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  1. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dr. Poison View Post
    I've never thought of Black Vulcan as a copy of Black Lightning. Black Vulcan could fly, turn into pure electrical energy, and travel in time. I like both Black Vulcan and Black Lightning and don't see why they can't co-exist. I'd love to see Apache Chief, Black Vulcan, El Dorado, Rima, and Samurai properly inducted into the Justice League.
    Well, it's no secret that Hanna Barbera wanted to use Black Lightning for the Superfriends show but if they did, DC would have had to pay Tony Isabella. So they came up with Black Vulcan instead.

  2. #17
    Astonishing Member BatmanJones's Avatar
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    Maybe it's because they have heads but not bodies, as demonstrated here, in one of my favorite ironic images from DC lore. I think this picture kind of says it all.

    293596_10150294722584011_499679583_n.jpg

  3. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by vitruvian View Post
    Dr. Poison got it backwards... at the time, Black Lightning was pretty street level, with no flight, transformation, or time travel. He was an Olympic athlete and great street fighter who could shoot or punch electricity and also use it for a low-level force field some of the time. Black Vulcan, invented for Super Friends for rights reasons, was the one who had the high level abilities, even though they made little sense with his name (which would have suggested flame or perhaps metal-based powers).



    Apache Chief bears little to no resemblance to Super Chief; if you've ever seen the cartoon, his sole ability seemed to be growth. Same with Samurai; despite the name, he had fairly generic wind powers similar to those of Red Tornado.

    Rima could easily be justified as being the same one from Green Mansions just by going with an alternate ending to the book and having her encounter the Fountain of Youth (either the one in Florida encountered by Rex and Detective Chimp, or another one in South America), thereby living since then and gaining a lot of experience. Heck, the talking to animals thing could be justified by her having already encountered the Fountain.
    I have a few issues of the Rima series from the 70's. The stories aren't ground breaking but there's some really nice art.

  4. #19
    Astonishing Member CRaymond's Avatar
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    Maybe we should Workshop them? One’s redundant, one’s trans, one’s Psychic, one’s magic.

  5. #20
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    Wouldn't the original characters created by Hanna-Barbera belong to Hanna-Barbera? I know they were absorbed into WB animation, so DC could use them. But I think there's some book-keeping involved when that happens, where DC has to license them from the respective division of WB and pay fees, etc.

    Quote Originally Posted by ed2962 View Post
    I have a few issues of the Rima series from the 70's. The stories aren't ground breaking but there's some really nice art.
    I beg to differ. That was ground-breaking to me at the time and reading again all these years later. The adaptation of GREEN MANSIONS stands out for its maturity and the complexity of the characters (especially Rima's father) relative to the kind of comics DC was creating at the time. It's an exceptional work. Granted the layouts by Joe Kubert and the finished art by Nestor Redondo are beautiful, but they work effectively with Robert Kanigher's script adaptation to provide a moving story.

    That's why I'd rather keep that version of Rima in her own time period. DC can create another Rima in modern day, but I don't want them messing around with retroactive continuity to ruin those stories.
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  6. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jim Kelly View Post
    Wouldn't the original characters created by Hanna-Barbera belong to Hanna-Barbera? I know they were absorbed into WB animation, so DC could use them. But I think there's some book-keeping involved when that happens, where DC has to license them from the respective division of WB and pay fees, etc.



    I beg to differ. That was ground-breaking to me at the time and reading again all these years later. The adaptation of GREEN MANSIONS stands out for its maturity and the complexity of the characters (especially Rima's father) relative to the kind of comics DC was creating at the time. It's an exceptional work. Granted the layouts by Joe Kubert and the finished art by Nestor Redondo are beautiful, but they work effectively with Robert Kanigher's script adaptation to provide a moving story.

    That's why I'd rather keep that version of Rima in her own time period. DC can create another Rima in modern day, but I don't want them messing around with retroactive continuity to ruin those stories.
    I know that Brian Azzerello revamped Rima for his "First Wave" series, but it was cancelled before she showed up.

  7. #22
    Astonishing Member El_Gato's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by CRaymond View Post
    Maybe we should Workshop them? One’s redundant, one’s trans, one’s Psychic, one’s magic.
    That's a good idea for a workshop thread. The characters have name value, they just need to be reworked (ala JLU or YJ).

    El Dorado can be the powerhouse superhero of Mexico/Latin America. He's OP, if you look at his abilities. He's currently leading Justicia, but definitely needs a costume update and a defined origin.

    For Samurai, just introduce both Toshio and Asami as brother and sister with identical powers. They use them differently however. Base their looks off of YJ and JLU respectively.

    I don't know how to incorporate Apache Chief. The YJ version is probably the best, and he does come with cool astral projection powers, but I'd rather introduce him as an adult. Maybe mix the YJ and JLU versions together.

    Black Vulcan is unnecessary since we already have Black Lightning. Maybe have Black Lightning lead a team of "Outsiders" composed of El Dorado, Long Shadow, Toshio and Asami as a homage to SF/JLU/YJ.
    Last edited by El_Gato; 02-17-2018 at 12:49 PM.
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  8. #23
    Extraordinary Member Robotman's Avatar
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    They did a great job reinventing the characters on Young Justice. I would love to see DC introduce Long Shadow especially. It was such a cool way to reimagine Apache Chief.

  9. #24
    Mighty Member Jody Garland's Avatar
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    Their are some interesting bits about them that have popped up here and there that could be used as anchors. For instance, in the Super Powers miniseries, Samurai was established as having an origin linked to the Fourth World. Redesign him, give him a bit more defined powers, and I think he could work.

    I'd extend this to the Super Powers original characters as well: Golden Pharoah, Cyclotron, Captain Rey and the Abominable Snowman.

  10. #25
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    i've been pining for Apache Chief being intergrated into the DCU for decades now. the modern "stand ins" like Long Shadow are neat in their own right, but i won't be happy until i get an honest-to-goodness Apache Chief in the comics.

  11. #26

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    I'm hoping Apache chief, Samurai and El Dorado pop up in Black Lightning.

  12. #27
    DC Comics Forum Mod The Darknight Detective's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ed2962 View Post
    I have a few issues of the Rima series from the 70's. The stories aren't ground breaking but there's some really nice art.
    Boy, I thought she was a goddess back then. Like Jim Kelly, I also thought the stories were good.
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  13. #28
    It sucks to be right BohemiaDrinker's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ross61 View Post
    Because they’re racist caricatures.
    Well, there's that.

    Quote Originally Posted by Buried Alien View Post
    They could be reinvented to not be so, however. Check out how on the CW FLASH TV series how Vibe (Cisco Ramon), originally created in the 1980s as a racist stereotype of urban Latino youth culture, has been thoroughly reinvented as a much better character.

    Buried Alien (The Fastest Post Alive!)
    And also that. They also have been doing a good job with NuWally.

    That said, Manitou Raven was supposed to be a modern take on Apache Chief, and he was goddamn awesome. Black Vulcan sole reason for existing was some legal shenannigans between Hanna Barbera, DC and Tony Isabella, as I understand it. They couldn't/wouldn't use Black Lightning, so they created Black Vulcan (sleazy move, IMHO). El Dorado has appeared recently and is the most salvageable one, so there's that. Samurai is a lost case.
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  14. #29
    Savior of the Universe Flash Gordon's Avatar
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    "Apache Chief" is a caricature. All of them are.

    "Black Vulcan" was just a way around having to fairly pay to use Black Lightning.
    Follow your inner moonlight, do not hide the madness. -Ginsberg

  15. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by Flash Gordon View Post
    "Apache Chief" is a caricature. All of them are.

    "Black Vulcan" was just a way around having to fairly pay to use Black Lightning.
    So was Vibe once.

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