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  1. #361
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    Quote Originally Posted by JAK View Post
    Call it morbid curiosity on my part, since I feel you couldn't be more wrong, but.... what - in your opinion - is the "actual meat" of the story?

    Because what I see as the meat of the story was lost almost completely in the 2007 version. Imo, it's a complete retelling, not any kind of real adaptation.
    To one who actually knows the story, "Superman: Doomsday" is bland tofu shaped as a steak trying to pass as steak with none of the steak flavor. Not "actual meat".
    Last edited by C-Dot; 03-30-2018 at 03:27 PM.

  2. #362
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    What I'm really curious about is are they gonna use Connor? And if they do, what are they gonna do with him afterwards? Is he gonna go to the Teen Titans? Are they gonna switch the Robin Superboy relationship around and make him friends with Damian? Is he still gonna be half Lex? Is he gonna have Kryptonian powers or the tactile telekinesis?

  3. #363
    (formerly "Superman") JAK's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by C-Dot View Post
    To one who actually knows the story, "Superman: Doomsday" is bland tofu shaped as a steak trying to pass as steak with none of the steak flavor. Not "actual meat".
    All I can think of now is the line: “It’s like a human only living on tofu, it keeps you strong, but you’re never fully satisfied.” lol

    in all sincerity, though, it's different enough that I could see some enjoying the approach if they don't know much about the original books or if they find the context of other threads that exist in it too confusing.

    It probably would have been better received if it were somehow tied to the S:TAS universe. BUT.. when DC announced it was going to do animated stories, they said "we want to bring your favorite stories to life in animation" or something like that "... starting with the Death and Return Of Superman". Giving all indications that they'd do them at least somewhat faithfully.

    Then, with that expectation that these would be fairly faithful... we started hearing about "Superman: Doomsday". And before it even came out, we knew that they'd basically lied about what we'd be getting. Yes, I know to some that sounds like hyperbole, but I'm serious. What we were told we'd get is NOT even close to what we ended up with. I'm glad I got the Walmart version, because the best part of the whole thing was the documentary about how the comics story came to be - featuring the people that did it. That was, by far, the best part of the whole thing for me. The main positive we got from it was that the movies after "Doomsday" were considerably more faithful to the source material because of the general fan outcry.

    Now, if they'd set up a different expectation, it'd be different. But then, like now, they said one thing and are doing another. And I'm not participating this time. Not to mention that, given all the New52 vs Post-Crisis Superman we've gone through, I get to see the iconic cape shot with the New52's emblem on it. I don't bear ill will to the character anymore, but still... that puts me off and takes me out of it. It probably shouldn't.. but I'm sorry. It does.
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  4. #364
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    Quote Originally Posted by blitzwolf215 View Post
    What I'm really curious about is are they gonna use Connor? And if they do, what are they gonna do with him afterwards? Is he gonna go to the Teen Titans? Are they gonna switch the Robin Superboy relationship around and make him friends with Damian? Is he still gonna be half Lex? Is he gonna have Kryptonian powers or the tactile telekinesis?

    They should use Kon,it's not a true Reign without him.

    In the animated universe Kon could join the Titans,but no thanks that's already a full batch imo.kon should open the DCAU to new branches,that the JL,suicide squad,TT,and JLD don't breach.

    And no I don't want him around Damian,unless to kick him into space.

    DC has burned the lex and donor into ppl brains,so I'm sure it'll stay,but how about just doing the Smallville root and STARTING with Kon being a lex clone,and then adding Clark's DNA.that way he is a human super clone,not a hybrid clone thing,and he can play up lex as dad,and get rid Clark as dad BS I don't like.

    Powerwise if they are smart they will give him a 50/50 split of both Kryptonian and TTK powers,where when one side is flawed the other strengthens him.like his kryptonian side shouldn't allow him to fly,but his TTK should,where his superspeed should come from his kryptonian side,but his super fast flight should come from his TTK side.

    It would be a travesty if Kon gets pushed out of this Reign adaption.

  5. #365
    Is The Best Monk The Red Monk's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by JAK View Post
    Call it morbid curiosity on my part, since I feel you couldn't be more wrong, but.... what - in your opinion - is the "actual meat" of the story?

    Because what I see as the meat of the story was lost almost completely in the 2007 version. Imo, it's a complete retelling, not any kind of real adaptation.
    Superman fights a monster in a fight for his life, he dies killing it, an impostor/impostors rise up to replace him but do a shitty job of it, then Superman comes back to life to kick their ass and reclaim his rightful place.

    That's the fundamental core of the whole story. Everything else is padding and most of it is not even good padding.

    My question is, what do YOU see as the actual meat of the story?

    P.S: And finally, it pisses me off that DC has wasted yet MORE money on one of the only 2 or 3 Superman stories they seem to care about instead of digging deeper for something ACTUALLY GOOD. A goddamn Our Worlds At War adaption would be better than this. Yes, seeing Superman and company fight a discount Galactus is still more fun than seeing him get beat into a coma by Doomsday for the umpteenth time.
    "If you're afraid - don't do it - and if you're doing it - don't be afraid!" - Genghis Khan

  6. #366
    Extraordinary Member Jokerz79's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by The Red Monk View Post
    Superman fights a monster in a fight for his life, he dies killing it, an impostor/impostors rise up to replace him but do a shitty job of it, then Superman comes back to life to kick their ass and reclaim his rightful place.

    That's the fundamental core of the whole story. Everything else is padding and most of it is not even good padding.

    My question is, what do YOU see as the actual meat of the story?

    P.S: And finally, it pisses me off that DC has wasted yet MORE money on one of the only 2 or 3 Superman stories they seem to care about instead of digging deeper for something ACTUALLY GOOD. A goddamn Our Worlds At War adaption would be better than this. Yes, seeing Superman and company fight a discount Galactus is still more fun than seeing him get beat into a coma by Doomsday for the umpteenth time.
    Seeing Superman's Friends, Family, and Fellow Heroes dealing with the loss of Superman and trying to figure out who these four new Supermen are is the meat of the story. The death is just the plot point to get there.

  7. #367
    Mighty Member Lokimaru's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by JAK View Post
    All I can think of now is the line: “It’s like a human only living on tofu, it keeps you strong, but you’re never fully satisfied.” lol

    in all sincerity, though, it's different enough that I could see some enjoying the approach if they don't know much about the original books or if they find the context of other threads that exist in it too confusing.

    It probably would have been better received if it were somehow tied to the S:TAS universe. BUT.. when DC announced it was going to do animated stories, they said "we want to bring your favorite stories to life in animation" or something like that "... starting with the Death and Return Of Superman". Giving all indications that they'd do them at least somewhat faithfully.

    Then, with that expectation that these would be fairly faithful... we started hearing about "Superman: Doomsday". And before it even came out, we knew that they'd basically lied about what we'd be getting. Yes, I know to some that sounds like hyperbole, but I'm serious. What we were told we'd get is NOT even close to what we ended up with. I'm glad I got the Walmart version, because the best part of the whole thing was the documentary about how the comics story came to be - featuring the people that did it. That was, by far, the best part of the whole thing for me. The main positive we got from it was that the movies after "Doomsday" were considerably more faithful to the source material because of the general fan outcry.

    Now, if they'd set up a different expectation, it'd be different. But then, like now, they said one thing and are doing another. And I'm not participating this time. Not to mention that, given all the New52 vs Post-Crisis Superman we've gone through, I get to see the iconic cape shot with the New52's emblem on it. I don't bear ill will to the character anymore, but still... that puts me off and takes me out of it. It probably shouldn't.. but I'm sorry. It does.
    Funny how they are ripping a cape that is supposed to be unrippable.

  8. #368
    Incredible Member RepHope's Avatar
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    I'm pretty sure this is how they intend to "Rebirth" Superman, and perhaps the DCAOU as a whole. After he comes back with the black suit (and hopefully the glorious Supermullet), he'll probably wear the Reborn suit and propose to Lois. It would've been nice if they actually had Supes/WW's relationship end onscreen in a tasteful manner though, since they seem to be putting him and Lois back together. I have no real preference for either one, Superman's love life has never really interested me one way or the other. I hope all four Supermen (Cyborg, Kon, Steel, and Eradicator) show up during Reign.

  9. #369
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    Quote Originally Posted by RepHope View Post
    I'm pretty sure this is how they intend to "Rebirth" Superman, and perhaps the DCAOU as a whole. After he comes back with the black suit (and hopefully the glorious Supermullet), he'll probably wear the Reborn suit and propose to Lois. It would've been nice if they actually had Supes/WW's relationship end onscreen in a tasteful manner though, since they seem to be putting him and Lois back together. I have no real preference for either one, Superman's love life has never really interested me one way or the other. I hope all four Supermen (Cyborg, Kon, Steel, and Eradicator) show up during Reign.
    During that time, Superman could be lying low (powers are a no show for the time being), and have Jon with Lois. Or something.

  10. #370
    Moderator Frontier's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by RepHope View Post
    I'm pretty sure this is how they intend to "Rebirth" Superman, and perhaps the DCAOU as a whole. After he comes back with the black suit (and hopefully the glorious Supermullet), he'll probably wear the Reborn suit and propose to Lois. It would've been nice if they actually had Supes/WW's relationship end onscreen in a tasteful manner though, since they seem to be putting him and Lois back together. I have no real preference for either one, Superman's love life has never really interested me one way or the other. I hope all four Supermen (Cyborg, Kon, Steel, and Eradicator) show up during Reign.
    Judging by the scene with Wonder Woman in the training room, I think they are going to put a tasteful cap to the relationship.

    I am curious that, outside Henshaw, we don't have any confirmed VA's for the other Supermen. Which I guess means we probably won't see most of them until the next movie.

  11. #371
    (formerly "Superman") JAK's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by The Red Monk View Post
    Superman fights a monster in a fight for his life, he dies killing it, an impostor/impostors rise up to replace him but do a shitty job of it, then Superman comes back to life to kick their ass and reclaim his rightful place.

    That's the fundamental core of the whole story. Everything else is padding and most of it is not even good padding.

    My question is, what do YOU see as the actual meat of the story?

    P.S: And finally, it pisses me off that DC has wasted yet MORE money on one of the only 2 or 3 Superman stories they seem to care about instead of digging deeper for something ACTUALLY GOOD. A goddamn Our Worlds At War adaption would be better than this. Yes, seeing Superman and company fight a discount Galactus is still more fun than seeing him get beat into a coma by Doomsday for the umpteenth time.
    Wow - I'm sorry to hear that the above is all you take from that. I've got a long answer for this, but Jokerz sums a good chunk of it up decently with this:

    Quote Originally Posted by Jokerz79 View Post
    Seeing Superman's Friends, Family, and Fellow Heroes dealing with the loss of Superman and trying to figure out who these four new Supermen are is the meat of the story. The death is just the plot point to get there.
    So here we go, taken in three parts:

    Death: Largely this is just the prologue and should be seen as such, but the meat of this part of the story is Superman's values and strength put to the ultimate test. While his tactics in the comic are less than I'd generally like to think he'd do, Superman's wit against the monster's brute strength and cunning instinct. He loses precious time to helping others and that costs him his life, but this shows the strength of his motivation and viewpoint quite well.

    Funeral: This, for me, is the largest part of the story. THIS is where 80% of the heart (meat) is. Reflected in the real-world shock over the death of a social icon/staple that's largely taken for granted, we see how his life and death affects/affected people. The aftermath makes for a beautiful multi-character piece. Mitch, who was the allegory for every 90's kid who thought Superman was "lame," now sees Superman more clearly after first-hand experience. But in a time of sadness, you see Bibbo and others decide to be a Superman of their own - to do their part and look out for each other (as Bibbo does Mitch, etc). You see how other heroes cope with not being there or being helpless to stop it. Lois trying to come to terms with everything and avoiding calling the Kents because that would "make it real" for her. Cadmus and Lex trying to find ways to fill the void left via something they can control. All of this speaks to character motivation and does a pretty good "deep dive" of it for a comic book.

    Reign: Not as much of the meat as part 2, this is one part character and one part plot. The piece of Pa's grief and want to see his son leading to every grieving father's wish fulfillment (of reaching into the ether and bringing back their own son) is especially powerful. But when the four Supermen show up, it definitely is a "you had to be there" thing - not because what's there is bad, but because you know the story ending and that takes a lot away from it. At the time, it was something of a study in psychology to see different people take different sides of what they thought was going on (most siding with either the "Last Son" or the "Man of Tomorrow" obviously). That part of the piece's power is lost for anyone reading "after the fact," which is a real shame. Where "Funeral" is a thought-piece, this is very much an action piece, and the pace is pretty quick. One of the best character moments is Superman meeting Lois and convincing her. That part's pretty cool, and right out of a movie (imo).

    But to call the meat of the story (Funeral) "filler" just totally misses the point of the whole thing, I think. One could almost make a stronger case that the opposite is true. The only reason that "Death" and "Reign" get most of the attention is that they had the shock points that grabbed headlines. Especially "Death". But they're the "shiny baubles" distracting people from the strongest, most heartfelt part of the story. Not that DC has done much to correct that in their PR, but still...

    I do agree that I'd like to see them cover other Superman stories. I just wanted this one because it wasn't done right the first time - and it looks very much like we're going to have the same problem again. So I guess they could have saved their breath. I freely admit that I could be wrong - in fact, I hope I am (as always when these things bug me) - but I doubt it.

    Quote Originally Posted by Lokimaru View Post
    Funny how they are ripping a cape that is supposed to be unrippable.
    WB was always good at a lively game of "square peg - round hole". lol Though to be fair, he's never (supposed to have) faced anything like this before.
    Last edited by JAK; 04-01-2018 at 08:41 PM.
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  12. #372
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lokimaru View Post
    Funny how they are ripping a cape that is supposed to be unrippable.
    I think we've seen it damaged enough times to know it isn't unrippable.

  13. #373
    Incredible Member RepHope's Avatar
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    Unfortunately it looks like Funeral for a Friend won't get much focus, if any. That does suck since Funeral and World Without Superman were indeed the strongest parts. I do like that the intro seems to be giving some focus to WHY Superman dying would be such a huge impact. Bibo showing up has me feeling hopeful that we'll really get to see the grief the average citizen felt in the DCU when Supes died.

    It would be even better if Mitch was there, and was a stand-in for the 2010s kids who hate Supes for being "overpowered" and "boring" compared to heroes like Batman.

  14. #374
    All-New Member Kelvinator's Avatar
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    Which Superboy do you guys think they will use in Reign of Supermen. The most obvious choice would have been Kon, but the fact that they are basing this in the new 52 and that they may do like a rebirth for the animated universe has made me doubt that they will use Kon. The reasons I doubt they will use Kon are:
    1. Very few people like the new 52 Kon
    2. In rebirth, Kon was not in the reign of supermen story
    3. There are too many version of the character. I think the fan favorite at least on this site is the 19's leather jacket Superboy with TTK, but the chances of them using him are slim since from the trailer we know they aren't doing a fully accurate adaptation. they will most likely either use the Superboy who has same powers as Superman or young justice tv show Superboy. i really hope they don't use the new 52 version or make another version of him that acts like Jon so that him and Damian can have the same dynamic as Jon and Damian in Super sons.
    They could use Jon because of rebirth and make him a clone of Superman( and maybe Lois or Lex or whoever they want) that gets adopted by Superman and Lois at the end of the 2nd part. But i am sure this well just piss off hardcore Kon fans.
    i am honestly fine with either because i know Kon will be in Young justice season 3 even if he will play a minor role and he is still alive in the injustice universe for now at least, and Jon is a fun character. The only thing that can be done to messed this up at least for me is if they do rebirth style and remove Superboy, use new 52 Superboy or make Kon a Jon Samuel Kent clone. We don't need another version of the Character!!.

  15. #375
    Astonishing Member Clark_Kent's Avatar
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    Trailer tomorrow. Trailer announcement teaser (I hate these lol) released today.
    https://mobile.twitter.com/WBHomeEnt...10649392033797
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