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  1. #856
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    I know a lot of people are questioning why critics love BP but upon watching it again, it’s because it’s a superhero movie that touched upon some uncomfortable topics which superhero movies rarely do.

    Some of these are:

    How some inner city kids lose their parents to violence and the effect it could have on said young person. In this case, it could be even be termed black on black violence seeing as T’Chaka killed his brother and left Killmonger all by himself. It’s not a coincidence that Coogler framed that scene in Oakland (where Coogler is from) and in 1992.

    How colonialism stole from Africa things that can’t be replaced. With the exception of the Wakandan thing, the artifacts in the museum are real artificacts. The Benin Ivory masks (among other precious works) were plundered from the Benin Empire and are still on display in the United Kingdom. Nigeria had to commission re-creations of it when it rightly belongs to them. It’s not even a secret how countries like Ghana and even Congo were looted for their resources. In that context, it made a ton of sense for Wakanda to isolate and hide itself.

    How much responsibility a powerful country should take and what role it should play in global politics particularly in the midst of strife. I don’t need say more about that.

    How easily extremism can creep into political discourse and cause divisions in society. W’Kabi was always somewhat militant and as soon as someone like Killmonger came in, he simply fell in line with him and didn’t hesitate to raise arms against his own people. We’ve already seen this happen in many western countries and it’s just now entering American politics.

    How difficult it is to be a ruler and a good man. It’s been said many times that as leader of a nation, one has to make some very difficult decisions, T’Challa is a guy with a heart (of course because he’s a superhero) and some of the stuff his father did was something he just couldn’t roll with. Although, we will see the real consequences of his decisions in the next movie.

    Then you have some little celebrations of Pan-Africanism (the separate colors that Okoye, Nakia and T’Challa wore to the Casino represent the Pan-African flag), Afro-futurism (something that’s never been seen on screen) and strong naturalistic female depictions.

    These are some of the reasons that critics are praising the movie. Critics generally like movies that “say something”and it’s very rare for superhero movies to say anything. It’s not because of an all-black cast because if that were the case Tyler Perry movies and Fifty Shades of Black would be critically acclaimed.
    Last edited by Username taken; 02-25-2018 at 06:22 AM.

  2. #857
    New old guy Surf's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bukdiah View Post
    I think it has too many easy problems to pick out to be a great movie. It definitely doesn't have a strong screenplay. I'll agree that it's good though just thought it was over hyped hard. BP and WW make alright movies that also have representation, thus glowing reviews IMO
    It was a better screenplay than 90% of any other cape movies that have come out the several years. I challenge you offer a couple movies YOU felt are superior as a gague rather the popular detraction device of speaking in generals. In fact the only critiques with actual merit are the CGI choices at times, which is a part of all these movies. Even then the performances and cinematography were so much better than other like films can compensate for a single third act scene with complicated generated effects. Then too maybe you are comparing Black Panther to The Godfather I or II as a movie and screenplay.

    And that's not how 'hype' works. People everwhere PAID there money to see it and loved it. That is reaction. When The Force Awakens came out they put fucking BB8 on bags of oranges found at Kroger. NO film was overhyped as that, hype is about marketing not consumed product.

    Lastly glowing reviews don't happen just for diversities sake. If so then many, many more comic fans would be still talking about Steel, or Elektra, or goddamned Halle Berry Catwoman. I doubt anyone felt WW was a cinematic masterpiece but unfortunately it was the best DC moviesince MOS and many people didn't even LIKE MOS, I did.Panther is better than WW anyway and I'm a huge WW fan but 'opinions' like yours seen like they only serve to try and be different because when it comes down to it, seeing so many people enjoy something HAS to have issue right? Especially when it comes to this audience.

    I mean if you think BvS was a tighter movie than Black Panther then just say it. Then your taste can be judged accordingly because most everything else sounds earily like vague talking points many interwebberz use.
    Beefing up the old home security, huh?
    You bet yer ass.

  3. #858
    Astonishing Member Soubhagya's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Surf View Post
    It was a better screenplay than 90% of any other cape movies that have come out the several years. I challenge you offer a couple movies YOU felt are superior as a gague rather the popular detraction device of speaking in generals. In fact the only critiques with actual merit are the CGI choices at times, which is a part of all these movies. Even then the performances and cinematography were so much better than other like films can compensate for a single third act scene with complicated generated effects. Then too maybe you are comparing Black Panther to The Godfather I or II as a movie and screenplay.

    And that's not how 'hype' works. People everwhere PAID there money to see it and loved it. That is reaction. When The Force Awakens came out they put fucking BB8 on bags of oranges found at Kroger. NO film was overhyped as that, hype is about marketing not consumed product.

    Lastly glowing reviews don't happen just for diversities sake. If so then many, many more comic fans would be still talking about Steel, or Elektra, or goddamned Halle Berry Catwoman. I doubt anyone felt WW was a cinematic masterpiece but unfortunately it was the best DC moviesince MOS and many people didn't even LIKE MOS, I did.Panther is better than WW anyway and I'm a huge WW fan but 'opinions' like yours seen like they only serve to try and be different because when it comes down to it, seeing so many people enjoy something HAS to have issue right? Especially when it comes to this audience.

    I mean if you think BvS was a tighter movie than Black Panther then just say it. Then your taste can be judged accordingly because most everything else sounds earily like vague talking points many interwebberz use.
    Be cool. Let Bukdiah speak. There's nothing to suggest that Bukdiah suggests that BvS was better.

    And if anyone does think that BvS is better then one can't judge that person's taste. Art is supposed to be an experience which varies from person to person. There is no right opinion for such a subject. For the record i think BP is very good and is getting the right praise.

    Just because someone thinks its just good as opposed to be great how can they be wrong? No film is universally beloved.
    Last edited by Soubhagya; 02-25-2018 at 06:41 AM.

  4. #859
    Astonishing Member Soubhagya's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Username taken View Post
    I know a lot of people are questioning why critics love BP but upon watching it again, it’s because it’s a superhero movie that touched upon some uncomfortable topics which superhero movies rarely do.

    Some of these are:

    How some inner city kids lose their parents to violence and the effect it could have on said young person. In this case, it could be even be termed black on black violence seeing as T’Chaka killed his brother and left Killmonger all by himself. It’s not a coincidence that Coogler framed that scene in Oakland (where Coogler is from) and in 1992.

    How colonialism stole from Africa things that can’t be replaced. With the exception of the Wakandan thing, the artifacts in the museum are real artificacts. The Benin Ivory masks (among other precious works) were plundered from the Benin Empire and are still on display in the United Kingdom. Nigeria had to commission re-creations of it when it rightly belongs to them. It’s not even a secret how countries like Ghana and even Congo were looted for their resources. In that context, it made a ton of sense for Wakanda to isolate and hide itself.

    How much responsibility a powerful country should take and what role it should play in global politics particularly in the midst of strife. I don’t need say more about that.

    How easily extremism can creep into political discourse and cause divisions in society. W’Kabi was always somewhat militant and as soon as someone like Killmonger came in, he simply fell in line with him and didn’t hesitate to raise arms against his own people. We’ve already seen this happen in many western countries and it’s just now entering American politics.

    How difficult it is to be a ruler and a good man. It’s been said many times that as leader of a nation, one has to make some very difficult decisions, T’Challa is a guy with a heart (of course because he’s a superhero) and some of the stuff his father did was something he just couldn’t roll with. Although, we will see the real consequences of his decisions in the next movie.

    Then you have some little celebrations of Pan-Africanism (the separate colors that Okoye, Nakia and T’Challa wore to the Casino represent the Pan-African flag), Afro-futurism (something that’s never been seen on screen) and strong naturalistic female depictions.

    These are some of the reasons that critics are praising the movie. Critics generally like movies that “say something”and it’s very rare for superhero movies to say anything. It’s not because of an all-black cast because if that were the case Tyler Perry movies and Fifty Shades of Black would be critically acclaimed.
    All correct points.

    This is not pointed to you but people in general. We shall beware of getting into an excuse making tendency which crops up often. Critics give their honest opinions. Just because i happen to love a film which is hated by everybody i shall not get into an excuse that the critics hate it just because of this or this reason. This works in reverse too. I love TLJ. And no amount of hatred from fans can change my opinion. (Granted the critics loved it. ).

  5. #860
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    Quote Originally Posted by Soubhagya View Post
    Be cool. Let Bukdiah speak. There's nothing to suggest that Bukdiah suggests that BvS was better.

    And if anyone does think that BvS is better then one can't judge that person's taste. Art is supposed to be an experience which varies from person to person. There is no right opinion for such a subject. For the record i think BP is very good and is getting the right praise.

    Just because someone thinks its just good as opposed to be great how can they be wrong? No film is universally beloved.
    I am cool. I'm Coolio and as such Coolio wasn't talking to you. He or she can respond, ignore or agree to me as they see fit.

    When a poster interchanges screenplay with story it's a tell that they prefer to come across more discerning than that really are. Winter Soldier is my favorite MCU movie and parts of it are absolutley rediculous. My intimation is not that if you didnt think Black Panther was GREAT you're a card carrying bigot. He did make a claim that Panthers praise is conditional however. I see you didn't chime in on that.

    As far as artistic subjectivity goes, no ****. Doest make everyone's opinion rate the same. I only offered BvS as a sample as a bit of hyperbole like your man did. Even I didn't and felt everyone who held back tears seeing Eisenburg as a fully realized Lex, masterplan and all, was a paste eater you'd agree is my prerogative too right? Right. How cool is that.
    Beefing up the old home security, huh?
    You bet yer ass.

  6. #861
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    Quote Originally Posted by Username taken View Post
    I know a lot of people are questioning why critics love BP but upon watching it again, it’s because it’s a superhero movie that touched upon some uncomfortable topics which superhero movies rarely do.

    Some of these are:

    How some inner city kids lose their parents to violence and the effect it could have on said young person. In this case, it could be even be termed black on black violence seeing as T’Chaka killed his brother and left Killmonger all by himself. It’s not a coincidence that Coogler framed that scene in Oakland (where Coogler is from) and in 1992.

    How colonialism stole from Africa things that can’t be replaced. With the exception of the Wakandan thing, the artifacts in the museum are real artificacts. The Benin Ivory masks (among other precious works) were plundered from the Benin Empire and are still on display in the United Kingdom. Nigeria had to commission re-creations of it when it rightly belongs to them. It’s not even a secret how countries like Ghana and even Congo were looted for their resources. In that context, it made a ton of sense for Wakanda to isolate and hide itself.

    How much responsibility a powerful country should take and what role it should play in global politics particularly in the midst of strife. I don’t need say more about that.

    How easily extremism can creep into political discourse and cause divisions in society. W’Kabi was always somewhat militant and as soon as someone like Killmonger came in, he simply fell in line with him and didn’t hesitate to raise arms against his own people. We’ve already seen this happen in many western countries and it’s just now entering American politics.

    How difficult it is to be a ruler and a good man. It’s been said many times that as leader of a nation, one has to make some very difficult decisions, T’Challa is a guy with a heart (of course because he’s a superhero) and some of the stuff his father did was something he just couldn’t roll with. Although, we will see the real consequences of his decisions in the next movie.

    Then you have some little celebrations of Pan-Africanism (the separate colors that Okoye, Nakia and T’Challa wore to the Casino represent the Pan-African flag), Afro-futurism (something that’s never been seen on screen) and strong naturalistic female depictions.

    These are some of the reasons that critics are praising the movie. Critics generally like movies that “say something”and it’s very rare for superhero movies to say anything. It’s not because of an all-black cast because if that were the case Tyler Perry movies and Fifty Shades of Black would be critically acclaimed.
    Is this really a thing? "a lot of people wondering why critics love BP". The movie is outpacing Avengers in it's second week audiences love it too.

  7. #862
    Astonishing Member Soubhagya's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by CliffHanger2 View Post
    Is this really a thing? "a lot of people wondering why critics love BP". The movie is outpacing Avengers in it's second week audiences love it too.
    I agree with you. All points mentioned are valid. But the conclusion that critics somehow love it more due to this is suspect.

    Before trying to explain anything i will suggest what is common sense. People like a movie just because they like it. Its as simple as that.

    One can then get into discussions about what they liked and what they didn't. And see from different points of view to appreciate more or reject it.

    It is outpacing Avengers. People are loving it just as much if not more then Avengers.

  8. #863
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    Quote Originally Posted by CliffHanger2 View Post
    Is this really a thing? "a lot of people wondering why critics love BP". The movie is outpacing Avengers in it's second week audiences love it too.
    Oh Yes, even on these forums some are suggesting the movie is getting acclaim because it's an all black cast which just isn't true.

    Yeah, audiences love it too. I just read somewhere that the turnout for the second weekend was one of the most diverse ever.

  9. #864
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    Quote Originally Posted by Soubhagya View Post
    So you mean to say that T'Challa was the challenger and Killmonger was the king during the final battle?

    I mean what was the status of T'Challa? Was he a king or not a king?

    Technically Killmonger wasn't the king yet even after the coronation. Did he complete the challenge? No. But everyone thought he did. A man of his experience should know that its possible to survive such falls. He should not have thrown T'Challa down the waterfall.
    He should have searched for the body to make sure T'challa was really dead.

  10. #865
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    Quote Originally Posted by Soubhagya View Post
    So you mean to say that T'Challa was the challenger and Killmonger was the king during the final battle?

    I mean what was the status of T'Challa? Was he a king or not a king?

    Technically Killmonger wasn't the king yet even after the coronation. Did he complete the challenge? No. But everyone thought he did. A man of his experience should know that its possible to survive such falls. He should not have thrown T'Challa down the waterfall.
    The challenge would have ended either from T'Challa's death or his surrender but KM and his theatrics chose to just throw him over a cliff and anointed himself King.

  11. #866
    Astonishing Member Soubhagya's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Surf View Post
    I am cool. I'm Coolio and as such Coolio wasn't talking to you. He or she can respond, ignore or agree to me as they see fit.

    When a poster interchanges screenplay with story it's a tell that they prefer to come across more discerning than that really are. Winter Soldier is my favorite MCU movie and parts of it are absolutley rediculous. My intimation is not that if you didnt think Black Panther was GREAT you're a card carrying bigot. He did make a claim that Panthers praise is conditional however. I see you didn't chime in on that.

    As far as artistic subjectivity goes, no ****. Doest make everyone's opinion rate the same. I only offered BvS as a sample as a bit of hyperbole like your man did. Even I didn't and felt everyone who held back tears seeing Eisenburg as a fully realized Lex, masterplan and all, was a paste eater you'd agree is my prerogative too right? Right. How cool is that.
    Of course, its the prerogative of his or hers to respond. I thought those were honest opinions. I see no reason to be opposing in view just for the sake of it. Its a waste of time and energy.

    I also asked a similar question as you. What faults did you find in screenplay? One can have discussions from different points of view in order to appreciate this film more. That's why we discuss films in the first place.

    Share and hear opinions. Be discerning. See it from inside out. Look something that one may have missed. And so on and so forth. Your post came across by first looks that you thought that anyone who thinks its just good is wrong. It shall be great for all. And someone is wrong just to like it. One has to love it. Or else one is dishonest.

    You did not mean that but i thought that you meant that. As far as BvS is concerned i have read people who love it. They are in a minority. Very small in number. But they are quite honest about it. I don't share their opinion but can speak simply like this. Art is an experience. And that can be varied, depending upon the person.

    That does not mean that there aren't good or great films. Such films manage to touch the heart of most of the audiences or critics. A really hard task actually. In Basketball we know what is to be done. You have to put the ball in the basket. The one with the best average can be called as the best player. But such things don't exist in cinema. Its really difficult to make a film which is considered as good by most people.

    So its fine to disagree and discuss. Fun lies there. But once we star being difficult and make others life difficult just because they don't agree with our viewpoint regarding a movie it can turn unpleasant. I thought you were entering that territory so i stepped in even if i did not need to.

    And also because its a time for celebration. BP is going to earn more then Avengers in its second weekend. Its amazing! I never imagined that in my wildest dreams!

    And of course i love Avengers more then BP. And love DC more then Marvel. But its a celebration time for all comic book fans.

    About Luthor i will say something unpopular. I liked Eisenberg's performance. He was someone to hate. One would personally wish to punch that good for nothing rich boy right in his face. But even i am hard pressed to say he was a good villain. I think even those who love BvS will be unable to feel choked or feel tears swelling up in one's eyes. I felt like that for Killmonger. For Luthor that is too far. Just too far. Unless there really exists some person. I won't call that person a paste eater as you. But i would definitely be interested to hear their opinion.

    I would interpret your paste eater comment as meaning a small kid. Some kids do eat paste. But who knows once in a while a small kid can speak a word or two of profound wisdom. Never under estimate anyone. Especially kids. They are becoming cleverer with each passing day.
    Last edited by Soubhagya; 02-25-2018 at 11:29 AM.

  12. #867
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    Quote Originally Posted by Surf View Post
    I am cool. I'm Coolio and as such Coolio wasn't talking to you. He or she can respond, ignore or agree to me as they see fit.

    When a poster interchanges screenplay with story it's a tell that they prefer to come across more discerning than that really are. Winter Soldier is my favorite MCU movie and parts of it are absolutley rediculous. My intimation is not that if you didnt think Black Panther was GREAT you're a card carrying bigot. He did make a claim that Panthers praise is conditional however. I see you didn't chime in on that.

    As far as artistic subjectivity goes, no ****. Doest make everyone's opinion rate the same. I only offered BvS as a sample as a bit of hyperbole like your man did. Even I didn't and felt everyone who held back tears seeing Eisenburg as a fully realized Lex, masterplan and all, was a paste eater you'd agree is my prerogative too right? Right. How cool is that.
    I’m black and I agree the screenplay wasn’t strong and micheal b Jordan’s acting was cringe worthy....im glad it got made but yea definitely over hype....I mean I read tweets that they were crying over killmongers story ...crying?

  13. #868
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    Quote Originally Posted by obatalla View Post
    I’m black and I agree the screenplay wasn’t strong and micheal b Jordan’s acting was cringe worthy....im glad it got made but yea definitely over hype....I mean I read tweets that they were crying over killmongers story ...crying?
    ITA! MBJ was cringe inducing.

    I can understand why the Killmonger's story resonated with the AA community. I read and viewed numerous videos with ppl furious that KM was depicted as a villain when he should have been the hero. I'm an African and could relate with the colonialism aspect of the story but you can be black and still not feel that plight --- which i feel is highlighted by the scene where KM's father tells his son they are lost or something close to that illustrating the disconnect in both communities and the brainwashing campaign over time was successful.

  14. #869
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    Quote Originally Posted by Username taken View Post
    I know a lot of people are questioning why critics love BP but upon watching it again, it’s because it’s a superhero movie that touched upon some uncomfortable topics which superhero movies rarely do.

    Some of these are:

    How some inner city kids lose their parents to violence and the effect it could have on said young person. In this case, it could be even be termed black on black violence seeing as T’Chaka killed his brother and left Killmonger all by himself. It’s not a coincidence that Coogler framed that scene in Oakland (where Coogler is from) and in 1992.

    How colonialism stole from Africa things that can’t be replaced. With the exception of the Wakandan thing, the artifacts in the museum are real artificacts. The Benin Ivory masks (among other precious works) were plundered from the Benin Empire and are still on display in the United Kingdom. Nigeria had to commission re-creations of it when it rightly belongs to them. It’s not even a secret how countries like Ghana and even Congo were looted for their resources. In that context, it made a ton of sense for Wakanda to isolate and hide itself.

    How much responsibility a powerful country should take and what role it should play in global politics particularly in the midst of strife. I don’t need say more about that.

    How easily extremism can creep into political discourse and cause divisions in society. W’Kabi was always somewhat militant and as soon as someone like Killmonger came in, he simply fell in line with him and didn’t hesitate to raise arms against his own people. We’ve already seen this happen in many western countries and it’s just now entering American politics.

    How difficult it is to be a ruler and a good man. It’s been said many times that as leader of a nation, one has to make some very difficult decisions, T’Challa is a guy with a heart (of course because he’s a superhero) and some of the stuff his father did was something he just couldn’t roll with. Although, we will see the real consequences of his decisions in the next movie.

    Then you have some little celebrations of Pan-Africanism (the separate colors that Okoye, Nakia and T’Challa wore to the Casino represent the Pan-African flag), Afro-futurism (something that’s never been seen on screen) and strong naturalistic female depictions.

    These are some of the reasons that critics are praising the movie. Critics generally like movies that “say something”and it’s very rare for superhero movies to say anything. It’s not because of an all-black cast because if that were the case Tyler Perry movies and Fifty Shades of Black would be critically acclaimed.
    Kinda silly you have to defend this movie. Not only does the movie have something to say it does it through beautiful nd tremendously acted scenes. Sterling k Brown, Michale b Jordan, and Chadwick Boseman bring the emotion.

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    Quote Originally Posted by DeathGods View Post
    ITA! MBJ was cringe inducing.

    I can understand why the Killmonger's story resonated with the AA community. I read and viewed numerous videos with ppl furious that KM was depicted as a villain when he should have been the hero. I'm an African and could relate with the colonialism aspect of the story but you can be black and still not feel that plight --- which i feel is highlighted by the scene where KM's father tells his son they are lost or something close to that illustrating the disconnect in both communities and the brainwashing campaign over time was successful.
    It’s not that it didn’t resonate.. it’s just that killmonger wasn’t even on screen that much and the delivery of his lines were so bad it killed any feeling I had for the character...all the other performances were well done.

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