa, without realising why that isn't going to happen (or at least won't happen again).

of course, because thats how they see any hero that isn't white

god forbid we have our own agency

[Midvillian1322]

I have already seen the complaints. Some what an uber competent Batman-like T'Challa. Some want a grand and regal T'Challa. Some are upset that some of his competencies are farmed out to the supporting cast, like Shuri.

I actually worry that some might want a 'Noble Savage in costume with technology' T'Challa, without realising why that isn't going to happen (or at least won't happen again).

We knew Shuri was getting the Tech Smarts since the first trailer. And he was king for 5mins a civil war and was still very Regal.

[JKtheMac]

We knew Shuri was getting the Tech Smarts since the first trailer. And he was king for 5mins a civil war and was still very Regal.

See maybe the reason I am relatively immune to the hype is because I just don't watch these things. Shuri was a complete surprise to me, as was everything else. It made for a wonderful experience.

[AJBopp]

Although I personally believe that if a thing can be spoiled, it wasn't very good to begin with, I understand my view isn't widely shared. I have noticed some spoilers starting to appear in the other thread, and it seemed like a good idea to create this for a place to put those kinds of posts.

Go ahead, spoil me!

[Midvillian1322]

Im not coming back into this thread till i see it tonight. But yhis is the first time in a long time iv avoided Spoilers. Usually i dont care. I knew about he Vulture twist in SMHC and it still went overwell. But BP gets special treatment from me. Ill be back tonight to post my review

[Midvillian1322]

See maybe the reason I am relatively immune to the hype is because I just don't watch these things. Shuri was a complete surprise to me, as was everything else. It made for a wonderful experience.

You never saw a trailer?

[Frontier]

I have already seen the complaints. Some want an uber competent Batman-like T'Challa. Some want a grand and regal T'Challa. Some are upset that some of his competencies are farmed out to the supporting cast, like Shuri.

I actually worry that some might want a 'Noble Savage in costume with technology' T'Challa, without realising why that isn't going to happen (or at least won't happen again).

As long as he's more competent and effective then MCU Spider-Man, which shouldn't be too hard, I'm good .

[Ilan Preskovsky]

Well right off the bat the mostly white middle class reaction to the joke you highlight in my cinema was to laugh out-loud. I watched it with about 80 people max probably less, and I was in England so you are not going to get clapping and cheering for anything except maybe Star Wars on opening night, and I am probably louder than most in the cinema (I am by no means a loud person). IMO that joke was very on-point and funny, and designed for the reaction it gets from the butt of it. Not tone deaf, not pointed at the audience, not designed to divide, just a good and meaningful joke that like all of the humour in this movie illuminates character.

I will save any detailed analysis for a spoiler thread.

I look forward to reading it.

And, well, each to their own, I guess. Maybe it's just a difference of background but I did genuinely roll my eyes at that joke. Like I say, it does somewhat make sense considering who says it but I still thought it was pretty limp - made worse by the applause and holloring and hooting that it receieved from the audience I watched it with. It's kind of like watching a sitcome with a laughtrack where a joke that is clearly not meant to raise much more than a titter is met with howling laughter from the laughtrack. Not only does it not make it any funnier, it actually makes it a hundred times less funny.

[JKtheMac]

You never saw a trailer?

I saw the very first flash of the teaser trailer. It had hardly anything in it and I was pointedly not watching over my wife’s shoulder.

[JKtheMac]

As long as he's more competent and effective then MCU Spider-Man, which shouldn't be too hard, I'm good .

Now you are just looking for a rise out of me. I adore Parker in Homecoming. It’s not in my top three which is now Avengers / BP / Avengers AOU. (No I don’t rate Cap movies as highly as everyone else seems to.)

[JKtheMac]

Well I am not going out of my way to spoil but what stood out to me was this movie is just as much about the US today as it is about Africa. Yes there are lots of Afrofuturist nods (am I even spelling that right?) and plenty of references to various cultures with costumes architecture and characterisations, but the overriding feeling you get is that this is a message movie and the message is aimed inwards.

The idea of Wakanda as a story device is equally problematic as it is empowering. The ‘lost kingdom’ idea is itself an idealised notion from the west that allows us to place other continents into our imagination as other and alien. This Wakanda is very alien but it is also very familiar. The idea of Africa being a land of natural resources is also influenced by colonial ideals, so Vibranium becomes a symbol in the movie. It was always a symbol of course, but symbols mutate with the times and now this is about who gets to control and handle the wealth it provides and how that wealth is shared. Again this is a reflection of the way western economies hide behind austere poverty and reduce overseas spending, or want to have a say in how that spending is used.

There is so much here about the Black US experience that the main antagonist is the very embodiment of the disenfranchised diaspora. Criminal father, angry about being denied his heritage, wanting the rich nations to be undermined by destabilising them. It is no accident that part of the plan is to do this by pretty much the way developing but classified ‘rogue’ nations have been deliberately destabilised by means both economic and by covert military means. It is almost a weakness of the movie that they decide to also use more direct military means.

Anyway so much to depack. Those are just some random thoughts that got to the surface first.

[Iron_Legion87]

Now you are just looking for a rise out of me. I adore Parker in Homecoming. It’s not in my top three which is now Avengers / BP / Avengers AOU. (No I don’t rate Cap movies as highly as everyone else seems to.)

I am interested to see how my MCU rankings will go after I see Black Panther and Infinity War. For me the best of the MCU films so far are, Civil War, Winter Soldier, Avengers, Thor Ragnorok, Spider Man Homecoming, Iron Man, Guardians of the Galaxy. Not to say I don't think the other films are great, because I do. I just think those particular ones are the best of the best (as of right now).

[JKtheMac]

There is a lot being said about Michael B Jordan’s part in the movie. Especially that he outshines Boseman.

For a start the two actors need to mutually support each other, so part of Jordan’s performance is how Killmonger is the opposite and equal of T’Challa. They are the same person brought up on different sides of the track. It is also vital for the way the movie is structured that Killmonger is identifiable to the audience his character represents, he needs to be effortlessly cool, he needs to be able to assert himself and he needs to be very competent as a fighter.

This is a driven man who has grafted to get into the position he is in. It would probably have been easier to map the obscure corners of Africa than to work his way up into a black ops mercenary assassin job.

His message needs to be heard by the audience for the ending to work. It is not enough for T’Challa to understand his point, we need to. That’s a lot of weight on a single actor’s shoulders. Especially when they decided to stretch his plan to include dispatching planes. This is only done to give Ross something to do, and it almost strains credulity that Killmonger would want to do this on day one. Again he has to sell this and exposition is needed to support it.

So is he acting Boseman off the screen? No. Is he having to be the central character for large portions of the business end of the movie. Yes, and he does it magnificently. The camera loves him just as much as everyone else. There are a lot of impossibly beautiful people in this movie, and they can all act.