Are Dan Didio and Geoff Johns Trying to Sabotage Each Other?

[Kaled]

I might be reading too much into this but I get the impression Dan Didio and Geoff Johns are trying to sabotage each other. The reason I think this is the change in approach to DC the last few years. Didio was gung ho about starting Nu52 several years ago and now it does not look like he is as excited about the Rebirth. I read years ago that Didio and Dan Jurgens disagreed about what to do with the Justice Society during Zero Hour. I understand Didio wanted to get rid of them and Jurgens originally was going to do something similar to The Last Days of the Justice Society by placing them in their own universe. I know Didio also wanted to kill Nightwing during Infinite Crisis. I have also heard some of the 52 series writers say that Didio believed Countdown was better than 52. Johns has said that Doomsday Clock is 1 year ahead of the regular DC comics and that by the time #12 comes out all the DC books will catch up with the events in Doomsday Clock. In an interview Brian Michael Bendis said one of the things that drew him to DC is the plans Didio has DC. Now he is doing a Superman story that is being compared to Man of Steel in the sense a new beginning. If this is true how will this fit into the plans being laid out by Johns with Doomsday Clock. Also Didio now has the new titles spinning out of Metal which is partially his idea and he is showing the same enthusiasm for them that he showed when 52 launched. I don't know what goes on behind the scenes so based on this are Didio and Johns fighting for the direction of DC or am I reading too much into all this?

[Jody Garland]

Didio during Zero Hour? He wasn't at DC back then, he was still in TV.

The 52 thing gets overblown from what I remember. 52 was originally supposed to just be about the missing year, it grew into its own thing whilst neglecting a lot of its original mission statement. When Didio said the stuff about countdown, it was because Countdown was keeping to its mission statement.

Ultimately, I'd say that you are looking a bit too much into stuff. I'm sure Johns, Didio and the other higher ups disagree quite a bit, but they're all adults. They know how to work it out- see the Nightwing death for proof.

[Trey Strain]

I remember some stuff posted online about Team Dan and Team Geoff supposedly butting heads at DC. I don't know how true any of that was, but it seems to me -- and this is just an opinion -- that Johns might be in a bit of a decline at the company. I don't know whether that means DiDio's star is rising though.

[superduperman]

Supposedly, Didio wanted Convergence to be this important thing when it happened and the rest of the DC staff more or less ignored it. It was filler material for their move to Burbank and that was it. Didio supposedly saw it as a chance to say the COIE never happened and bring back the infinite multiverse but we see how far that went. New 52 was def Didio's idea but, going solely off the response from the Superman offices, it was not a popular idea. Some of the rumors I had heard was that the Superman team were actually excited when it was gone and they were openly talking at conventions about having the "REAL" Superman back. That's as far as I heard but it would not surprise me if Didio butts heads with everyone else there because a lot of the least popular ideas seem to be his. Have no idea what his current standing is though. In terms of the Bendis deal, it sounds like the only way they were going to get him was to basically let him have free reign to do whatever he wanted. He gets both books and this MOS mini sounds like a brand new origin. That's about as complete as it gets. They're never truly going to let us see how the sausage is made regardless so rumors may be all we'll ever have to go on.

[Somecrazyaussie]

Didio during Zero Hour? He wasn't at DC back then, he was still in TV.

The 52 thing gets overblown from what I remember. 52 was originally supposed to just be about the missing year, it grew into its own thing whilst neglecting a lot of its original mission statement. When Didio said the stuff about countdown, it was because Countdown was keeping to its mission statement.

Ultimately, I'd say that you are looking a bit too much into stuff. I'm sure Johns, Didio and the other higher ups disagree quite a bit, but they're all adults. They know how to work it out- see the Nightwing death for proof.

Yeah, Didio and Lee approached Johns directly to do Rebirth. Johns only agreed to do it unless they did it his way. Now, some are convinced that the whole New Age of DC Heroes spinning out of Dark Knights Metal is Didio's brainchild. That it is something he has been pushing for heavily. That may well be the case. There were rumours that Johns was miffed that these new books were taking top talent away from the Rebirth titles. However both lines don't appear to be stepping on each other's toes.

There has only really been two occasions where Johns and Didio disagreed that I know about: The first was regarding Didio wishing to kill Nightwing during Infinite Crisis. The second was upon the launch of The New 52. If you were around during the initial press launch panel, which was fronted by Johns and Lee, Johns appeared were uncomfortable and stand offish. I believe there were rumblings that he opposed it. But he was out-voted by Lee, Didio, Harras and Diane Nelson.

Now, Didio had longed to do a reboot at DC. Originally, he wanted Infinite Crisis to do it. But he was convinced otherwise by Johns and Levitz. Then he wanted to do it with Final Crisis. Again, Levitz put his foot down. 2011 roles around and Levitz was no longer Publisher. At the time, he stated he wanted to return to writing. Although some took this as spin to cover the fact he had been "pushed out." That he stepped down providing he was guaranteed work and was given creative freedom over The LoSH. Johns was gearing up to do Flashpoint. Which was, at that point, a storyline that would have been featured in the recently relaunched Flash book starring Barry Allen. The conclusion of which, would have seen the DC Universe revert to its original state. Without Levitz to block him, Didio finally had an opening to do what he had always wanted.

Johns had plans in place and had already planted seeds for future storylines in the Flash. He was also in the early stages of planning a new Justice League title with Lee. Which would have featured the original founding members coming back together to reestablish the League (which had mostly featured B and C listers in the latter issues of the former series) and would see Cyborg elevated to the team from Teen Titans. He was also going to do a new Aquaman ongoing. Suddenly, Flashpoint was made into its own mini-series and the ending was changed to result in The New 52. which discarded almost all the hard work that had gone into revamping characters post-Blackest Knight.

But saying that, it is clear they may disagree. However I don't think Didio or Johns set out to "one up" the other.

[Trey Strain]

Some message board posters have long spun the New 52 as a "debacle," but it made a ton of money for DC. Many of those same people have spun Rebirth as a smashing success, but if you compare its sales to those of the New 52, it wasn't.

The Metal titles will probably flop, but I'll give Didio credit for trying something different, and DC probably will too. Meanwhile, Johns seems to have had his wings clipped with the movies.

So if they're in conflict, it seems that DiDio is in a better position now than he's ever been.

Again, just an opinion.

[Somecrazyaussie]

Supposedly, Didio wanted Convergence to be this important thing when it happened and the rest of the DC staff more or less ignored it. It was filler material for their move to Burbank and that was it. Didio supposedly saw it as a chance to say the COIE never happened and bring back the infinite multiverse but we see how far that went. New 52 was def Didio's idea but, going solely off the response from the Superman offices, it was not a popular idea. Some of the rumors I had heard was that the Superman team were actually excited when it was gone and they were openly talking at conventions about having the "REAL" Superman back. That's as far as I heard but it would not surprise me if Didio butts heads with everyone else there because a lot of the least popular ideas seem to be his. Have no idea what his current standing is though. In terms of the Bendis deal, it sounds like the only way they were going to get him was to basically let him have free reign to do whatever he wanted. He gets both books and this MOS mini sounds like a brand new origin. That's about as complete as it gets. They're never truly going to let us see how the sausage is made regardless so rumors may be all we'll ever have to go on.

Well, the Superman books looked like they were going to do some interesting things before The New 52 hit. Somehow, Chris Roberson had managed to salvage something out of the turkey that was JMS Grounded storyline. The big one was Superman establishing a Legion out of members of the Superman Family - We had Superboy, Supergirl, Krypto and Steel to name a few. All given wristwatches identical to the one Jimmy has. Both Superboy and Supergirl's books were in great places. Superboy was off in Smallville doing his thing and Kara was living with Lana.

[Somecrazyaussie]

Some message board posters have long spun the New 52 as a "debacle," but it made a ton of money for DC. Many of those same people have spun Rebirth as a smashing success, but if you compare its sales to those of the New 52, it wasn't.

The Metal titles will probably flop, but I'll give Didio credit for trying something different, and DC probably will too. Meanwhile, Johns seems to have had his wings clipped with the movies.

So if they're in conflict, it seems that DiDio is in a better position now than he's ever been.

Again, just an opinion.

No, it is a fair assesssment. With some great points. Now, I wasn't crash hot on The New 52 when it came out. Only because most of the books I was reading at the time were planning on doing big things. Aquaman in The New 52 was a series that could have easily been done Pre-Flashpoint. Then we had Justice League International who had reformed and was going to go after Max Lord. With only them remembering he existed. Snyder's Batman was going to happen regardless.

Yet, I don't deny that it made waves and made money for DC. At the time, DC was being outdone by Marvel. Not by a small margin, either. Each month Marvel's dollar and unit share were twice that of DC's. So something had to be done to stem the tide. I didn't mind a reboot. I just would have preferred one that was well thought out. When the first few issues came out, there was a genuine feeling that it was rushed and poorly thought out. Which is why it ultimately fizzled out after a few years.

I don't necessarily blame Johns for the poor state of DC Movies. That rests solely with studio heads who decided it would be a great idea to give Snyder total control.

[Nite-Wing]

Johns making Doomsday Clock is just going be another long protracted arc that leads to nowhere(see Trinity War, Forever Evil, Darkseid War,etc)
Didio has really been the man behind all the status quo changes guiding DC

If there is infighting its probably over the stuff coming from Johns taking so long and DC being held hostage by his stories

[Trey Strain]

Johns making Doomsday Clock is just going be another long protracted arc that leads to nowhere(see Trinity War, Forever Evil, Darkseid War,etc)
Didio has really been the man behind all the status quo changes guiding DC

If there is infighting its probably over the stuff coming from Johns taking so long and DC being held hostage by his stories

DC should have gotten a JSA title and an LoS title on the stands a year and a half ago. And if they're going to do a Flash team title and maybe also a Charlton team title, the same goes for them. The company has forgone a lot of income by not getting these things rolling.

Of course Doomsday Clock is making big money for DC, but I've been wondering if maybe the sales will start dropping. That would not be a good thing.

[Trey Strain]

Someone said in a post recently that Snyder seems to have as much clout in the comics as Johns has.

Sales comparison between Dark Nights Metal and Doomsday Clock.

DARK NIGHTS METAL #1 $4.99 261,997

DARK NIGHTS METAL #2 $3.99 149,487

DARK NIGHTS METAL #3 $3.99 158,698

DARK NIGHTS METAL #4 $3.99 152,567

DARK NIGHTS METAL #5 $3.99 149,076

DOOMSDAY CLOCK #1 $4.99 119,412

DOOMSDAY CLOCK #1 LENTICULAR $5.99 119,231

DOOMSDAY CLOCK #2 $4.99 158,603

DOOMSDAY CLOCK #3 $4.99 157,714

[superduperman]

Some message board posters have long spun the New 52 as a "debacle," but it made a ton of money for DC. Many of those same people have spun Rebirth as a smashing success, but if you compare its sales to those of the New 52, it wasn't.

The Metal titles will probably flop, but I'll give Didio credit for trying something different, and DC probably will too. Meanwhile, Johns seems to have had his wings clipped with the movies.

So if they're in conflict, it seems that DiDio is in a better position now than he's ever been.

Again, just an opinion.

I was a huge supporter of New 52. I thought Superman in particular needed a hard reboot for a while with all the "soft" ones completely messing up his history. But I also can't deny that in the process of trying to fix Superman they messed up everyone else. With Superboy getting the biggest shaft. Making it a harder sell. If it were up to me, we'd just go back to the pre-Crisis universe and move forward from there.

[Trey Strain]

I was a huge supporter of New 52. I thought Superman in particular needed a hard reboot for a while with all the "soft" ones completely messing up his history. But I also can't deny that in the process of trying to fix Superman they messed up everyone else. With Superboy getting the biggest shaft. Making it a harder sell. If it were up to me, we'd just go back to the pre-Crisis universe and move forward from there.

Good points. The thing is, the New 52 was supposed to make the DCU simpler and thus friendlier to new readers, but in trying to fix what wasn't done well with it, the same amount of complexity was introduced!

[Carabas]

Some message board posters have long spun the New 52 as a "debacle," but it made a ton of money for DC. Many of those same people have spun Rebirth as a smashing success, but if you compare its sales to those of the New 52, it wasn't.

By your own measures The New 52 was a failure. Because it did not last.

I think the basic idea was sound, and their original direction was worthwhile even if it did have too much Liefeld in it. The main problem was making Bob 'clueless micromanagement' Harras EiC in charge of this. Rarely have so many boneheaded editorial decisions chased away so many creative people.

You know, stuff like "You remember that direction we greenlit ages ago, that you have since written 5 issues of, 2 of which are already out? Well, we're ungreenlighting it. Fix it. No, of course you're not getting paid for those 3 unpublished issues."

[Trey Strain]

By your own measures The New 52 was a failure. Because it did not last.

I think the basic idea was sound, and their original direction was worthwhile even if it did have too much Liefeld in it. The main problem was making Bob 'clueless micromanagement' Harras EiC in charge of this. Rarely have so many boneheaded editorial decisions chased away so many creative people.

You know, stuff like "You remember that direction we greenlit ages ago, that you have since written 5 issues of, 2 of which are already out? Well, we're ungreenlighting it. Fix it. No, of course you're not getting paid for those 3 unpublished issues."

It made a fortune, so of course it was not a failure. And the sales bump never disappeared. The company's sales were still higher just before Rebirth was launched than they were before the New 52 was launched.

The problem was in trying to reboot all those titles at the same time, which guaranteed that not enough thought went into it. But it did what it was supposed to do, which was to make money.