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  1. #436
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    The whole reason why they struggle to "elevate" other characters is because they're constantly shoving the same characters into tons of stuff. Someone before mentioned Cap having "more fans" that Wasp, well there's a really obvious reason for that, he gets pushed to the forefront FAR more and FAR more often that she does, so it's only natural.

    There's no reason why Tony, Cap, AND Thor need to hog three of these spots (especially since they rarely are the most interesting parts of Avengers books anyway). Really Carol is the only one who currently has her own book who I think should stay.

    I've never really cared for Dr. Strange on the Avengers, writers often struggle to make him fit. Someone like Clea, or Nico Minoru, or Magik, or Dr. Voodoo, etc would be more interesting imo.

    Wasp, Scarlet Witch, Vision, Spider-Woman, Monica Rambeau, Songbird, Ant Man, Black Widow, any number of X-Men characters, etc. So many possibilities, and THIS is the most "creative" that they can get, how disappointing.

  2. #437

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    Ya not the most original or fresh line up but again I get why Disney/Marvel are pushing Cap,Iron Man,Thor,Black Panther & Captain Marvel so hard going forward in the comicbooks to tie into the movies and as they have tried for years and its been proven not to work to hopefully bring in fresh eyes and fans of the folks that watch the movies and if they like the movies maybe they'll start buying the comicbooks(again which I strongly believe really has never happened to any real level of value)


    I do like the idea if they want A-Listers on the bigger team titles its a good idea instead of lumping them on all one team to spread them out instead.Something like lets say Thor on the only Avengers team and title,Cap restarting the Invaders and Iron Man restarting Force Works.This would give us three teams with one of the big three on them and leave roster spots opened for new characters to join.

  3. #438
    Uncanny Member XPac's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Holt View Post
    Well, Strange does have the Sanctum.
    I'm assuming if Strange has the rotating spot, they won't be crashing at his place. Or if they do it's temporary.

    Mansion is the safest bet, but We'll see.

  4. #439
    Uncanny Member XPac's Avatar
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    If people are tired of reading about Cap and Iron Man on Avengers, then maybe they should just try reading a different book.

    If you Don't like the Thing, Don't read Fantastic Four. If you Don't like Batman and Superman, don't read Justice League. To some degree certain characters belong on certain teams.

  5. #440
    Astonishing Member Johnrevenge's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Punisher007 View Post
    There's no reason why Tony, Cap, AND Thor need to hog three of these spots (especially since they rarely are the most interesting parts of Avengers books anyway). Really Carol is the only one who currently has her own book who I think should stay.

    I've never really cared for Dr. Strange on the Avengers, writers often struggle to make him fit. Someone like Clea, or Nico Minoru, or Magik, or Dr. Voodoo, etc would be more interesting imo.

    Wasp, Scarlet Witch, Vision, Spider-Woman, Monica Rambeau, Songbird, Ant Man, Black Widow, any number of X-Men characters, etc. So many possibilities, and THIS is the most "creative" that they can get, how disappointing.
    Agreed, it's such a waste what they are planning to do with the Avengers. Once No Surrender ends, the interest will die, at least for me.

  6. #441
    Astonishing Member Mary Jay's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by XPac View Post
    I'm assuming if Strange has the rotating spot, they won't be crashing at his place. Or if they do it's temporary.

    Mansion is the safest bet, but We'll see.
    The Mansion is Johnny Storm's now.
    "You don't raise yourself by stepping on somebody else"

    Currently looking for a pull list... Does near-mint West Coast Avengers count?

    #givebackthesuit
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  7. #442
    Uncanny Member XPac's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mary Jay View Post
    The Mansion is Johnny Storm's now.
    Luke sold it back to Stark for a buck back in the day. Maybe Johnny will do the same at some point.

  8. #443
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    Quote Originally Posted by Punisher007 View Post
    The whole reason why they struggle to "elevate" other characters is because they're constantly shoving the same characters into tons of stuff. Someone before mentioned Cap having "more fans" that Wasp, well there's a really obvious reason for that, he gets pushed to the forefront FAR more and FAR more often that she does, so it's only natural.

    There's no reason why Tony, Cap, AND Thor need to hog three of these spots (especially since they rarely are the most interesting parts of Avengers books anyway). Really Carol is the only one who currently has her own book who I think should stay.

    I've never really cared for Dr. Strange on the Avengers, writers often struggle to make him fit. Someone like Clea, or Nico Minoru, or Magik, or Dr. Voodoo, etc would be more interesting imo.

    Wasp, Scarlet Witch, Vision, Spider-Woman, Monica Rambeau, Songbird, Ant Man, Black Widow, any number of X-Men characters, etc. So many possibilities, and THIS is the most "creative" that they can get, how disappointing.
    Yeah, I really hope Clea and Songbird get out of limbo soon.
    I am not that against Stephen in Avengers, but again he is already the face and center of Marvel's mystic side.
    His fellows in magic community need that more.

  9. #444
    Astonishing Member pageturner's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by XPac View Post
    Luke sold it back to Stark for a buck back in the day. Maybe Johnny will do the same at some point.
    I think johnny put it all in trust for the Avengers. He went from having 15 billon to not be able to come up with 750,000 in MTIO.

    I would expect the mansion to be the headquarters.

  10. #445
    Ultimate Member Holt's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Punisher007 View Post
    The whole reason why they struggle to "elevate" other characters is because they're constantly shoving the same characters into tons of stuff. Someone before mentioned Cap having "more fans" that Wasp, well there's a really obvious reason for that, he gets pushed to the forefront FAR more and FAR more often that she does, so it's only natural.
    .
    Thing is, they've tried that a number of times and it's pretty consistently the Avengers with big gun line-ups that sell the best. It's like I said on another thread. Poor Al Ewing tried for several years to make a team book primarily consisting of B and C tier characters work with Mighty Avengers, New Avengers and most recently with U.S. Avengers, and they didn't sell well (which is a shame since I loved all three). There were similar attempts with stuff like Occupy Avengers, Avengers Academy, A-Force and Avengers A.I., but they just never sold as well as the big gun teams. The entire reason the original New Avengers relaunch even existed was because the Avengers book at the time wasn't lighting the sales charts on fire, and Bendis and Millar argued that a line-up featuring more A-listers like Spider-Man and Wolverine would sell better (and they were correct). People forget that Avengers being a top tier seller for Marvel was a very recent development, as prior to 2005 they were constantly being trounced in sales by powerhouses like the X-Men.

    The only Avengers spin-offs in recent memory I can even think of that were very successful were Secret Avengers and Uncanny Avengers.
    Last edited by Holt; 02-23-2018 at 08:28 PM.

  11. #446
    Moderator Frontier's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Holt View Post
    The only Avengers spin-off in recent memory I can even think of that was very successful was Uncanny Avengers.
    And that's probably because it had the big guns of both Avengers and X-Men on the roster (Cap, Wolverine, Thor, Rogue, Cable, Deadpool, etc.).

    It's also ironically the closest we've gotten to both Wasp and Scarlet Witch being on major Avengers teams again.

    I'm curious if the sales for Waid's run would've stayed higher then they did if he had a more traditional line-up, though I guess he had Iron Man, Jane, and Miles and Kamala to start with.

  12. #447
    Astonishing Member OBrianTallent's Avatar
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    I dont mind that some of the characters (the Big 3) are in the book, I just hate it when the majority of the characters have their own series and are showcased elsewhere. So far of this line-up...Thor, Iron Man, Captain America, Black Panther, Dr Strange (and presumably) Captain Marvel all have their own series. That only leaves She-Hulk and Ghost Rider in which stakes can be high. If they want all their big guns in an Avengers title, have more than one. Spotlight other characters. They cant' say it doesnt' work because Bendis helmed Avengers and New Avengers for more than a few years. I do miss then days when the Avengers was made up of characters who lived in the mansion and were the core of the team while others like Cap, Thor and Iron Man wandered in and out as the story dictated but weren't necessarily mainstays. Characters like Scarlet Witch, Wasp, Hawkeye, Beast, Wonder Man.
    The biggest problem (to me) is that the all the characters need to be written like they are major characters, not just the ones on the big screen. If they stick to that formula even, Marvel will fail as an intellectual property...after a while, Disney will want other characters to mine and there wont be any that fans know or care about enough to invest in because Marvel never tried to push them. Again, all just my opinion based entirely on the emotional response of not having more characters I like in an Avengers book.

  13. #448
    Astonishing Member Mary Jay's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Frontier View Post
    And that's probably because it had the big guns of both Avengers and X-Men on the roster (Cap, Wolverine, Thor, Rogue, Cable, Deadpool, etc.).

    It's also ironically the closest we've gotten to both Wasp and Scarlet Witch being on major Avengers teams again.

    I'm curious if the sales for Waid's run would've stayed higher then they did if he had a more traditional line-up, though I guess he had Iron Man, Jane, and Miles and Kamala to start with.
    I've always felt like the characters in Waid's Avengers weren't exactly the ones he wanted to write stories with. Officially we'll probably never know, or he might even say otherwise, but it sort of read like that. Granted, I only read a few issues, but it did feel like his heart wasn't in it completely, which may have accounted in part for the lower sales.

    Quote Originally Posted by OBrianTallent View Post
    I dont mind that some of the characters (the Big 3) are in the book, I just hate it when the majority of the characters have their own series and are showcased elsewhere. So far of this line-up...Thor, Iron Man, Captain America, Black Panther, Dr Strange (and presumably) Captain Marvel all have their own series. That only leaves She-Hulk and Ghost Rider in which stakes can be high. If they want all their big guns in an Avengers title, have more than one. Spotlight other characters. They cant' say it doesnt' work because Bendis helmed Avengers and New Avengers for more than a few years. I do miss then days when the Avengers was made up of characters who lived in the mansion and were the core of the team while others like Cap, Thor and Iron Man wandered in and out as the story dictated but weren't necessarily mainstays. Characters like Scarlet Witch, Wasp, Hawkeye, Beast, Wonder Man.
    The biggest problem (to me) is that the all the characters need to be written like they are major characters, not just the ones on the big screen. If they stick to that formula even, Marvel will fail as an intellectual property...after a while, Disney will want other characters to mine and there wont be any that fans know or care about enough to invest in because Marvel never tried to push them. Again, all just my opinion based entirely on the emotional response of not having more characters I like in an Avengers book.
    That's my feeling also. With such big names on the team, what place is there for She-Hulk and Ghost Rider? Will they be considered "secondary characters"? Will they have as much character development as the others? I hope I'm wrong, but looking at the roster, those two feel like filling more than anything else...
    "You don't raise yourself by stepping on somebody else"

    Currently looking for a pull list... Does near-mint West Coast Avengers count?

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  14. #449
    Moderator Frontier's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mary Jay View Post
    That's my feeling also. With such big names on the team, what place is there for She-Hulk and Ghost Rider? Will they be considered "secondary characters"? Will they have as much character development as the others? I hope I'm wrong, but looking at the roster, those two feel like filling more than anything else...
    Given they're the only two members of the team without their own solo books, I imagine they'll probably get more focus or development then the rest of the cast will.

  15. #450
    Astonishing Member Mary Jay's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Frontier View Post
    Given they're the only two members of the team without their own solo books, I imagine they'll probably get more focus or development then the rest of the cast will.
    Logic would dictate that, but I'm doubtful.
    "You don't raise yourself by stepping on somebody else"

    Currently looking for a pull list... Does near-mint West Coast Avengers count?

    #givebackthesuit
    #stopstealinghisstuff

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