Fan outrage when Claremont took over?

[Electricmastro]

There's always outrage. Just take a look at Marvel's "Wha... Huh?" segment that shows us what it would be like if internet existed back in the day.

-Who the hell does Jack Kirby think he is? Why can't he let someone else drawn a damn comics book? Who died and made him king?
-The new X-Men team sucks! Why are they coming up with "great" new characters like Storm (white-haired black woman— give me a break) and Colossus (like Thing but Russian) when we all know they're all going to fail. The only cool one was Thunderbird, so of course they killed him off! It's an insult to the fans of real X-Men Stan Lee's X-Men, that we're forced to endure those pretenders!
-All of sudden Matt Murdock is a ninja?? You gotta be kidding me?! Bring back Gene Colan and stop giving your books to these crazy people who clearly have never read a comics book before.

It's not even just the internet either, because there's always passion, but there are certainly quite a number of passionate people out there that don't quite seem to be responsible in expressing that passion. I even recall Tom DeFalco saying how he got bags of hate mail in the 1980s for changing Spider-Man's iconic costume to black.

[Havok83]

Quesada that didn't liked that Jean was back from her first dead, wanted to bring Gwen Stacy back. JMS talked Quesada back and we got that twins story.

For me it is all about what character you are fan. I think only thunderbird tha twas a hero stayed dead for so long.
Jean dead wasn't mean to be a gimmick, Superman dead was a complete gimmick

The orignial post was a reference to Jean's original death/resurrection, not what went down with Jean during the Quesada era. Jean dying and returning wasnt new by this point as it was commonplace in comics by the 2000s

[Electricmastro]

Claremont *radically* changed the X-Men from what they were. Like almost completely. I would compare it to X-FOrce turning into X-Statix. That change also got enormous pushback in the letters/email columns of like 2001/2002.

It is kind of funny how people want to cling to the status quo and the iconic/main X-Men who themselves were absolutely "All New All Different" compared to the original squad. It's (forgive this analogy lol) almost like white people in the USA being "against immigrants".

Admittedly, X-Statix's debut came more as a result of parody than anything else.

As for the analogy of "white people in the USA being "against immigrants," won't get into that, but as for me personally, while everyone praises the Giant-Size X-Men team of 1975 over the 1963 one, I honestly don't think the 1975 team was that well developed either in its first few years either, and didn't become a much more interesting team until after Jean Grey's death, between 1980 and 1985:

Nightcrawler - started out somewhat interesting, but didn't become much more interesting until his miniseries in 1985.

Storm - started out somewhat interesting, but didn't become much more interesting until her development in Dancin' in the Dark in 1983.

Sunfire - was too much of a jerk without an endearing quality and never really interested me in the short time before he left.

Thunderbird - started out somewhat interesting, but the point becomes moot after his death

Banshee - never really interested me

Colossus - never really interested me until He'll Never Make Me Cry in 1984.

Cyclops - a slightly more endearing jerk than Sunfire, but still never really interested me

Wolverine - started out somewhat interesting, but didn't become much more interesting until his miniseries in 1982.

[Zelena]

Claremont *radically* changed the X-Men from what they were. Like almost completely. I would compare it to X-FOrce turning into X-Statix. That change also got enormous pushback in the letters/email columns of like 2001/2002.

It is kind of funny how people want to cling to the status quo and the iconic/main X-Men who themselves were absolutely "All New All Different" compared to the original squad. It's (forgive this analogy lol) almost like white people in the USA being "against immigrants".

As someone who started to read X-men comics with the New X-men, I didn't go through the same 'heartbreak' as Busiek but I certainly can understand. When you love something…

[djoki96]

It's not even just the internet either, because there's always passion, but there are certainly quite a number of passionate people out there that don't quite seem to be responsible in expressing that passion. I even recall Tom DeFalco saying how he got bags of hate mail in the 1980s for changing Spider-Man's iconic costume to black.

Oh, yeah, I know that. People sure as hell said this kind of stuff in 60's, 70's, and 80's, but internet makes it a lot easier.

[WallStreeter]

So people should just be happy a title is back even if its nothing like what they loved before? I dont get that logic. The Silver age book was rough but there were those that loved it and what Claremont wrote with the All New team was jarring as it was a radical change. The book may have been cancelled but the team was still around, making appearances all across the MU. They were dismantled and Jean was killed off in the issue that prompted this letter. I really dont see how its hard to imagine why he would be upset.

At the same time Claremont's remake of the X-Men took Marvel to an all new level. the X-Men were made popular enough for a Saturday cartoon, which helped make them popular enough for the now dead Fox franchise. The X-Men still helped launch the current superhero movies.

It's an example of why you cannot listen to fans while they want. If Marvel had listened to Busiek we'd probably still have the original 5 as a team. But the original five as a team failed on MULTIPLE occasions. Jean's the only woman in the line up, and there's no ethnic, religious, or racial diversity there. The All New, All Different Lineup turned out to be much more popular.

[WallStreeter]

As I said above the book was cancelled in 1970 and relaunched in 1975. Thats five years. They should be even grateful they got the book back given how juvenile the writing was before Claremont. He did not like the darker tone.

Agree with you here totally. If the previous iteration of the X-Men had been so great it never would have gotten canceled to begin with. Claremont's version was never canceled. He took great risk that paid off.

[Kurt Busiek]

As someone who started to read X-men comics with the New X-men, I didn't go through the same 'heartbreak' as Busiek but I certainly can understand. When you love something…

Neither did Busiek.

I was fairly young when I wrote that letter, and it's kind of embarrassing today, but I'm baffled as to how people keep reading it and assuming that I hated the new X-Men, when the letter itself says I thought the book was excellently written and drawn, and that it wasn't until #113 that I started getting soured on it, and it wasn't until #138 that I stopped buying it.

That's not fan outrage when Chris took over. That's fan (well, one fan's) disappointment years after Chris took over.

I liked the old book. I liked the new book...for a while. Eventually, I didn't any more. It happens.

But it wasn't because Len and Dave replaced most of the membership. That was cool, and it was my favorite book for quite a while.

kdb

[Kurt Busiek]

If Marvel had listened to Busiek we'd probably still have the original 5 as a team.

Never suggested that to Marvel, never would have thought to.

Marvel did put the original five together as a separate team (and I unwittingly helped with that), and they did a flashback series with the original team.

But I thought the revamp (which was Roy's idea and Len and Dave's execution; Chris took over right after that) was a great idea.

kdb

[Kurt Busiek]

Kurt Busiek, along with Geoff Johns, achieved the dream: writing the comic themselves so that it fits the vision in their head. Are there any other writers who started as patients but went on to run the asylum?

Roy, Chris, Dave, John, Len...

[Kurt Busiek]

It has more to do with nostalgia, I think. People who started reading the book and became fans during the Silver age (like Busiek) didn't feel the ANAD team was "their x-men". Just like many people today won't accept anything that isn't a Claremont throwback.

You're making stuff up, honest.

I didn't start reading during the Silver Age, and I liked the ANAD team.

I started reading comics regularly in 1974. I started buying back issues early on, and bought a whole lot of X-MEN back issues. That was how I became a fan, not because I read them in the Silver Age.

And I liked the new team fine for years.

[Kurt Busiek]

(OK, I understand he probably wouldn't be able to , but dammit if a Busiek run on the title wouldn't be a dream of mine.)

I would change things a lot -- but not by going backward...

[Kurt Busiek]

There wasn't a sign of it returning the book was canned. Until it was ressurected. What happens today is there is almost hope of a relaunch and revamp. It's not the same thing. It was an unusual thing back then

Cancelled in 1970 and relaunched in 1975

It was in reprints for most of that period, and the X-Men guest-starred in multiple books, some of which were intended as "testing the waters" for a relaunch.

X-Men fans kept asking Marvel for a relaunch and Marvel often let the fans know they were thinking about it, so it's not true that there was no sign of it returning. There was interest from Marvel, interest from the readership, stories keeping the characters in view...it wasn't just radio silence until boom, new book.

[Kurt Busiek]

I can imagine a young and awkward Busiek getting all flustered by Emma's racy corset. Absolutely scandalous.

Sure, sure.

I was 19 when Emma debuted, so seeing women in their underwear wasn't exactly a horrifying thing. If they really wanted to get my pulse going, though, maybe they should have gotten Gene Colan and Bill Everett to draw her, instead of the fairly antiseptic John Byrne and Terry Austin.

Great storytelling, but not all that sexy...

[Electricmastro]

It was in reprints for most of that period, and the X-Men guest-starred in multiple books, some of which were intended as "testing the waters" for a relaunch.

X-Men fans kept asking Marvel for a relaunch and Marvel often let the fans know they were thinking about it, so it's not true that there was no sign of it returning. There was interest from Marvel, interest from the readership, stories keeping the characters in view...it wasn't just radio silence until boom, new book.

Interesting. I've never actually heard any sort of explanation for why Marvel decided to do a continuation of the X-Men in the first place, but now that I think about it, yeah, I suppose it was sort of this cult status/guest starring position the X-Men had been put in between 1970 and 1975 that helped justify publishing Giant-Size X-Men #1 and the rest. I've heard the comparison between X-Men and Star Trek's cancellation, and that's probably the most appropriate comparison to make as well.