Black Panther *Spoilers*

[RikWriter]

I can see where they wouldn't include that explanation just for pacing issues though.

[Cyke]

Can you share how there are racist ads in Asian markets. These markets are pretty complicated. Indian audiences (and extrapolating it into all Asian markets though i maybe wrong in doing that) might value fairer skin. But they are not racist like Western countries. Different kind of racism exists which can't be explained by an umbrella term like racism.

Complication arises out of competition. Western films are from a different culture altogether. Say for instance Jungle Book performed extremely well in India. Owing to a beloved cartoon which played 30 years ago. Part nostalgia and part wonderful film is the reason. It depends on how they respond to the film itself. And what kind of interest exists for Black Panther. Also what kind of local competition BP faces.

Its obviously not a culturally important film in Asian countries. BP is not well known as say Spider-man. And how connected it is to Avengers and the MCU films in people's eyes? It must do atleast that much as an MCU film which is not Avengers or Spider-man.

There's a youtube clip from a recent Chinese variety show where the actors dressed up in blackface. Though, in fairness, they're getting a lot of backlash from their audience, calling out the racism; however, advertisers, last I checked, haven't pulled out, and that contributes to idea that racism is okay. http://www.bbc.com/news/world-asia-china-43081218

But it also goes to show that entertainment and corporations are often behind the general populace when it comes to race.

[adkal]

I can see where they wouldn't include that explanation just for pacing issues though.

Totally (and there were parts that seemed to drag a little). It was just something I had an 'issue' with, my sibs didn't

[bat39]

I personally thought it was a great film. The critics obviously over-hyped it a bit, and I dare say there was a bit of an attempt at virtue-signalling involved there. Its certainly not a 'revolutionary' film for the genre or anything of the sort. But it is a great thoroughly enjoyable Marvel film - definitely one of the more refreshing installments in the franchise.

The first half was a kind of James Bond film, with a superhero twist. I got massive Skyfall vibes with the whole casino scene. And Shuri obviously channels Q to a great extent (particularly the one from the recent Craig movies).

The second half was of course more of a political film and an epic - reminiscent of 'Thor' and even 'Iron Man' in many ways, yet with a real-world political subtext to the whole thing.

The best part IMO is how the film demonstrates perfectly that politics is not really a function of race, nationality or skin color, but rather one of circumstances.

You have T'Chaka, Zuri, W'Kabi and most of the traditional Wakandan elite (including T'Challa, for most of the film) who follow a kind of center-right ideology. They wish to work towards the progress and advancement of Wakanda, while keeping it safe from outsiders - which also includes maintaining a non-interventionist stance when it comes to other countries.

You have M'Baku, who's kind of a right-wing conservative - disillusioned with the political mainstream and their perceived move away from tradition. But he ends up joining forces with his center-right allies against a greater threat.

You have Nakia who is a bit of a center-leftist. She believes that Wakanda can open up to the world and help others while still preserving their way of life and their power. By the end of the film, T'Challa gradually shifts to this position.

Killmonger IMO is arguably a kind of left-wing extremist - albeit, the sort who resorts to extreme measures against what he considers a right-wing or fascist status quo to the point where he unwittingly ends up becoming indistinguishable in actions from a right-wing extremist or fascist.

Quiet a rich spectrum of political views and stances represented, which is an interesting change from the binary we normally see around us.

[Sub-Zero MKA]

Yra alot of us feel the same way. I think that marvel has a plan for a BP 2 otherwise they wouldnt have kill his 2/3 of his bigest villians off in one movie. Achebe/Malice/Hunter could all be used. I just hope Mbaku doesnt become a bad guy they made him too likable. Out of all the charatcers who didnt get much screen time hes the one i wanted more of most.

Thats a lie Sterling K brown was amazing. But not offense to Winston Duke but they just arent the same Caliber of actor.

Agreed on M'Baku. I wasn't expecting much from him, but he ended up being one of my favorite characters, behind Shuri and Killmonger. I'm glad they didn't make him a villain like the trailer alluded to.

[Tazirai]

current BO numbers and projections

http://deadline.com/2018/02/black-pa...ce-1202291093/

That is insane. 201 For the THREE DAY? Sheesh...
This is a cultural event, not just a movie to many.
As a Black Man including myself. Going again tomorrow.

[Tazirai]

Can you share how there are racist ads in Asian markets. These markets are pretty complicated. Indian audiences (and extrapolating it into all Asian markets though i maybe wrong in doing that) might value fairer skin. But they are not racist like Western countries. Different kind of racism exists which can't be explained by an umbrella term like racism.

Complication arises out of competition. Western films are from a different culture altogether. Say for instance Jungle Book performed extremely well in India. Owing to a beloved cartoon which played 30 years ago. Part nostalgia and part wonderful film is the reason. It depends on how they respond to the film itself. And what kind of interest exists for Black Panther. Also what kind of local competition BP faces.

Its obviously not a culturally important film in Asian countries. BP is not well known as say Spider-man. And how connected it is to Avengers and the MCU films in people's eyes? It must do atleast that much as an MCU film which is not Avengers or Spider-man.

As a person that's lived in Japan, I know where to look to find them. ^^

http://www.scmp.com/news/china/socie...-consternation

[Sighphi]

There's a youtube clip from a recent Chinese variety show where the actors dressed up in blackface. Though, in fairness, they're getting a lot of backlash from their audience, calling out the racism; however, advertisers, last I checked, haven't pulled out, and that contributes to idea that racism is okay. http://www.bbc.com/news/world-asia-china-43081218

But it also goes to show that entertainment and corporations are often behind the general populace when it comes to race.

No, they are behind the United States where this is an issue.

To the rest of the world dressing up as something else is not an issue.

That's the funny thing about this. In the US this has been deemed as racist and now the whole world must do what people in the US demand.

[The Whovian]

Just thought I would post this for new fans of BP. It's Newsarama's 10 must read Black Panther stories of all time:
https://www.newsarama.com/38600-10-g...-all-time.html

[Midvillian1322]

Can you share how there are racist ads in Asian markets. These markets are pretty complicated. Indian audiences (and extrapolating it into all Asian markets though i maybe wrong in doing that) might value fairer skin. But they are not racist like Western countries. Different kind of racism exists which can't be explained by an umbrella term like racism.

Complication arises out of competition. Western films are from a different culture altogether. Say for instance Jungle Book performed extremely well in India. Owing to a beloved cartoon which played 30 years ago. Part nostalgia and part wonderful film is the reason. It depends on how they respond to the film itself. And what kind of interest exists for Black Panther. Also what kind of local competition BP faces.

Its obviously not a culturally important film in Asian countries. BP is not well known as say Spider-man. And how connected it is to Avengers and the MCU films in people's eyes? It must do atleast that much as an MCU film which is not Avengers or Spider-man.

Didnt mean to gernalize but like you said Eastern culture seems to value whiter skin and have a history of very offensive commecials. Especialy against black people.

Maybe its just a lack of exposure but theres countless storys of black familys visting China and ppl will point stair and take pictures everywhere they go. I assume in the big citys this probaly isnt an issue but they are probaly exposed to more ppl of a different ethnicty. Who knows the Fast and Furious movies do well and they have a very ethnic cast and most ppl think Vin Disel is part black anyway.

[Midvillian1322]

Just thought I would post this for new fans of BP. It's Newsarama's 10 must read Black Panther stories of all time:
https://www.newsarama.com/38600-10-g...-all-time.html

Without clicking it is a Panthers Rage number 1?

[Cyke]

No, they are behind the United States where this is an issue.

To the rest of the world dressing up as something else is not an issue.

That's the funny thing about this. In the US this has been deemed as racist and now the whole world must do what people in the US demand.

It was clear that the context I was speaking about was China, and not in comparison to anywhere else in the world. But regardless if it's the US, Britain, China, Kenya, Chile, New Zealand, elsewhere, social change by business and government is prompted by social change brought by the populace first. That's what I'm getting at. After all, government is supposed to follow the will of the people, and businesses have to appeal to the public, so no country can depend on the government or corporations to be at the forefront of positive social change, whatever that may look like in their respective lands. (simply look at the history of public demonstrations, even if you go further than the French Revolution or Magna Carta). The Chinese TV producers and their sponsors did not see a problem with blackface; Chinese viewers at home, however, responded fiercely in calling out that racism. Pure and simple. It certainly wasn't an American show, and it certainly wasn't an American audience calling it out.

On another note, are you seriously defending blackface on international TV as acceptable anywhere in the world? THIS is the cross that you want to die on, in a thread about Black Panther? Take a step back and look at what you're arguing for here. I dare you to tell those Chinese audiences that they're wrong for protesting blackface and anti-blackness in their own country.

That's a block from me, thanks.

I personally thought it was a great film. The critics obviously over-hyped it a bit, and I dare say there was a bit of an attempt at virtue-signalling involved there. Its certainly not a 'revolutionary' film for the genre or anything of the sort. But it is a great thoroughly enjoyable Marvel film - definitely one of the more refreshing installments in the franchise.

The first half was a kind of James Bond film, with a superhero twist. I got massive Skyfall vibes with the whole casino scene. And Shuri obviously channels Q to a great extent (particularly the one from the recent Craig movies).

The second half was of course more of a political film and an epic - reminiscent of 'Thor' and even 'Iron Man' in many ways, yet with a real-world political subtext to the whole thing.

The best part IMO is how the film demonstrates perfectly that politics is not really a function of race, nationality or skin color, but rather one of circumstances.

You have T'Chaka, Zuri, W'Kabi and most of the traditional Wakandan elite (including T'Challa, for most of the film) who follow a kind of center-right ideology. They wish to work towards the progress and advancement of Wakanda, while keeping it safe from outsiders - which also includes maintaining a non-interventionist stance when it comes to other countries.

You have M'Baku, who's kind of a right-wing conservative - disillusioned with the political mainstream and their perceived move away from tradition. But he ends up joining forces with his center-right allies against a greater threat.

You have Nakia who is a bit of a center-leftist. She believes that Wakanda can open up to the world and help others while still preserving their way of life and their power. By the end of the film, T'Challa gradually shifts to this position.

Killmonger IMO is arguably a kind of left-wing extremist - albeit, the sort who resorts to extreme measures against what he considers a right-wing or fascist status quo to the point where he unwittingly ends up becoming indistinguishable in actions from a right-wing extremist or fascist.

Quiet a rich spectrum of political views and stances represented, which is an interesting change from the binary we normally see around us.

My friend noticed that too, and she cheered on the fact that there were five tribes depicted in the movie, highlighting that Black communities weren't monolithic, that Black communities are just as diverse in opinion as any other. And, moreso, that despite those differences, Killmonger made them realize that, even with five different opinions, there's value in rethinking how resources are shared (particularly, M'Baku pointing out how T'Challa was the first king in decades to visit his realm), how Black power is ultimately shared and is good for the world in-and-out of Wakanda. M'Baku and Nakia may disagree on how to handle the world outside of Wakanda, but they both agree that Wakanda can be more of a force for help than restriction -- M'Baku with Wakandans, and Nakia with outsiders. Also, that it would take an extremist like Killmonger to have the five tribes' values ultimately align along with Killmonger central goal -- which, despite him, is more humanistic -- without his harsh tactics (hence the return to Oakland). It's okay to acknowledge the sins of the past, it's okay to fight for change to better communities, it's okay to right wrongs (something T'Challa, the tribes, and Killmonger ultimately all agree with) but a violent, proactively empirical attack is not the way to do it.

Son of Baldwin's quote got to me during the movie: "We can disagree and still love each other unless your disagreement is rooted in my oppression and denial of my humanity and right to exist," which, to me, sums up Killmonger's relationship to the five tribes, trying to get Wakanda to support him. The goal wasn't wrong, but his methods were. Ultimately the more centrist T'Challa, despite being stabbed and nearly killed, came to agree with Killmonger's goals to spread humanity and Black existence, but in my more peaceful and positive ways, and by doing that, T'Challa had to acknowledge Killmonger's Wakandan roots -- his right to exist (and die) as a Wakandan.

[Gaastra]

Yeah BP is killing it at the box office. We went sunday night and that's a dead time here and it was packed! Also pointed out by many black panther will make in 4 days what justice league made in it's full run! Ouch!

Liked the movie other then klaw was a waste. He was so much fun at the start then they threw him away. You have the raft marvel USE IT!

The thing that made me shake my head is everyone leaving as the movie ends. It's been 10 blasted years and they still don't know you have to stay till the end of a marvel studios movie! 97% missed the after movie scene and half missed the mid scene.

[Cyke]

Yeah BP is killing it at the box office. We went sunday night and that's a dead time here and it was packed! Also pointed out by many black panther will make in 4 days what justice league made in it's full run! Ouch!

Liked the movie other then klaw was a waste. He was so much fun at the start then they threw him away. You have the raft marvel USE IT! .

There have been MCU movies where I didn't care for the villain. If they died, they died. But this is probably the first MCU movie where I didn't want either of the main enemies to die simply because they were so magnetic. For teeny tiny amount of time that Serkis got, he was great. His bravado at the casino, the interrogation scene, even how he killed that security guard.

[CliffHanger2]

Serkis was pretty good but I was kinda glad when he got killed. I really didn't want him to be the main villain or take up too much time in the movie. Kilmonger was great but served his purpose.
I did think this movie had the best villains yet and Panther isn't really known for his rogues gallery but Coogler really made the most of them. Sure he'll do the same for the next chapter.