What is your definitive version of Superman?

[Jim Kelly]

The way the question was stated--"When you picture Superman in your mind, which version comes to mind for you?"--I had to be honest and thnk what image comes into my mind. I couldn't be clever. I wanted to use a pic from SUPERMAN No. 164 or a Wayne Boring pic of Superman that was in our encyclopedia in elementary school--but Superman flashing the peace sign was the image before me, when I closed my eyes, as it was in front of me for so many years when I woke up. It's imprinted on my brain. I can't not think of it.

[Last Son]

My definitive Superman goes something like this:

Traditional no-frills Krypton backstory, none of the extra Byrne-era stuff(except for maybe including the Eradicator in some form). The Phantom Zone exists and is full of Kryptonian convicts, including Zod, Non, Ursa, Jax-Ur, Faora, and Nam-Ek. Brainiac shrink and steals Kandor and Argo City survives the destruction of Krypton somehow(could be a dome or a force field, or even transforming it into a space ark, which lifts off from Krypton just as it explodes), with Kara Zor-El later being born and sent to Earth as a teen and becoming Supergirl. The Superman symbol originates as the family crest of the House of El and later inspires people(particularly Lois) to name Clark "Superman" when they mistake it for an S.

Clark grows up on a farm in Smallville, raised by Jonathan and Martha Kent, doesn't become a superhero until adulthood but maybe has a few superheroics under his belt before he puts on the suit. He has some superhuman ability from the moment he lands on Earth but doesn't fly or have heat vision until he's much older. His friends are Pete Ross and Lana Lang(who is also his girlfriend for a time). His main high school rival is Brad Wilson(from the Donner movies) who also dates Lana for a time. He learns of his Kryptonian heritage through the ship or memory crystal or some other Kryptonian device with holographic recordings. He then uses the ship or a device from the ship to build/help build the Fortress of Solitude in the Arctic.

Clark adopts a disguise in his civilian identity that includes glasses and altered mannerisms(though this isn't to say that Clark is a disguise and being Clark Kent isn't part of who he really is) when he goes to Metropolis to become a reporter at the Daily Planet, where he works under Editor Perry White and his co-workers are Lois Lane, Jimmy Olsen, Ron Troupe, and Steve Lombard.

His first major conflict as Superman is with his arch nemesis, Lex Luthor, who in my definitive version is purely a scientist/wanted criminal. He creates a cloning/duplicating device and uses it on Superman to create Bizarro and the first person to discover kryptonite and its effects on Superman. Later, criminal John Corben is in a wreck and Professor Vale discovers his body and uses him to create Metallo, powering him with kryptonite, maybe the same piece that Lex previously discovered and lost. This Metallo is built with an advanced metal alloy which is very difficult for Superman to damage(I never liked Superman being able to effortlessly break Metallo's arm once he managed to get a hold of him). Parasite is Raymond Jensen, a thief posing as a janitor at STAR Labs who attempts to steal a canister containing a substance Superman had collected while traveling in deep space and intends to sell it to a rival company but becomes exposed to it and becomes an energy-absorbing mutant who also takes on some of the abilities and characteristics of his prey, so when he attacks Superman, he has Superman's powers, not just the super strength.

I would also include some post crisis elements, like Vril Dox possessing Milton Fine, but he would be known as Brainiac 2, while the android is the original Brainiac. I've also thought of having two Lex's, with Lex Sr. as the businessman and Lex Jr. as the more traditional mad scientist version(Batman v Superman gave me the idea). This way, you could have pretty much all of the pre-crisis Lex stories and all the post crisis stories all in the same continuity.

[BBally]

Mainly Bronze Age Superman but with some elements from other eras.

[Powerboy]

My definitive Superman goes something like this:

Traditional no-frills Krypton backstory, none of the extra Byrne-era stuff(except for maybe including the Eradicator in some form). The Phantom Zone exists and is full of Kryptonian convicts, including Zod, Non, Ursa, Jax-Ur, Faora, and Nam-Ek. Brainiac shrink and steals Kandor and Argo City survives the destruction of Krypton somehow(could be a dome or a force field, or even transforming it into a space ark, which lifts off from Krypton just as it explodes), with Kara Zor-El later being born and sent to Earth as a teen and becoming Supergirl. The Superman symbol originates as the family crest of the House of El and later inspires people(particularly Lois) to name Clark "Superman" when they mistake it for an S.

Clark grows up on a farm in Smallville, raised by Jonathan and Martha Kent, doesn't become a superhero until adulthood but maybe has a few superheroics under his belt before he puts on the suit. He has some superhuman ability from the moment he lands on Earth but doesn't fly or have heat vision until he's much older. His friends are Pete Ross and Lana Lang(who is also his girlfriend for a time). His main high school rival is Brad Wilson(from the Donner movies) who also dates Lana for a time. He learns of his Kryptonian heritage through the ship or memory crystal or some other Kryptonian device with holographic recordings. He then uses the ship or a device from the ship to build/help build the Fortress of Solitude in the Arctic.

Clark adopts a disguise in his civilian identity that includes glasses and altered mannerisms(though this isn't to say that Clark is a disguise and being Clark Kent isn't part of who he really is) when he goes to Metropolis to become a reporter at the Daily Planet, where he works under Editor Perry White and his co-workers are Lois Lane, Jimmy Olsen, Ron Troupe, and Steve Lombard.

His first major conflict as Superman is with his arch nemesis, Lex Luthor, who in my definitive version is purely a scientist/wanted criminal. He creates a cloning/duplicating device and uses it on Superman to create Bizarro and the first person to discover kryptonite and its effects on Superman. Later, criminal John Corben is in a wreck and Professor Vale discovers his body and uses him to create Metallo, powering him with kryptonite, maybe the same piece that Lex previously discovered and lost. This Metallo is built with an advanced metal alloy which is very difficult for Superman to damage(I never liked Superman being able to effortlessly break Metallo's arm once he managed to get a hold of him). Parasite is Raymond Jensen, a thief posing as a janitor at STAR Labs who attempts to steal a canister containing a substance Superman had collected while traveling in deep space and intends to sell it to a rival company but becomes exposed to it and becomes an energy-absorbing mutant who also takes on some of the abilities and characteristics of his prey, so when he attacks Superman, he has Superman's powers, not just the super strength.

I would also include some post crisis elements, like Vril Dox possessing Milton Fine, but he would be known as Brainiac 2, while the android is the original Brainiac. I've also thought of having two Lex's, with Lex Sr. as the businessman and Lex Jr. as the more traditional mad scientist version(Batman v Superman gave me the idea). This way, you could have pretty much all of the pre-crisis Lex stories and all the post crisis stories all in the same continuity.

In some respects, I like "Batman/ Superman: generations" because it kind of takes all eras of Superman as valid although changing later eras to fit in with earlier eras being canon such as Superman aging very slowly but Lois Lane aging at a normal rate though long lived. Personally, I would prefer to just say that it's comic book reality and the adventures happened when they happened like they were shown and the heck with realistic aging.

I guess I could come up with an explanation to explain how he evolved into each era. I do love the early Golden Age but there's a sameness about it as he goes after one ordinary crime boss after another.

So, using your ideas as a template, first, the original Krypton as a representation of the fascination with growing science and technology that we had in the 1930s without the fear and seeing how it could go wrong or become overwhelming. No AI Jor-El. No S as the symbol of the House of El. Rocketship to Earth. Found by the Kents. Taken to the orphanage and then back by the Kents. Early life on the farm and then moving into Smallville and running the general store. I think we can safely make Smallville a town of a few hundred people plus hundreds more on farms in the region. This may seem a paltry difference but I grew up in the country near a small town so the difference between a town of a few hundred and a town of a few thousand is something that actually makes a difference when you live there.

Ah, the Superboy dilemma. I like the idea someone had of saying that he was more a myth around Smallville. A few saw him or even knew he existed but he was mostly a legend except he really did have adventures in the 30th century as a member of the Legion. This could also explain how he knows about Krypton and who he really is. It's just common knowledge in the 30th century. As to how time travel works and why he is allowed to know the future, well, I'll stay vague on that.

I think it's essential that Jonathan Kent does before he becomes Superman although I think that, at least in the early days, there can be a lot of drama with Martha Kent still being alive.

I think Clark keeping his identity from Lois is good for the first couple of years and then drop it. Jiminy Christmas, it's been done to death. Have him tell her or she figures it out. They have their ups and downs but they love each other and they get married. Enough with the True Romanced story tactics.

Oh, yes. Clark at home with the Kents as a boy or with Lois in private is himself. But the weak, timid Clark the public sees is a disguise.

His powers progress as they did in the comics but he probably starts his Superman career with all the powers. Maybe as Superboy, he only has the strength, durability and speed.

I like the idea that Superman goes up against normal crime for at least the first year and then the Ultra Humanite shows up as his first serious opponent. Soon enough, Lex Luthor shows up and the Humanite fades away or is defeated. Luthor's first plot is the same one it was in the golden age though maybe modernized a bit. Around this time, other super heroes and super villains start showing up but there have never been such beings before outside of mythology.

This could all start in 1938 and onward which would have Wonder Woman keeping her World War II adventures and even just ignore aging or it could always be updated again and again to more recently but then you have a considerable reset every decade. I'd prefer to just ignore aging to keep the supporting cast although I know it could get ridiculous. Lois and Jimmy sitting around in 2018 talking about something that happened in 1950 and Jimmy lamenting that he's still a rookie.

[DragonPiece]

I'm one of the type that like the idea that Clark really is who Superman is, and tend to prefer those takes on the character. I also like Lois that falls for Clark, and not just Superman, though I read a good argument that changed my mind on that point awhile ago on here so I guess that isn't a huge thing for me.

[TruthAndJustice]

I think of three things:

Christopher Reeve as Superman, All-Star Superman, and the Fleischer cartoon Superman.

Christopher Reeve really looked like the José Luis García-López Superman come to life. It was amazing. I still miss him.

[TruthAndJustice]

Steve Rude definitely is probably my favorite "modern" Superman artist: (And I've noticed now how he doesn't have just one Superman, but many different looks for him)
Attachment 62308

In some alternate universe Steve Rude drew SUPERMAN or ACTION COMICS for at least 100 issues. I wish to god I lived in that universe!

[TruthAndJustice]

One of the great things about Steve Rude is that he can draw Superman in different styles, and his Superman doesn't just look good as a product of that style. Like I'm a huge Jim Lee fan, but I don't think his Superman is especially good from the rest of his characters.

Rude is up there for me along with Toth, Frenz, Bog, and Cardy... well, almost anyone lol. Bob Oksner was sure outstanding. But overall I have to go with Ordway. I can't even post just one picture because it wouldn't quite get it all, but he's done so many great Superman covers and interiors that perfectly capture his powerful form and his gentle face.

When it comes to definitive, for me it has to be the comics because they're the source material. That's how he was intended and presented. Canon or not, though. So I strictly go with the Daily and Sunday newspaper strips 1939~1966, and the comic books cover dated October 1970 to the comics released December 2003 (AoS #623, Action 810, Volume 2 #200, etc). Including spinoffs, warts and all because otherwise it's head canon. My collection is a few years from what I consider perfect but I can't wait for the next IDW release, for one thing.

Here are some great snapshots from the comic books.

http://dccomicsartists.com/superart/BronzeAge.htm

http://dccomicsartists.com/superart/IronAge.htm

Regardless of what you think of the writing, nobody can deny that the post-MAN OF STEEL years had lots of great artists drawing Superman. The John Byrne/Karl Kesel pairing made for gorgeous artwork. Kerry Gammill and Tom Grummett both answered the question "what if John Buscema had been a Superman artist?" And Bob McLeod never gets the praise he deserves.

[Jim Kelly]

Regardless of what you think of the writing, nobody can deny that the post-MAN OF STEEL years had lots of great artists drawing Superman. The John Byrne/Karl Kesel pairing made for gorgeous artwork. Kerry Gammill and Tom Grummett both answered the question "what if John Buscema had been a Superman artist?" And Bob McLeod never gets the praise he deserves.

I can't deny that they were great artists, nor would I want to, but with few exceptions (Tom Grummet, George Perez), they didn't draw the Superman that I like. The Superman that I like has strength that comes from within, so he doesn't have to be drawn as a big muscle man. Jerry Ordway is a great artist and I respect his work on Superman, but it's not Superman as I like him.

My favourite John Byrne cover from that period is ACTION COMICS 597--probably because he was adjusting his style to give it a humorous note and a bit of Schaffenberger. Too bad the cover wasn't replicated inside the comic. Ironic.



The kinds of artists I'd like to have seen do more work on Superman back then would have been Paul Smith, Alan Davis, Steve Lightle.

[superduperman]

One of the great things about Steve Rude is that he can draw Superman in different styles, and his Superman doesn't just look good as a product of that style. Like I'm a huge Jim Lee fan, but I don't think his Superman is especially good from the rest of his characters.

Rude is up there for me along with Toth, Frenz, Bog, and Cardy... well, almost anyone lol. Bob Oksner was sure outstanding. But overall I have to go with Ordway. I can't even post just one picture because it wouldn't quite get it all, but he's done so many great Superman covers and interiors that perfectly capture his powerful form and his gentle face.

When it comes to definitive, for me it has to be the comics because they're the source material. That's how he was intended and presented. Canon or not, though. So I strictly go with the Daily and Sunday newspaper strips 1939~1966, and the comic books cover dated October 1970 to the comics released December 2003 (AoS #623, Action 810, Volume 2 #200, etc). Including spinoffs, warts and all because otherwise it's head canon. My collection is a few years from what I consider perfect but I can't wait for the next IDW release, for one thing.

Here are some great snapshots from the comic books.

http://dccomicsartists.com/superart/BronzeAge.htm

http://dccomicsartists.com/superart/IronAge.htm

I got Action #655 just today! Bob McLeod is a highly underrated artist and I'm surprised he hasn't done more.

[superduperman]

P.S. I'm sorry.

Black Hole Sun! Won't you come! And wash away the raaaaaiiiin!

[superduperman]

My ideal Superman is a combination of the Donner movies, Ruby Spears, and Smallville. Basically if it's based on the Donner movies, it's probably in there. No real Superboy career but he did have powers growing up and would sometimes use them in secret to help people. Stuff like the Legion or Krypto or the big complex backstory really doesn't do anything for me. I like the Fortress with the fancy trophies but other than that, I want my Superman kept simple. The GA Superman has a special place in my heart just because that's what his creators intended. I like the simplicity of it. He knows about Krypton from recordings left in his ship. His parents never kept his origins a secret from him. Krypton looks alien. Sort of like Byrne. Not a big fan of the "nerdy" Clark. Something more like George Reeves. A competent reporter but doesn't really stand out in any way. This is one of the reasons why I liked Birthright. Clark wasn't a goof, he just didn't do anything to draw attention to himself. I like the post-Crisis Supergirl. Was a teenager when Kal was born and sent to protect him but arrived too late. Luthor is a well known businessman but doesn't have the best reputation. He, of course, is an evil genius but he does what anyone would do in that situation, he uses it to make money! No, he and Clark did not grow up together. In fact, he's probably a good generation older. He mostly hates Superman because he interferes with his off the books criminal schemes.

[DragonPiece]

My ideal Superman is a combination of the Donner movies, Ruby Spears, and Smallville. Basically if it's based on the Donner movies, it's probably in there. No real Superboy career but he did have powers growing up and would sometimes use them in secret to help people. Stuff like the Legion or Krypto or the big complex backstory really doesn't do anything for me. I like the Fortress with the fancy trophies but other than that, I want my Superman kept simple. The GA Superman has a special place in my heart just because that's what his creators intended. I like the simplicity of it. He knows about Krypton from recordings left in his ship. His parents never kept his origins a secret from him. Krypton looks alien. Sort of like Byrne. Not a big fan of the "nerdy" Clark. Something more like George Reeves. A competent reporter but doesn't really stand out in any way. This is one of the reasons why I liked Birthright. Clark wasn't a goof, he just didn't do anything to draw attention to himself. I like the post-Crisis Supergirl. Was a teenager when Kal was born and sent to protect him but arrived too late. Luthor is a well known businessman but doesn't have the best reputation. He, of course, is an evil genius but he does what anyone would do in that situation, he uses it to make money! No, he and Clark did not grow up together. In fact, he's probably a good generation older. He mostly hates Superman because he interferes with his off the books criminal schemes.

I actually like that, my biggest pet peeve about stories with Superman being the real person is clark kent purposely acting goofy to get people from noticing he is superman. I get the purpose and it does work for movies, but it's not something I want to see in the comics constantly.

[KC]

The Silver Age Superman or the Superman from All-Star Superman.

[Powerboy]

My ideal Superman is a combination of the Donner movies, Ruby Spears, and Smallville. Basically if it's based on the Donner movies, it's probably in there. No real Superboy career but he did have powers growing up and would sometimes use them in secret to help people. Stuff like the Legion or Krypto or the big complex backstory really doesn't do anything for me. I like the Fortress with the fancy trophies but other than that, I want my Superman kept simple. The GA Superman has a special place in my heart just because that's what his creators intended. I like the simplicity of it. He knows about Krypton from recordings left in his ship. His parents never kept his origins a secret from him. Krypton looks alien. Sort of like Byrne. Not a big fan of the "nerdy" Clark. Something more like George Reeves. A competent reporter but doesn't really stand out in any way. This is one of the reasons why I liked Birthright. Clark wasn't a goof, he just didn't do anything to draw attention to himself. I like the post-Crisis Supergirl. Was a teenager when Kal was born and sent to protect him but arrived too late. Luthor is a well known businessman but doesn't have the best reputation. He, of course, is an evil genius but he does what anyone would do in that situation, he uses it to make money! No, he and Clark did not grow up together. In fact, he's probably a good generation older. He mostly hates Superman because he interferes with his off the books criminal schemes.

I didn't address the goofy Clark issue. While I love watching Chris Reeve's portrayal, I find that whole Cowardly Clark thing to have been done to death. The George Reeves portrayal of Clark as competent and even brave but not suicidally brave is a good one and I far prefer the Amy Adams Lois who is genuinely smart and a great reporter and cuts through the whole secret identity subplot and for exactly the same reason: I loved it in it's time but I have no wish to rehash yet again the whole "Lois doesn't know who he is and loves Superman but despises Clark's assumed cowardice." No! Please! Not again!