Death and Return of Superman movie will be set in the New 52

[Nelliebly]

It's degrading because, just like in Rebirth, Diana is thrown under the bus. I wonder if they also make her tell that she was with Clark because it was easy (when it never was) or that she is just good at sex and nothing else, like in Rucka's Rebirth garbage of a run. Probably both. WHich was false on both account, I've the issues to prove that it was neither easy, nor just sex, but a full-blown and extremely strong romance, which had to be purposefully torpedoed by Tomasi to be removed. Meanwhile, Lois (which I find insufferable because she is not even a proper character, just an arm candy suddenly able to have crazy feats out of nowhere, like using the Hellbat suit, owning the Female Furies on Apokalips or infiltrating a whole dictatorship prison without too much difficulties, to name the latest and most blatant "feats", when she is just a journalist - and no, investigative reporters aren't super-commando, that's not how it works) is propped as this awesome foundation for Superman and apparently can't be anything if she isn't with him at all time, everywhere, everytime. But she is just like the underwear on the outside : outdated in that fashion.

And you're constructing things I never said. Diana obviously can (and should) develop well enough for herself without anyone in the DCAU (or the comics, or everywhere). But the DCAU was the last place where I could find a Superman and a Wonder Woman I could care about. Despite D.C. pathetic attempt to say that Reborn Superman is also the New 52, it is not the case in comics, and I hoped that the animated movies would be able to accommodate two lines for Superman and Wonder Woman, an "official" one going with Rebirth and all, and an "Elseworld" continuing the New 52. I was wrong.

Concerning the merchandising, you are factually wrong, in that D.C. purposefully add the mentions that they are a "power couple" when putting SM/WW stuff. If they wanted them to be portrayed as friends (as they should if they didn't try to be blatantly hypocritical about the whole thing), they could marked it as "the super friends" or the "wonder friends". They don't, and I feel insulted because it seems that they see fans of the SM/WW as idiots. That's a problem, and hadn't helped me care at all about the Rebirth version of those characters.

Your comments about Lois are obviously cruel and go a long way to addressing the point I was trying to make above. I also don't agree with your interpretation of Rucka's choices. But I'm not going to go off-topic by addressing all of them. All I'll say is that I don't think it's remotely fair or true that Lois is an outdated figure. If anything, I would argue that her role as a female investigative reporter is more relevant and important than ever. Female journalists from Nellie Bly (who Lois was based on) Ida B. Wells etc have made a lot of positive change in this world. Lauren Duca of Teen Vogue is currently a new voice for a new generation and there are other female journalists fighting the good fight right now. The role of a female reporter trying to expose truth and fight injustice will never be outdated so long as corruption exists. I hope we see some of that in this movie.

I'm truly sorry that you don't feel as though can you can like Superman and Wonder Woman if they aren't together in this movie. I hope the film eventually changes your mind and wish you the best.

[Clark_Kent]

I watched the "sneak peek" attached to the SS movie. I'm still incredibly disappointed...I'm not sure why they said last year that this was a 2-parter so they could be "as faithful as possible" to the original story. I know they do 2 in-continuity and 1 out every year, and we already have Gotham by Gaslight this year, but I'd have preferred to wait another year if it meant getting something like TDKR. It's not "faithful" to the story to set it in their N52 inspired animated universe. Oh well.

I'll buy it & watch it just to see if they get Henshaw right...he's my favorite villain in all of comics, and he's never been done outside the books (Supergirl TV show doesn't count). So fingers crossed...

Also, the sneak peek says SPRING 2018 for part 1...seems a little quick, and an awful long wait for part 2 in 2019. But it doesn't appear to be July/August like we were all guessing in this thread.

[Nelliebly]

I watched the "sneak peek" attached to the SS movie. I'm still incredibly disappointed...I'm not sure why they said last year that this was a 2-parter so they could be "as faithful as possible" to the original story. I know they do 2 in-continuity and 1 out every year, and we already have Gotham by Gaslight this year, but I'd have preferred to wait another year if it meant getting something like TDKR. It's not "faithful" to the story to set it in their N52 inspired animated universe. Oh well.

I'll buy it & watch it just to see if they get Henshaw right...he's my favorite villain in all of comics, and he's never been done outside the books (Supergirl TV show doesn't count). So fingers crossed...

Also, the sneak peek says SPRING 2018 for part 1...seems a little quick, and an awful long wait for part 2 in 2019. But it doesn't appear to be July/August like we were all guessing in this thread.

I'm sorry...can you clarify? The sneak peak came out today attached to the Suicide Squad movie and implied it was debuting this Spring? Huh. That's weird. I would have assumed comic con?

[Clark_Kent]

I'm sorry...can you clarify? The sneak peak came out today attached to the Suicide Squad movie and implied it was debuting this Spring? Huh. That's weird. I would have assumed comic con?

Yep. At the very end of the sneak peek, it gives the DoS title card (cape blowing in the wind), and then "COMING SPRING 2018"

Edit: it's at the 7:05 mark, in fact.

[rpmaluki]

I fail to see how Lois, as an investigative reporter is outdated in this age. The world needs more people like her, who pursue the truth no matter what.

[Miles To Go]

I fail to see how Lois, as an investigative reporter is outdated in this age. The world needs more people like her, who pursue the truth no matter what.

Agreed. Lois being able to stand out using just regular resources, her convictions and sense of justice is what keeps people coming back to her, she can do so much with so little, and she has an endearing everywoman quality that Diana cannot replicate.

[Korath]

I'm truly sorry that you don't feel as though can you can like Superman and Wonder Woman if they aren't together in this movie. I hope the film eventually changes your mind and wish you the best.

It won't, because I won't watch it. I've read Death and Return of Superman, and I already knows that it's better than what the film can ever hope to achieve, with the premise it's using.

Also, I don't feel that I'm cruel to Lois, I'm just saying that she isn't depicted as an investigative journalist (mainly because their true works would probably looks really boring, but still), especially recently, where she is just Superman's wife and Superboy's mom, which I hardly find great for a female character. She should be more than just somebody's girl/woman/mother, but comics fails to depict her that way far too often, so I fail to care about her, that's all.

[rpmaluki]

It won't, because I won't watch it. I've read Death and Return of Superman, and I already knows that it's better than what the film can ever hope to achieve, with the premise it's using.

Also, I don't feel that I'm cruel to Lois, I'm just saying that she isn't depicted as an investigative journalist (mainly because their true works would probably looks really boring, but still), especially recently, where she is just Superman's wife and Superboy's mom, which I hardly find great for a female character. She should be more than just somebody's girl/woman/mother, but comics fails to depict her that way far too often, so I fail to care about her, that's all.

She was in the L&C mini a few years back and as probably discussed ad nauseum, Rebirth/Reborn Superman books leaned too heavily on establishing Jon, so Lois' professional role was reduced significantly in one book or was nearly non existence in another. That doesn't mean she is no longer the person we've always known her to be when the books are/were focusing a lot on Clark and Jon.

Edit: Lois can be mother, wife, daughter and a journalist all at once and there's nothing wrong with that. If real life people can evolve and fill up new roles to play, that doesn't negate the past roles, so can Lois.

Clark has always been a farm boy, a journalist, Superman, as well as a boyfriend and yet there were no complaints about him being depicted in one specific role (except of course when it comes to the person he's romantically linked) same has to apply to Lois. She's allowed to wear as many "hats" as she wants/as many as they will let her without readers shaming her for it.

[Nelliebly]

It won't, because I won't watch it. I've read Death and Return of Superman, and I already knows that it's better than what the film can ever hope to achieve, with the premise it's using.

Also, I don't feel that I'm cruel to Lois, I'm just saying that she isn't depicted as an investigative journalist (mainly because their true works would probably looks really boring, but still), especially recently, where she is just Superman's wife and Superboy's mom, which I hardly find great for a female character. She should be more than just somebody's girl/woman/mother, but comics fails to depict her that way far too often, so I fail to care about her, that's all.

I don't think it's fair to state anything about the film until we've actually seen it. In general, it's difficult for adaptations to ever have quite the same detail as the source material they pull from but that doesn't mean they are without value. We really won't know until we actually see it.


Nobody has been more critical of the way Tomasi/Gleason have treated Lois than I have but that is not the whole sum of the character by any means which is distinctly why I've complained about it. Lois has long been more than "just somebody's girl/mother/woman" and the fact that Tomasi and Gleason didn't do the best job of honoring that doesn't change her history. It's not the sum of how she's depicted even now in comics. She was portrayed as quite the investigator for the entire Jurgens Lois and Clark comic and was often written in that role in the ACtion Comics book. She just played a large role in the DC superhero girls "Dating with Disaster" book which was heavily marketed to young girls. Shea Fontana actually shared on twitter that she got the most comments from young girls about Lois's scenes with the Mayor in that book as she fought to expose him and he dismissed her. That part really resonated with my niece too. Finally, the Lois Young Adult novels were a very successful trilogy and, I would guess, have now paved the way for the Metropolis TV Show that's coming.

Finally, the presence of "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman" as well as the final seasons of Smallville dispute your claim that focusing on Lois as a journalist is "really boring." Lois and Clark, as a series, was essentially a journalist narrative first and foremost and a superhero show second. Both series did very well by focusing on Lois as an investigator. I think there is a good chance that lois will have a big role in this film given her big role in the source material. We may see her investigating the new Supermen which would be GREAT! Lois is allowed to be a wife and mother and investigator and the goal is to get the balance right. I hope this movie and any future movie does that.

Look, I understand that you are hurt that your ship is going away. I really do get that. And I'm trying hard to be empathetic to you guys about that. But we don't know anything about this movie until we actually see it. And I want to stay on-topic here about THIS MOVIE. Taking cheap shots at Lois is becoming a pattern in this thread and that's not really helping us talk about this movie and what we may or may not expect from it. Wishing you the best, ok? I truly do hope you find something you like going forward.

[rpmaluki]

Action Comics definitely did better in showing professional Lois Lane doing what she did best and I liked it better of the two Superman books for it.

[The Dying Detective]

Action Comics definitely did better in showing professional Lois Lane doing what she did best and I liked it better of the two Superman books for it.

Well someone has to highlight Superman's family life and I like the Superman book for that.

[Kuwagaton]

we don't know anything about this movie until we actually see it. And I want to stay on-topic here about THIS MOVIE. Taking cheap shots at Lois is becoming a pattern in this thread and that's not really helping us talk about this movie and what we may or may not expect from it. Wishing you the best, ok? I truly do hope you find something you like going forward.

Well said. I'd at least wait for an interview on why they're mixing the story up like this before talking about characters being thrown under the bus.

[rpmaluki]

Well someone has to highlight Superman's family life and I like the Superman book for that.

It was good that the books focused on different things. I have nothing against the Superman book since I do love Clark and Lois together and adore Jon. I'm just not thrilled at Lois being minimised by readers as nothing more than a sort of stepford wife, that is now a shadow of her former self when in reality she isn't, whom some feel would do well to disappear completely whether from the Superman books or his life as if she has no role to play at all.

[rpmaluki]

Well said. I'd at least wait for an interview on why they're mixing the story up like this before talking about characters being thrown under the bus.

I was thinking the exact same thing. Clearly WW's part has been upped in this story but that's not the same as throwing her under the bus because this particular story involves Lois being Superman's L.I. or wife or whatever. There could be any number of reasons why they are using N52 to tell this story and I don't think it's to maliciously crap on anyone, WW, or the SM/WW fans. They are likely leading towards Rebirth/Reborn Superman after Reign. DC animation may not follow the comics verbatim but I figure they eventually want their universe to align somewhat with the DCU. This seems to be the shorthand way of getting it done.

[MosSuperman]

I was thinking the exact same thing. Clearly WW's part has been upped in this story but that's not the same as throwing her under the bus because this particular story involves Lois being Superman's L.I. or wife or whatever. There could be any number of reasons why they are using N52 to tell this story and I don't think it's to maliciously crap on anyone, WW, or the SM/WW fans. They are likely leading towards Rebirth/Reborn Superman after Reign. DC animation may not follow the comics verbatim but I figure they eventually want their universe to align somewhat with the DCU. This seems to be the shorthand way of getting it done.

I'm not even going to bother with their animated universe if they try and do a rebirth.