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  1. #91
    D*mned Prince of Gotham JasonTodd428's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Deku View Post
    I think it is particularly egregious in this case because Bendis is getting full control over the two main books, and if Supergirl was cancelled so Bendis can use her, then DC is stopping any other way to read about a character just so Bendis can use them. But then again, if it ends up going well, it would be one of the rare instances where DC giving so much control to one person works out for the best.
    Yeah, I don't like that they gave him full control either and then as soon as they did here comes a bunch of cancellations. If things work out then that's fine but if they don't...
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    Oh my goodness gracious! I've been bamboozled!

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  2. #92
    Ultimate Member Sacred Knight's Avatar
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    I'd imagine the Super Sons cancellation has far more to do with Snyder and No Justice than Bendis. So I'm thinking the only cancellation that has directly to do with Bendis' plans is Supergirl.
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  3. #93
    D*mned Prince of Gotham JasonTodd428's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sacred Knight View Post
    I'd imagine the Super Sons cancellation has far more to do with Snyder and No Justice than Bendis. So I'm thinking the only cancellation that has directly to do with Bendis' plans is Supergirl.
    I just find the timing odd is all but you're right it could mean nothing more than what you've said. I'm just irritated about losing four of my five Super books for various reasons is all.
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    Oh my goodness gracious! I've been bamboozled!

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  4. #94
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    Do you guys see how DC has let Bendis and Snyder totally control the DCU? It used to be Morrison and John's,and in many ways it still is,but man this company is a bi##h

  5. #95
    Unstoppable Member KC's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by stephens2177 View Post
    Do you guys see how DC has let Bendis and Snyder totally control the DCU? It used to be Morrison and John's,and in many ways it still is,but man this company is a bi##h
    Bendis and Snyder are getting control over parts of the DCU but they are not in total control. There are still books that, as far as we can tell, will have no oversight or creative input from Bendis or Snyder.

  6. #96
    Extraordinary Member adrikito's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sacred Knight View Post
    I'd imagine the Super Sons cancellation has far more to do with Snyder and No Justice than Bendis. So I'm thinking the only cancellation that has directly to do with Bendis' plans is Supergirl.
    Yeah, Supergirl should be for Bendis...

    Snyder.. What are you planning with Damian? I need him in Teen Titans or a similar team book..

  7. #97
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    Let's just consider something for a moment - as part of the Bendispocalypse, DC have essentially cancelled five monthly titles (three whole books, and one issue apiece of Superman & Action Comics since they're being cut down to monthly). To meaningfully justify this, both books will have to settle a LOT higher than they have been. Let's take a look at http://www.comichron.com/monthlycomi...8/2018-01.html for January's orders...

    (Blue = Continuing Super-book; Red = Bendis; Italics = Cut Super-book)

    Unit rank (Dollar Rank) - Title (Price) - Company - Orders
    22 (42) - Superman #38 ($2.99) - DC - 47,261
    29 (50) - Superman #39 ($2.99) - DC - 44,402
    33 (53) - Action Comics #995 ($2.99) - DC - 41,987
    34 (58) - Action Comics #996 ($2.99) - DC - 41,331
    50 (45) - Super Sons #12 ($3.99) - DC - 35,068
    66 (61) - Invincible Iron Man #596 ($3.99) - Marvel - 29,540
    78 (68) - Supergirl #17 ($3.99) - DC - 26,466
    80 (71) - Spider-Man #236 ($3.99) - Marvel - 26,409
    93 (81) - Trinity #17 ($3.99) - DC - 24,530
    103 (98) - Defenders #9 ($3.99) - Marvel - 21,648
    122 (122) - Jessica Jones #16 ($3.99) - Marvel - 17,658

    ...umm...

  8. #98
    D*mned Prince of Gotham JasonTodd428's Avatar
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    Yeah, Bendis just isn't the sales juggernaut he once was and honestly, like I've said elsewhere, I'm not convinced that he can handle the more cosmic nature of Superman. Also I've no doubt that sales will be strong initially thanks to a new writer and a shiny new #1 but I looking forward to seeing what the numbers look like in six months or a year from those first issues.
    Last edited by JasonTodd428; 02-25-2018 at 10:50 PM.
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    Oh my goodness gracious! I've been bamboozled!

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  9. #99
    THE MARK OF MY DIGNITY Superlad93's Avatar
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    I feel like I have to say that I wouldn't say Tomasi was quite the whiz at handling the cosmic nature of Superman in any meaningful way during their run. At Tomasi's most cosmic, he put out Multiplicity, and it had a strong start and central idea, but pretty quickly turned into what is generally accepted to be a low point in the run. Before that he has his first arc end with a fist fight on the moon. Rather tame. His most well executed high concept story was probably Dinosaur Island; a simple two parter, and tribute issue to a late great creator. But in reality that arc was no more high concept than anything I've seen Bendis do, and it's actual strength, like Tomasi and Gleason's whole run, is in the warm and fuzzy factor of the character interactions and enthusiasm for the material.

    In my personal opinion, if we're talking about the fabled "cosmic" nature of Superman, well, it's been quite a while since we've see it get past first gear. We'd have to go back to Pak's first arc full of benign monsters, homemade taser rifle using farmgirls, and long lost underground civilizations to it really well done, in my opinion. Though, shout out to Tomasi and Gleason for the idea behind Black Dawn, but that was an example of ambition being far ahead of execution, and them falling back onto shock value (Lois leg fake out) and mind controlled "oh no Jon's bad now" punch ups that undercut what a solid and high concept set up it was. It's fair in saying this was another generally accepted low point in the run, yes?

    I understand the trepidation that some people have when it comes to Bendis, but functionally speaking he has the tools an sensibilities to at the very least do character work. No one would've given Tomasi this much credit before Rebirth. Before Rebirth, in the atmosphere of the New 52, he kind of sucked, no? No one was going up to bat for Tomasi over his Superman/Wonder Woman run before and after Truth.

    All I'm saying is, the context that a writer is put in should be taken into account. You simply don't know exactly how well a writer will write a character or type of material till they actually do it. Tomasi literally wrote Superman's character before Rebirth, and wasn't nearly as well received as his post-Rebirth stuff. Who here is to say that Bendis can't write a fantastic Superman comic in both the character and "cosmic" sense if he's never written Superman?

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  10. #100
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    Quote Originally Posted by SanityOrMadness View Post
    Let's just consider something for a moment - as part of the Bendispocalypse, DC have essentially cancelled five monthly titles (three whole books, and one issue apiece of Superman & Action Comics since they're being cut down to monthly). To meaningfully justify this, both books will have to settle a LOT higher than they have been. Let's take a look at http://www.comichron.com/monthlycomi...8/2018-01.html for January's orders...

    (Blue = Continuing Super-book; Red = Bendis; Italics = Cut Super-book)

    Unit rank (Dollar Rank) - Title (Price) - Company - Orders
    22 (42) - Superman #38 ($2.99) - DC - 47,261
    29 (50) - Superman #39 ($2.99) - DC - 44,402
    33 (53) - Action Comics #995 ($2.99) - DC - 41,987
    34 (58) - Action Comics #996 ($2.99) - DC - 41,331
    50 (45) - Super Sons #12 ($3.99) - DC - 35,068
    66 (61) - Invincible Iron Man #596 ($3.99) - Marvel - 29,540
    78 (68) - Supergirl #17 ($3.99) - DC - 26,466
    80 (71) - Spider-Man #236 ($3.99) - Marvel - 26,409
    93 (81) - Trinity #17 ($3.99) - DC - 24,530
    103 (98) - Defenders #9 ($3.99) - Marvel - 21,648
    122 (122) - Jessica Jones #16 ($3.99) - Marvel - 17,658

    ...umm...
    Action was going heading towards falling below 40k before Reborn hit and it's how riding on the issue #1000 hype. Superman wasn't as close to falling below 40k but it was recently helped by the Super Sons crossover. Both books are also helped by coming out bi-weekly.

    Super Sons was also helped by the crossover with Superman and Teen Titans. Supergirl was kept afloat by the recent variant covers which increased sales by 1000s.

    The Super books have been on borrowed time since Reborn. If sales crash under Bendis, it would mean he took them where they were heading under the current teams.

  11. #101
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    Well first of all, Tomasi wasn't given unlimited power during New 52, secondly he was made to write characters in settings he clearly didn't care for and most importantly the overwhelming majority of his run was him writing someone elses ideas.

    His only real contributions were the first arc of Superman/Wonder Woman which was ok and the Final Days story which was decent.

    Bendis on the other hand has been given unlimited power and we've seen all too well what happens when he's given power, the circumstances are not even remotely comparable. Even with Rebirth Tomasi wasn't given ultimate power. He still had to share direction of his core characters with Jurgens while Orlando worked on Supergirl and Jiminez/Jenkins handled Superwoman. I'm not really seeing any comparison with Bendis who literally will write both flagship books and is responsible for Supergirl as well and may even have had a hand in Super Sons cancellation. No one writer has ever been handed this much power, not even Morrison and Snyder on Batman. Most importantly if he fails then what? what choice do we as consumers have in that case?

    Frankly do you think he deserves it? especially after driving Iron Man in to the ground? that is the closest comparison not Tomasi. Really he's a Marvel guy who they just scooped up and suddenly they expect him to do what exactly? and this isn't even like Byrne who was at his peak when DC snatched him. Bendis is a parody of himself now.

    Could Bendis take Superman franchise to new heights? yes but given his track record we have a right to be cynical and if he dismally fails the damage he'll inflict will take years to undo because its unlikely that DC will get rid of him quickly. Guys like him, Slott and Aaron are leeches, they aren't content unless they've written dozens if not hundreds of issues.

  12. #102
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dolores - The Worst Poster Ever View Post
    Action was going heading towards falling below 40k before Reborn hit and it's how riding on the issue #1000 hype. Superman wasn't as close to falling below 40k but it was recently helped by the Super Sons crossover. Both books are also helped by coming out bi-weekly.

    Super Sons was also helped by the crossover with Superman and Teen Titans. Supergirl was kept afloat by the recent variant covers which increased sales by 1000s.

    The Super books have been on borrowed time since Reborn. If sales crash under Bendis, it would mean he took them where they were heading under the current teams.
    One small contained crossover and a naturally attainable number is just that natural.

    Super Sons likewise was part of one small small crossover and there's a big overlap between the readers of these books anyway.

    I dont care about Supergirl so whatever on that front.

    Bendis is getting relaunches, hype and major artists if books crash then its his fault. Lets not start making excuses for him, would you say that strong sales under him are because of Tomasi and Jurgens? then why exactly are we blaming them already for his potential failure. This isn't even like Johns JL or New 52 Superman line which was constantly subject to events and massive crossovers. Sales are reasonable stable and natural.

  13. #103
    The Detective Man The Dying Detective's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Barbatos666 View Post
    Well first of all, Tomasi wasn't given unlimited power during New 52, secondly he was made to write characters in settings he clearly didn't care for and most importantly the overwhelming majority of his run was him writing someone elses ideas.

    His only real contributions were the first arc of Superman/Wonder Woman which was ok and the Final Days story which was decent.

    Bendis on the other hand has been given unlimited power and we've seen all too well what happens when he's given power, the circumstances are not even remotely comparable. Even with Rebirth Tomasi wasn't given ultimate power. He still had to share direction of his core characters with Jurgens while Orlando worked on Supergirl and Jiminez/Jenkins handled Superwoman. I'm not really seeing any comparison with Bendis who literally will write both flagship books and is responsible for Supergirl as well and may even have had a hand in Super Sons cancellation. No one writer has ever been handed this much power, not even Morrison and Snyder on Batman. Most importantly if he fails then what? what choice do we as consumers have in that case?

    Frankly do you think he deserves it? especially after driving Iron Man in to the ground? that is the closest comparison not Tomasi. Really he's a Marvel guy who they just scooped up and suddenly they expect him to do what exactly? and this isn't even like Byrne who was at his peak when DC snatched him. Bendis is a parody of himself now.

    Could Bendis take Superman franchise to new heights? yes but given his track record we have a right to be cynical and if he dismally fails the damage he'll inflict will take years to undo because its unlikely that DC will get rid of him quickly. Guys like him, Slott and Aaron are leeches, they aren't content unless they've written dozens if not hundreds of issues.
    In some ways I found the idea of focusing on Clark Kent more appealing as a means to explore Superman from his roots as immigrant who found home on Earth and developed his moral code from his Earth parents as opposed to Kryptonian heritage heck give me Superman and that's what I would do.
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  14. #104
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    Quote Originally Posted by Barbatos666 View Post
    Bendis is getting relaunches, hype and major artists if books crash then its his fault. Lets not start making excuses for him, would you say that strong sales under him are because of Tomasi and Jurgens? then why exactly are we blaming them already for his potential failure. This isn't even like Johns JL or New 52 Superman line which was constantly subject to events and massive crossovers.
    I'm not absolving him of responsibility for sales crashing, if it happens. I'm pointing out that that replacing the current teams with Bendis is not a sales disaster waiting to happen, because the sales are heading towards a crash anyway with the current teams.

    If Bendis causes a sales crash with the relaunch he's getting, that'll be on him.

    Replacing the current teams is the right move, whether replacing them with Bendis is the right move is something we'll know when the time comes.

    Quote Originally Posted by Barbatos666 View Post
    Sales are reasonable stable and natural.
    The stability has been fading since Reborn. The handling of the Superman line since then has not been sustainable.

  15. #105
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    GL sales after Johns are a crash, this isn't a crash.

    Its perfectly sustainable, its not juiced up by events, relaunches, gimmicks, hot shot writers changing directions etc. The coming of Bendis looks more like it'll herald a crash.

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