Mighty Thor #704 *Spoliers*

[JKtheMac]

A child is ALWAYS relevant to a mom. Having the child not relevant shows ineptitude on the writers part, especially to throw it in this late in the game. This wreaks of, "There! Happy now, fanboys?!" No escaping that.

And wow... This hasn't been a character study about Jane? Sucks for all those feminist fans who were rallying to Fake Thor. Now, will they finally admit this?

Please take this rant elsewhere. This is blatantly trying to get a rise out of those of us that are discussing this calmly.

[Astroman]

A child is ALWAYS relevant to a mom. Having the child not relevant shows ineptitude on the writers part, especially to throw it in this late in the game. This wreaks of, "There! Happy now, fanboys?!" No escaping that.

Yeah, if this had come earlier it would have felt organic. This to me felt like a tacked-on 'fix' for something that should have been addressed in some way far earlier.

[numberthirty]

Yeah, if this had come earlier it would have felt organic. This to me felt like a tacked-on 'fix' for something that should have been addressed in some way far earlier.

No writer ever owes a reader what they feel was "The Right Way" to have approached something.

[numberthirty]

Never mind that Jane's actions up until now often lined up with someone who had lost a child even though the writer opted not to just blurt that reality out.

[vitruvian]

My point was that Jurgens did put them back together despite their almost irreconcilable problems. That suggests to me Jurgens had never read the previous run of Thor. Not that I would expect him to. But if you are going to do this then at least do something with it. Don't just drop the thread and then make the character walk off screen for the purposes of a wider plot.

Sure, but I wasn't speaking just to Jurgens, but the entire time since whenever Jane has appeared, whether as a significant supporting character or eventually revealed as actually the protagonist of the title.

And it's not just Jane. This whole time with Volstagg becoming the War Thor because he was unable to protect some kids on another of the Nine Worlds, I've become more and more annoyed at how long it's been since we've seen anything about his kids.

[JKtheMac]

Sure, but I wasn't speaking just to Jurgens, but the entire time since whenever Jane has appeared, whether as a significant supporting character or eventually revealed as actually the protagonist of the title.

And it's not just Jane. This whole time with Volstagg becoming the War Thor because he was unable to protect some kids on another of the Nine Worlds, I've become more and more annoyed at how long it's been since we've seen anything about his kids.

Well neither of these things are what the story is about so that's just the way it goes. This story is about analysing Thor from multiple angles and the concept of deity in a wider context. That really doesn't leave a lot of room for character studies about the little things like familial relationships. So instead Aaron chose to mention Keith and Jimmy in the context of her faith. Because that is what this story is about.

[vitruvian]

No writer ever owes a reader what they feel was "The Right Way" to have approached something.

No writer ever owes a reader anything, but neither does any reader owe a writer unreserved praise rather than criticism of their storytelling choices (or grammar, or style, or any other aspect of writing).

In fact, every time someone brings up the truism that writers don't 'owe' things to their readers, except in the context of folks like George R. R. Martin daring to have a life rather than working only on the next novel in a series, it seems like nothing more than an effort to preemptively shut down criticism and discussion.

[vitruvian]

Well neither of these things are what the story is about so that's just the way it goes. This story is about analysing Thor from multiple angles and the concept of deity in a wider context. That really doesn't leave a lot of room for character studies about the little things like familial relationships. So instead Aaron chose to mention Keith and Jimmy in the context of her faith. Because that is what this story is about.

Jane is Thor, so her character is entirely important to the story of Thor.

[JKtheMac]

Yeah, if this had come earlier it would have felt organic. This to me felt like a tacked-on 'fix' for something that should have been addressed in some way far earlier.

Stories are not written to satisfy individual notions of 'organic'. Aaron is a thematic writer. He addresses these ideas when they become relevant to the themes at hand. That was this week.

[JKtheMac]

Jane is Thor, so her character is entirely important to the story of Thor.

Actually that simple phrase may not be true. That is one of the central unanswered questions. Is Jane actually Thor, or are they two seperate individuals? This aside I answer this point above. This story is about something else. It happens to feature Jane in a leading role.

[JKtheMac]

No writer ever owes a reader anything, but neither does any reader owe a writer unreserved praise rather than criticism of their storytelling choices (or grammar, or style, or any other aspect of writing).

Nobody is asking you to heap praise upon the story. Contentious points are being debated, nothing more.

[numberthirty]

No writer ever owes a reader anything, but neither does any reader owe a writer unreserved praise rather than criticism of their storytelling choices (or grammar, or style, or any other aspect of writing).

In fact, every time someone brings up the truism that writers don't 'owe' things to their readers, except in the context of folks like George R. R. Martin daring to have a life rather than working only on the next novel in a series, it seems like nothing more than an effort to preemptively shut down criticism and discussion.

When the "Criticism" and discussion are essentially coming down to "Why Wasn't This Story Told In The Most Basic Way Possible? I Have Grown Accustomed To The Basic Approach And It Feels Organic.", it's not really about shutting them down or snubbing anyone.

That said, not every writer wants to have to drag the weight of telling a story in the most conventional way possible around while they are trying to do something a bit more complex than that.

[JKtheMac]

When the "Criticism" and discussion are essentially coming down to "Why Wasn't This Story Told In The Most Basic Way Possible. I Am Used To The Basic Approach And It Feels Organic.", it's not really about shutting them down or snubbing anyone.

That said, not every writer wants to have to drag the weight of telling a story in the most conventional way possible around while they are trying to do something a bit more complex than that.

And this story is far more complex than that. We have known Jane was the weilder of Mjölnir for about two years of this volume (Thors was not about Jane and Thor was deliberately not revealing who Thor was.)

In this time we have explored what it means to be a god from multiple angles, pitting Thor against carefully chosen antagonists and dramatic foils, or focused upon what is going on with the hammer having its own agency. At no point have we had a story that was a 'day in the life of Jane' had any reflection on her past, explored her realationships with anyone other than Odinson or generally focused upon Jane as anything other than the person that happens to be weilding the hammer. Aside of course her cancer, which itself feeds into the selfless and sacrificial notions of religion and deity.

Then came this issue - the point at which Jane is understandably in reflective mood. This is the logical time to do a 'day in the life' story and the logical time for her to think about family and her faith. That is my idea of 'organic' - addressing issues when they become relevant and tied to the themes being explored.

It is worth pointing out that Aaron had this story in mind and was talking about a Mangog confrontation even before he settled upon Jane being the person that would pick up Mjölnir. That is how 'not about Jane' this story is.

[vitruvian]

Aaron is basically saying that all gods have mostly ignored the prayers of man. Not that Asgardian's have ignored specific ones aimed at them. Figuratively those prayers could have been answered by them but they didn't see it as their job. Mangog is starting with Asgardia because he has personal beef with Odin and he was called back in the context of Thor.

The argument is that if you pray to the cosmos and a god that has the power to aid you ignores that prayer then what is the point of being a god.

Sure, but that argument is far less compelling if a) the god in question in fact lacks the power or omniscience to actually respond to most of those prayers and b) has not even claimed to be able or interested in doing so, at least not recently. I don't see how it counts unless the god could actually, not just figuratively, have answered the prayer, and the prayer was directed to them specifically.

I mean, sure, there's a sense in which that leaves gods such as the Asgardians and Olympians not actually gods in the sense of deities to be worshiped and prayed to, just still-powerful races who used to be worshiped as such.

And of course, I don't suppose there's much chance that Aaron will really delve into this whole issue and show us Mangog (or Gorr, etc.) going after any of the deities that the vast majority of Earthly prayers actually go to, is there?

[vitruvian]

When the "Criticism" and discussion are essentially coming down to "Why Wasn't This Story Told In The Most Basic Way Possible? I Have Grown Accustomed To The Basic Approach And It Feels Organic.", it's not really about shutting them down or snubbing anyone.

That said, not every writer wants to have to drag the weight of telling a story in the most conventional way possible around while they are trying to do something a bit more complex than that.

The point that there are different ways to tell a story besides the most basic way possible may be a valid one (although I'm not sure how you can be certain that's what was meant by 'organic' without telepathy), but if that was the point you were trying to make, I don't see how the question of what an author 'owes' the reader was in any way germane.