Why can't female villains be taken seriously?

[Frontier]

Silver Banshee was another victim of the New 52. She also turned good.

She also hasn't been seen in forever.

She was in the Rogues Gallery splash page for Superman: Reborn with the restored Superman, so she might be a villain again, but I don't think she's been seen since the New 52 Supergirl.

[Dr. Poison]

I think the reason the majority of female villains are treated poorly is due to sexism, honestly. Most of Wonder Woman's villains should be able to take down most of the Justice League with ease, instead Cheetah(who has the power of god) gets jobbed by Batman, Catwoman, and Green Arrow. Circe was also taken out by Batman. Cheetah, Circe, Giganta, Silver Swan, Queen Clea, and Gundra the Valkyrie should all be presented as forces to be reckoned with. The same goes for female villains of other heroes such as Volcana, Livewire, Siren(Mera's sister), Enchantress, Silver Banshee, Rampage, Granny Goodness & the Female Furies, Tala, Queen Bee(Zazalla), and Faora.

[Osiris-Rex]

I think the reason the majority of female villains are treated poorly is due to sexism, honestly. Most of Wonder Woman's villains should be able to take down most of the Justice League with ease, instead Cheetah(who has the power of god) gets jobbed by Batman, Catwoman, and Green Arrow. Circe was also taken out by Batman. Cheetah, Circe, Giganta, Silver Swan, Queen Clea, and Gundra the Valkyrie should all be presented as forces to be reckoned with. The same goes for female villains of other heroes such as Volcana, Livewire, Siren(Mera's sister), Enchantress, Silver Banshee, Rampage, Granny Goodness & the Female Furies, Tala, Queen Bee(Zazalla), and Faora.

Well of course Batman can take any of them down. He is Bat-god, more powerful then God Himself. So it's unfair to think these are lesser characters because Batman took them down.

[Barbatos666]

Well of course Batman can take any of them down. He is Bat-god, more powerful then God Himself. So it's unfair to think these are lesser characters because Batman took them down.

What about Green Arrow and Catwoman? are they more powerful than God too?

[Osiris-Rex]

What about Green Arrow and Catwoman? are they more powerful than God too?

No, that was just silly for Catwoman and Green Arrow to be able to do that. It's not like they are Batman.

[HandofPrometheus]

For Wonder Woman characters I don't think it's necessarily only sexism but they honestly don't care about her rogues gallery so they don't even try.

[Agent Z]

Be a unique Superman villain in an okayish rogues gallery.

Nolan films still used the successor angle. Superman/Maxima doesn't have to revolve around mating. Just take that idea and write stories around it while exploring new angles. But she needs to start somewhere.Characters develop with time, Ra's was pretty much a shipper for a long time. Begins came out decades after his existence.

Is that why she meandered for years before getting turned into a hero and then getting killed off? Take away the obsession with Superman's dick and she's just another alien conqueror in vein of Mongul or Zod.

There is no indication in the Nolan movies that Ra's wanted to pair off Bruce with Talia. Hell, I don't even think he wanted Bruce to be his heir, just another member of the League of Shadows.

Yeah characters develop with time and New 52 Maxima didn't have much time. Original Maxima did and the most noteworthy thing she did was sacrificing herself in Our Worlds At War.

[Agent Z]

Honest question - are you basing this off of appearances in other media besides the comics? Have you read any of Roger Stern's or Dan Jurgens' comic work with her?

She had quite the character arc from her introduction (1989) til her death (2002); it wasn't all great, but there's more there than the horny, psychotic minx that Smallville and TAS portrayed her as...

Stern was the one who created her and established that characterization of her in the first place. Jurgens IIRC, wrote her as a hero. Which reinforces my point that her original depiction was nothing to be proud of.

[Agent Z]

One would hope this would be true of Cheshire, whose poisonous, mass-murdering past should cause enough visceral disgust that even Roy Harper would stop thinking with his little head. (And create a desire that Lian never have any contact with this damaged and damaging sociopath whatsoever.) But he always seemed more sentimental than horrified concerning her. (I'm thinking more of the pre-Flashpoint era, since, nowadays, we can't really say for certain which or her famous crimes she has committed in the current DCU continuity. Or, "continuity.")

Funny thing is, this isn't how Jade started out. In her original appearances, she went out of her way to make sure bystanders were never harmed by her hits and even once refused to murder a South African black man that her racist employers had hired to kill. She was actually more moral than Slade in his earlier appearances.

And while Roy viewed Jade with rose-tinted glasses, he was the exception to the rule. Everyone else she interacted with treated her unambiguous contempt. Unlike Slade who DC saw as a tragic villain despite stuff like statutory rape and blowing up a city under his belt.

[Barbatos666]

Is that why she meandered for years before getting turned into a hero and then getting killed off? Take away the obsession with Superman's dick and she's just another alien conqueror in vein of Mongul or Zod.

There is no indication in the Nolan movies that Ra's wanted to pair off Bruce with Talia. Hell, I don't even think he wanted Bruce to be his heir, just another member of the League of Shadows.

Yeah characters develop with time and New 52 Maxima didn't have much time. Original Maxima did and the most noteworthy thing she did was sacrificing herself in Our Worlds At War.

Why take it away? if she has an edge then build on it and the reason they aren't building on it is because they're afraid of Liberal media.

"You were my greatest student, it should be you standing by my side saving the world", story wise Ra's was the closest thing Bruce had to a father. Fatherhood was a constant theme in Begins and Ra's, Alfred, Gordon, Lucius were father figure stand ins in their own way.

New 52 Maxima was DOA, no Superman writer was ever going to touch her and secondary books always have a finite shelf life. Original Maxima is a victim of politics, writers probably do want to use her but cant because of repercussions so they'd rather not use her. They'd rather she stayed dead instead of being unrecognizable and in the process Superman is deprived of what can easily be his greatest female rogue and probably one of his greatest rogues period.

[Doctor Bifrost]

Unlike Slade who DC saw as a tragic villain despite stuff like statutory rape and blowing up a city under his belt.

Slade is one of those characters - like Harley Quinn and Lobo - who have a "narrative distortion field" around them; superheroes frequently act entirely out of character when dealing with them, setting aside their long history of horrific crimes, because they're so cool or cute or the Main Man or hyper-manly or something. Or, rather, because they're marketable - which really shouldn't influence the choices of superheroes in-story.

[Osiris-Rex]

New 52 Maxima was DOA, no Superman writer was ever going to touch her and secondary books always have a finite shelf life. Original Maxima is a victim of politics, writers probably do want to use her but cant because of repercussions so they'd rather not use her. They'd rather she stayed dead instead of being unrecognizable and in the process Superman is deprived of what can easily be his greatest female rogue and probably one of his greatest rogues period.

So it the Supergirl TV series the last time we saw Maxima? Maxima did bring up wanting Superman as her mate, which Supergirl felt was gross. As that was in the season 1 finale I am guessing that Maxima
is still locked up in the DEO underground facility these past two years.

[Agent Z]

Why take it away?

Because it’s a stupid motivation for a villain.

if she has an edge then build on it and the reason they aren't building on it is because they're afraid of Liberal media.

She never had a an edge. She had a motivation that was annoyingly common among many female villains and DC realized that eventually. None of the adaptations of Maxima that used her original depiction have managed to make her anything more than a pathetic joke.

"You were my greatest student, it should be you standing by my side saving the world",

Know who else was standing by Ra’s side? Every one who was loyal to him. Ra’s didn’t treat Bruce any differently from the other LoS members and hell he flat out tried to kill him the second he realized he wouldn’t be loyal to the League. Ra’s in the comics keeps giving Bruce chances to join him.

story wise Ra's was the closest thing Bruce had to a father.

So Alfred wasn’t in the movie then? Hell, Fox and even Gordon were more father figures than Ra’s.

New 52 Maxima was DOA, no Superman writer was ever going to touch her

Citations needed.

Original Maxima is a victim of politics, writers probably do want to use her but cant because of repercussions so they'd rather not use her. They'd rather she stayed dead instead of being unrecognizable and in the process Superman is deprived of what can easily be his greatest female rogue and probably one of his greatest rogues period.

If original Maxima is the best female rogue the Superman brand can offer, then it truly is hopeless. Livewire proved a far better use of a female villain than original Maxima.

And if you think original Maxima is a victim of politics, what do you think was keeping New 52 Maxima down in the first place? Liberal views aren't the only ones that have weight. Why do you think so few of DC's LGBTQ characters are in use?

[adrikito]

[*]Are female villains treated differently from male ones?


Maleness.. and people wanting to redeem certain female characters, like Poison Ivy.. DC can´t use these characters in bigger things. The people even want to redeem Talia(one assasin).

[*]Why does it seem that the majority of powerful villains at a global scale are men?

Many people wanting to redeem certain female characters... You can´t make these characters better villains.

[*]What female villains do you think could be elevated to a higher standing in the DC Universe?

Poison Ivy and Talia(Eco-terrorism)
Killer Frost(a new age of ice)
Earth 3 Superwoman
Circe(with magic you can make big things, control important people)

[scary harpy]

Are we just hitting the limits of the genre?

It is a good vs. vile morality play combined with a male power-fantasy. Could this be the problem with villainesses?

Wonder Woman has more villainess than several male heroes combined. They were never developed. Of course, stupid decisions were made concerning her only comic that never would have been considered for Batman or Superman.

Are powerful women, good or bad, problematic for super-heroic stories?

No one is bothered if Superman punches Lex despite Luthor being much less strong and tough. Superman punching a woman who is as strong and tough as he still seems problematic somehow.