Black Panther *Spoilers*

[Soubhagya]

Didnt mean to gernalize but like you said Eastern culture seems to value whiter skin and have a history of very offensive commecials. Especialy against black people.

Maybe its just a lack of exposure but theres countless storys of black familys visting China and ppl will point stair and take pictures everywhere they go. I assume in the big citys this probaly isnt an issue but they are probaly exposed to more ppl of a different ethnicty. Who knows the Fast and Furious movies do well and they have a very ethnic cast and most ppl think Vin Disel is part black anyway.

See what is considered offensive varies from culture to culture. I read those articles posted which showed black face. That's perhaps due to misunderstanding. People at China can't understand that kind of thing. There does not exist a history of violence and exploitation against black people in these countries.

Offensive commercials or stories of visiting families being stared at is somewhat understandable. People being stared is mostly due to curiosity and wonder. Not out of intention of disrespecting or harming the people. That would be so in most cases. I will have to see offensive ads you mentioned to understand. There does not exist a black population to tell them that its offensive.

While fair skin is considered desirable lack of it is hardly cause of exploitation or violence. There are other reasons for harming others as every culture has its reasons to kill and exploit. Success or failure of BP will not be affected by racism. It did not affect US box office. Did it? Fringe groups exist everywhere as you mentioned. BP would succeed or fail on its own terms in these countries. If people have an interest in BP and if is considered entertaining by the populace there's nothing much to worry. The connection to MCU must've been widely marketed. Fast and the Furious succeeds not because it has a diverse cast or not. Its because its really entertaining and has developed a fan following. Also what is considered entertaining is different for different people too.

An Indian would find fairer skin desirable. But i don't think he or she would go to see beautiful people on screen in a hollywood film. There's a different standard of what is considered beautiful as there's a thriving and successful film industry. Action, cg action sequences, etc is what people look at when going to a Hollywood film.

[Soubhagya]

There's a youtube clip from a recent Chinese variety show where the actors dressed up in blackface. Though, in fairness, they're getting a lot of backlash from their audience, calling out the racism; however, advertisers, last I checked, haven't pulled out, and that contributes to idea that racism is okay. http://www.bbc.com/news/world-asia-china-43081218

But it also goes to show that entertainment and corporations are often behind the general populace when it comes to race.

When speaking of a different country and its culture i can hardly speak on it without considering its long history. You have to understand that what is considered offensive in one culture is not so in other. That's often due to ignorance. The article cited posts where it was called out as offensive. But that's not indicative of the entire population. Some people are more enlightened in the sense that they understand what is considered offensive in other countries.

Try to imagine you are of a country where people have not behaved violently or exploited people due to black skin color.

[Cyke]

Fast and the Furious succeeds not because it has a diverse cast or not. Its because its really entertaining and has developed a fan following. Also what is considered entertaining is different for different people too.

I *really* beg to differ about that. Not many movie franchises can boast strong Latina, strong Black female, strong Black male, strong Asian representations as part of a common ensemble. Much of the casts -- from Paul Walker and Vin Diesel to Ludacris and the Rock -- all had their own fan followings prior to joining the franchise.

But moreso, don't underestimate or undersell the ability of the audience to project themselves up there on screen when they see minorities like them, even internationally. It's one of the big reasons why Black Panther is on the cover of Time and Rolling Stone. For 10 years, Marvel movies have asked minority fans to relate to white central protagonists. Nothing wrong with that at all. Now Marvel is asking for audiences to relate to a Black central protagonist, and whether or not one likes the movie, the message is powerful in its own right. For that matter, the reason why Chinese and Korean characters have been playing increasingly important roles in blockbusters over the past 10 years is so that Hollywood could market to those countries -- but that alone speaks of how representation matters when it comes to selling Hollywood movies overseas; a Korean person watching an American film with a mostly white cast is the nor and it's understood, sure. But put in an established Korean actor in the same movie as RDJ and Chris Hemsworth, and Koreans will flock more to it because they can see someone of their own ethnicity interacting with larger than life heroes; in essence, they can see themselves up there better as part of the action.

Plus, the Fast and the Furious franchise was suffering before Paramount got Justin Lin involved. Lin infused a lot of Asian influence and characters in there; it helped serve to make the franchise better narratively, but it also meant bigger Asian markets; and the proof is undeniable -- the franchise that Paramount thought was going to die ended up putting out more and more movies with Lin at the helm until the last one. Diversity saved the franchise from death.

When speaking of a different country and its culture i can hardly speak on it without considering its long history. You have to understand that what is considered offensive in one culture is not so in other. That's often due to ignorance. The article cited posts where it was called out as offensive. But that's not indicative of the entire population. Some people are more enlightened in the sense that they understand what is considered offensive in other countries.

Try to imagine you are of a country where people have not behaved violently or exploited people due to black skin color.

It's not indicative of the entire population, but again, it's not Americans who called it out. It was their own audience of their own people.

Like, how do people in this thread keep missing that fact? Seriously. I haven't passed judgement on them other than pointing out the simple fact that Chinese producers were called out by Chinese audiences. If Chinese audiences consider something as anti-black racist to them, then it's well within their right to do it because they know what it looks like for them. I'm not telling them otherwise up or down from an American standpoint. This isn't some Star Trek Prime Directive policy of condescending non-interference, it's criticism coming from and by them, not outsiders.

https://sputniknews.com/viral/201802...ala-blackface/

[Soubhagya]

It's not indicative of the entire population, but again, it's not Americans who called it out. It was their own audience of their own people.

Like, how do people in this thread keep missing that fact? Seriously. I haven't passed judgement on them other than pointing out the simple fact that Chinese producers were called out by Chinese audiences. If Chinese audiences consider something as anti-black racist to them, then it's well within their right to do it. I'm not telling them otherwise from an American standpoint.

I did not say that these posts were not from Chinese. I know that black face is offensive. I spend a lot of time with Western media products and discussions. But i can't say that it can be understood by my fellow countrymen. How many of them are online? And how many spend time reading or discussing Western media topics?

[Cyke]

I did not say that these posts were not from Chinese. I know that black face is offensive. I spend a lot of time with Western media products and discussions. But i can't say that it can be understood by my fellow countrymen. How many of them are online? And how many spend time reading or discussing Western media topics?

And why are you discounting the posts from Chinese people who clearly are reading them and understand enough to call it out? You say it can't be understood by your fellow countrymen, and yet I've linked twice now to your fellow countrymen calling it out. It comes across as you understanding what racism is and then defending it nonetheless, *despite* your fellow countrymen. And once again, it was not a Western media show they were critiquing, but a Chinese TV show made in China by Chinese producers. Yes, Chinese audiences have every right to judge and evaluate what they deem offensive and what they find entertaining, but nowhere did I try to override them or speak on their behalf. They're having those discussions on their own, and those discussions are leading to them calling out anti-black racism.

Why are you dismissing them when they're right there in the link I provided? You're arguing that we should be more understanding of their ignorance on race. I'm pointing out that there are Chinese people who are indeed calling out racism -- I am not critiquing Chinese discussions on race, I'm pointing out that it's already happening.

[Marvel-Studios Rep]

Just saw it. Liked it a lot. Never liked MiNeal b Jordan, but liked him in this movie.
Wasn't really against Killmonger general idea of giving those in power apathetic to the impoverished a cruel taste of history. Course milky thing took it a few steps past that into world domination of sorts.

Ps: I personally think this movie hits two very subtle key points if you're watching and black...not hitting over the head stuff..just a certain experience. Not talking about killmonger either.

[Tazirai]

No, they are behind the United States where this is an issue.

To the rest of the world dressing up as something else is not an issue.

That's the funny thing about this. In the US this has been deemed as racist and now the whole world must do what people in the US demand.

As someone who has actually lived around the world. I can't disagree with this more. I don't know if you have or not. But there are some racial/ethnic boundaries where you just don't do things like this.

[Tazpocalapse]

A scene that brought a tear to my eye was when Okoye and W'Kabi square off and he asks her "would you kill me my love" and Okoye states "For my people yes". Watching the Dora Milaje continue to fight with no signs of retreat decides to take a knee and stop attacking his countrywomen. I thought that was a emotional hitting scene.

[Soubhagya]

And why are you discounting the posts from Chinese people who clearly are reading them and understand enough to call it out? You say it can't be understood by your fellow countrymen, and yet I've linked twice now to your fellow countrymen calling it out. It comes across as you understanding what racism is and then defending it nonetheless, *despite* your fellow countrymen. And once again, it was not a Western media show they were critiquing, but a Chinese TV show made in China by Chinese producers. Yes, Chinese audiences have every right to judge and evaluate what they deem offensive and what they find entertaining, but nowhere did I try to override them or speak on their behalf. They're having those discussions on their own, and those discussions are leading to them calling out anti-black racism.

Why are you dismissing them when they're right there in the link I provided? You're arguing that we should be more understanding of their ignorance on race. I'm pointing out that there are Chinese people who are indeed calling out racism -- I am not critiquing Chinese discussions on race, I'm pointing out that it's already happening.

That's because i am not offended myself. Why shall i be? When hospitals don't provide ambulances and a man has to carry his dead wife and walk for 12 km (7.45 miles) because he has no money.

http://www.bbc.com/news/world-asia-india-37183011

Or when for the post of a peon (which means glorified bellboy for a court) 15000 job applicants are there for 8 posts. Job applicants include post graduates and graduates as the minimum qualification is passing high school.

https://www.outlookindia.com/website...cants-i/306567

There are enough reasons to be offended in Asian countries. Blackface is the least of it when real racial violence has started happening in a country which welcomed every religion and race in the past.

https://www.hindustantimes.com/delhi...DbwUa3QYO.html

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Histor..._Jews_in_India

I say that i am not offended by black face. But i understand that it is offensive. If an understanding is not enough to be seen as nice i don't know what is. Those who called out that its racist, that's great. But those who did not call out aren't racist. Please try to think from different points of view.

[Soubhagya]

I *really* beg to differ about that. Not many movie franchises can boast strong Latina, strong Black female, strong Black male, strong Asian representations as part of a common ensemble. Much of the casts -- from Paul Walker and Vin Diesel to Ludacris and the Rock -- all had their own fan followings prior to joining the franchise.

But moreso, don't underestimate or undersell the ability of the audience to project themselves up there on screen when they see minorities like them, even internationally. It's one of the big reasons why Black Panther is on the cover of Time and Rolling Stone. For 10 years, Marvel movies have asked minority fans to relate to white central protagonists. Nothing wrong with that at all. Now Marvel is asking for audiences to relate to a Black central protagonist, and whether or not one likes the movie, the message is powerful in its own right. For that matter, the reason why Chinese and Korean characters have been playing increasingly important roles in blockbusters over the past 10 years is so that Hollywood could market to those countries -- but that alone speaks of how representation matters when it comes to selling Hollywood movies overseas; a Korean person watching an American film with a mostly white cast is the nor and it's understood, sure. But put in an established Korean actor in the same movie as RDJ and Chris Hemsworth, and Koreans will flock more to it because they can see someone of their own ethnicity interacting with larger than life heroes; in essence, they can see themselves up there better as part of the action.

Plus, the Fast and the Furious franchise was suffering before Paramount got Justin Lin involved. Lin infused a lot of Asian influence and characters in there; it helped serve to make the franchise better narratively, but it also meant bigger Asian markets; and the proof is undeniable -- the franchise that Paramount thought was going to die ended up putting out more and more movies with Lin at the helm until the last one. Diversity saved the franchise from death.

I understand the importance of Black Panther. Just a few pages ago i myself posted this video so that those who don't understand it could understand it. (Posting it again).



I did not understand it before watching the video as i am not black. But i am not white either. An understanding shall be enough in a civilized world.

It's not indicative of the entire population, but again, it's not Americans who called it out. It was their own audience of their own people.

Like, how do people in this thread keep missing that fact? Seriously. I haven't passed judgement on them other than pointing out the simple fact that Chinese producers were called out by Chinese audiences. If Chinese audiences consider something as anti-black racist to them, then it's well within their right to do it because they know what it looks like for them. I'm not telling them otherwise up or down from an American standpoint. This isn't some Star Trek Prime Directive policy of condescending non-interference, it's criticism coming from and by them, not outsiders.

https://sputniknews.com/viral/201802...ala-blackface/

Again how many of them posted that. That's few compared to a billion plus population. It does not mean that they are wrong. I am simply pointing out that racism in Asian countries is different from others. That people of Asian countries can't be called racist on the basis of what other countries think. A few initial posts were like this. 'Worried that BP won't do well in China and asian countries as in USA. There are racist ads'. That's a broad brush to paint entire populations as racist. At least it was unintentional.

[Styles]

Coogler Breaks Down the South Korea Fight Scene

[Sighphi]

I *really* beg to differ about that. Not many movie franchises can boast strong Latina, strong Black female, strong Black male, strong Asian representations as part of a common ensemble.

Alien
Predator
Rocky
Star Wars
Guardians of the Galaxy

I dont know why people are suddenly discounting the history of black actors with the release of this movie.

Like Denzel Washington or Will Smith just started making movies 5 years ago.

[CliffHanger2]

See what is considered offensive varies from culture to culture. I read those articles posted which showed black face. That's perhaps due to misunderstanding. People at China can't understand that kind of thing. There does not exist a history of violence and exploitation against black people in these countries.

Offensive commercials or stories of visiting families being stared at is somewhat understandable. People being stared is mostly due to curiosity and wonder. Not out of intention of disrespecting or harming the people. That would be so in most cases. I will have to see offensive ads you mentioned to understand. There does not exist a black population to tell them that its offensive.

While fair skin is considered desirable lack of it is hardly cause of exploitation or violence. There are other reasons for harming others as every culture has its reasons to kill and exploit. Success or failure of BP will not be affected by racism. It did not affect US box office. Did it? Fringe groups exist everywhere as you mentioned. BP would succeed or fail on its own terms in these countries. If people have an interest in BP and if is considered entertaining by the populace there's nothing much to worry. The connection to MCU must've been widely marketed. Fast and the Furious succeeds not because it has a diverse cast or not. Its because its really entertaining and has developed a fan following. Also what is considered entertaining is different for different people too.

An Indian would find fairer skin desirable. But i don't think he or she would go to see beautiful people on screen in a hollywood film. There's a different standard of what is considered beautiful as there's a thriving and successful film industry. Action, cg action sequences, etc is what people look at when going to a Hollywood film.

So there are a lot of dark skin Indian actors in India? And what about the untouchables?

[CliffHanger2]

im saying what i said in that post you quoted.

If there's nothing else to add then lets get back on subject.

What is the subject exactly?

[Largo161]

No, they are behind the United States where this is an issue.

To the rest of the world dressing up as something else is not an issue.

That's the funny thing about this. In the US this has been deemed as racist and now the whole world must do what people in the US demand.

What a weight on your shoulders it must be, speaking for "the rest of the world."