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  1. #31
    Astonishing Member mikeb's Avatar
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    The letter criticises the book after issue #113. That was just after John Byrne took over the penciling/co-plotting from Dave Cockrum. Also, in 1978, Jim Shooter became the EIC of Marvel.

  2. #32

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    Quote Originally Posted by ExodusCloak View Post
    As I said above the book was cancelled in 1970 and relaunched in 1975. Thats five years. They should be even grateful they got the book back given how juvenile the writing was before Claremont. He did not like the darker tone.
    I'm not even sure what you are talking about. Juvenile writing? I think Roy Thomas was on the top of his game toward the end of the first X-Men series. Darker tone? It wasn't any darker than any other super hero book. In fact, it ended with Professor Xavier coming back from the dead, which I don't think had ever been done before (though it's being done now, even as we speak).

    Or are you talking about Giant-Size X-Men #1, the first book of the series on which Claremont was not the author? But I think Len Wein did a masterful job on the writing, and again, I don't think it was particularly dark.

    I guess it's possible that you are talking about the occasional appearances of the X-Men during the years before Giant-Size X-Men #1. But again, I don't remember anything particularly juvenile about the writing or dark about the stories. (I remember an X-Men versus Avengers story in the Avengers and a Secret Empire story where the X-Men were getting kidnapped by the Secret Empire, in a number of different books. And, of course, the Beast solo series.
    Pretty standard stuff.)

    Sandy Hausler

  3. #33

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    Just for the record, I am a lover of the original X-Men, but I thought the new team (1975, not so new anymore) was great. I think that after the Xavier's Dream story the writing became more spotty. (But there are periods during the original run that were mediocre as well.) All my opinion, of course.

    Sandy Hausler

  4. #34

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    Quote Originally Posted by ExodusCloak View Post
    I have always heard there were a lot of people upset when Chris Claremont took over the X-Men and brought in the All New and Different X-Men and diversified the X-Men but I had only seen one or two letters in the pages. And assumed it was a minority. However, people have told me that there was an enormous amount of anger when the O5 was sidelined and I always found that hard to believe given that Claremont saved the franchise.

    Anyway I came across this little gem and thought I would share for those who haven't seen it. Sounds on par to a message you'd see on the internet these days.
    To be fair - it happened in GSX#1 and UXM #94. Kurt kept going till UXM #138 - and if books were monthly, that's over three years.

    I mean, I'd disagree. I think the UXM was at it's best during this time (I think UXM began to descend into sloppiness just after UXM #250... it started to descend into less character and more action... and then post UXM #300 or so... it's a blur... nothing is memorable to me)... but I collected almost to the end. I ramble about it here: http://comicreliefpodcast.com/archives/302
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  5. #35
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  6. #36
    Astonishing Member Electricmastro's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ExodusCloak View Post
    There wasn't a sign of it returning the book was canned. Until it was ressurected. What happens today is there is almost hope of a relaunch and revamp. It's not the same thing. It was an unusual thing back then

    Cancelled in 1970 and relaunched in 1975
    It's weird, because it had been described to me that X-Men's fate had pretty much gone through what Star Trek gone through, in that despite being cancelled, it had still grown what I think could best be described as a cult fanbase (perhaps in part due to the Sentinel stories and the appeal of Neal Adams' art), that grew big enough to the point to justify a continuation as well as the X-Men guest starring in other books like with Captain America. As much as some people here seem to like bashing on 60s X-Men, it also can't denied that there were/are people out there, like Kurt Busiek evidently, that quite like 60s X-Men, if only the original team, which I think is what also led to the creation of X-Factor.

  7. #37
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    I wouldn't hold Kurt Busiek as an example of how most fans, even most Jean fans at the time, felt. Plus his idea for bringing Jean 'back' was one of the worst things to happen in comics history. I trace much of the trends that have ruined comics in the last 30 years, from the constant throwing out of character-development and storytelling for nostalgia to the constant killings and resurrections to the point that death has less consequence than in does in Dragonball. Granted, the blame lies with Shooter more than anyone, but I see the original X-Factor and the resurrection of Jean that accompanied it as the beginning of the problems that have plagued the big 2. Before then Gwen Stacey, Mar-vell, and Thunderbird stayed dead, changes to the status quo stuck, like Peter Parker leaving high school or Reed and Sue having a child. I see X-Factor as the beginning of the change that has led to crap like One More Day and the X-books struggling for years and years to be anything more than nostalgia-fests for the 'good old days' of Claremont.

  8. #38
    Casual Comics Reader/Fan Londo Bellian's Avatar
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    And I thought the GRRM letter for FF was an interesting read.
    Genkai nante nai (No limits), Zettai nante nai (No absolutes)

    The Current Hill that I Risk Dying On: #KrakoaNEVERMYXMEN
    "I promise, I'll definitely save you. With my tenth and final life, I WILL PROTECT YOU, MUTANDOKA!" ~HoMoira Kinross Akemi

  9. #39
    Spectacular Member djoki96's Avatar
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    There's always outrage. Just take a look at Marvel's "Wha... Huh?" segment that shows us what it would be like if internet existed back in the day.

    -Who the hell does Jack Kirby think he is? Why can't he let someone else drawn a damn comics book? Who died and made him king?
    -The new X-Men team sucks! Why are they coming up with "great" new characters like Storm (white-haired black woman— give me a break) and Colossus (like Thing but Russian) when we all know they're all going to fail. The only cool one was Thunderbird, so of course they killed him off! It's an insult to the fans of real X-Men Stan Lee's X-Men, that we're forced to endure those pretenders!
    -All of sudden Matt Murdock is a ninja?? You gotta be kidding me?! Bring back Gene Colan and stop giving your books to these crazy people who clearly have never read a comics book before.

  10. #40
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    Quote Originally Posted by sunofdarkchild View Post
    I wouldn't hold Kurt Busiek as an example of how most fans, even most Jean fans at the time, felt. Plus his idea for bringing Jean 'back' was one of the worst things to happen in comics history. I trace much of the trends that have ruined comics in the last 30 years, from the constant throwing out of character-development and storytelling for nostalgia to the constant killings and resurrections to the point that death has less consequence than in does in Dragonball. Granted, the blame lies with Shooter more than anyone, but I see the original X-Factor and the resurrection of Jean that accompanied it as the beginning of the problems that have plagued the big 2. Before then Gwen Stacey, Mar-vell, and Thunderbird stayed dead, changes to the status quo stuck, like Peter Parker leaving high school or Reed and Sue having a child. I see X-Factor as the beginning of the change that has led to crap like One More Day and the X-books struggling for years and years to be anything more than nostalgia-fests for the 'good old days' of Claremont.


    Jean ruined comics. If it hadnt been her itd probably be someone else but as it stands, it was her.

  11. #41
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    Quote Originally Posted by tuck frump View Post


    Jean ruined comics. If it hadnt been her itd probably be someone else but as it stands, it was her.
    Jean dying and returning was new. It was interesting. It was shocking. The problem was NOT with Jean Grey.

    The problem was creative bankruptcy that turned death and resurrection into a stock plot arc that pretty much every character goes through at some point, and that the only characters who tend to STAY dead are C-listers and Death-By-Backstory relationships (seriously, with the revolving door around death, why has no one thought to bring back Frank's family?).

  12. #42
    Extraordinary Member Glio's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ambaryerno View Post
    Jean dying and returning was new. It was interesting. It was shocking. The problem was NOT with Jean Grey.

    The problem was creative bankruptcy that turned death and resurrection into a stock plot arc that pretty much every character goes through at some point, and that the only characters who tend to STAY dead are C-listers and Death-By-Backstory relationships (seriously, with the revolving door around death, why has no one thought to bring back Frank's family?).
    There is a comic in which The Hood resurrected Frank's family with black magic so he would stop being the Punisher.

    Punisher killed his family with a flamethrower.

  13. #43
    Incredible Member teapartyofthedead's Avatar
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    Kurt Busiek, along with Geoff Johns, achieved the dream: writing the comic themselves so that it fits the vision in their head. Are there any other writers who started as patients but went on to run the asylum?

  14. #44
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    Quote Originally Posted by teapartyofthedead View Post
    Kurt Busiek, along with Geoff Johns, achieved the dream: writing the comic themselves so that it fits the vision in their head. Are there any other writers who started as patients but went on to run the asylum?
    Grant Morrison?

  15. #45
    BANNED spirit2011's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ambaryerno View Post
    Jean dying and returning was new. It was interesting. It was shocking. The problem was NOT with Jean Grey.

    The problem was creative bankruptcy that turned death and resurrection into a stock plot arc that pretty much every character goes through at some point, and that the only characters who tend to STAY dead are C-listers and Death-By-Backstory relationships (seriously, with the revolving door around death, why has no one thought to bring back Frank's family?).
    Quesada that didn't liked that Jean was back from her first dead, wanted to bring Gwen Stacy back. JMS talked Quesada back and we got that twins story.

    For me it is all about what character you are fan. I think only thunderbird tha twas a hero stayed dead for so long.
    Jean dead wasn't mean to be a gimmick, Superman dead was a complete gimmick

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