Death and Return of Superman movie will be set in the New 52

[Sacred Knight]

So... is it just me or it seemed like Diana was still carrying a bit of a torch for Clark/Superman in this movie?


Look at her facial expressions when Superman talks about Lois. Diana still cares more than she wants to admit. Personally, I love it lol. In my head canon, Diana just wasn't ready to be in a romantic relationship and all the work and commitment it requires. And Clark used to human relationships all his life wanted something more normal.

That doesn't mean that Superman and Diana could never be a couple again in the far future. The possibility is there. Don't get me wrong, I love Clois, but I also dig SuperWonder.

From someone else who really dug the relationship, if one were to be going about ending it, the way chosen here wasn't that bad. As I've said before its miles above the tripe we were given in the actual comics, and I'm counting both before the retcon and the actual retcon itself. Both things were awful.

That said I don't expect to see it in this verse again, as they probably plan on marrying Superman to Lois for synergy with Earth-0 in the comics. The hope there would only be in standalone stuff, if they ever do standalone stuff again. But they definitely showed far more respect to their relationship in all facets here due to their continuing strong bond even without the romantic element anymore, something Rebirth never achieved (but of course that wasn't the aim, the order of the day was clearly not respectfully going about an end there), and the current era still isn't.

[ssupes]

From someone else who really dug the relationship, if one were to be going about ending it, the way chosen here wasn't that bad. As I've said before its miles above the tripe we were given in the actual comics, and I'm counting both before the retcon and the actual retcon itself. Both things were awful.

That said I don't expect to see it in this verse again, as they probably plan on marrying Superman to Lois for synergy with Earth-0 in the comics. The hope there would only be in standalone stuff, if they ever do standalone stuff again. But they definitely showed far more respect to their relationship in all facets here due to their continuing strong bond even without the romantic element anymore, something Rebirth never achieved (but of course that wasn't the aim, the order of the day was clearly not respectfully going about an end there), and the current era still isn't.

I give tomasi credit that he did circles round what jurgens and rucka wrote as they rushed to rubbish what happened in the new 52, which is kinda sad given that he only wrote the SM/WW book for drama. It's a shame that because the way they bungled it that superman and wonder woman can't even seem to appear on the same page together anymore never mind talk to each other which is a far cry to what happened pre new 52.

But yeah I imagine in the animated verse they'll rush back to the status quo and it wouldn't surprise me that he and lois are married by the end of reign of superman.

[stargazer01]

Diana said she could'nt deal with Clark's "masquerade" which to me demonstrates she had no real understanding of Clark Kent the man and his need to connect to humanity. I'm glad they broke up on amicable terms but I agree, she wasn't ready.

I don't think you'll be seeing SuperWonder in these movies again. Once Clark has his sights set on Lois, that's pretty much it from now 'till doomsday (pun intended), DC have long ceased promoting the couple as a serious item and even as a "deep platonic friendship" in the books so the synergy isn't there, and I think DC will want to promote the Super-Family and introduce Jon eventually.

Diana in the meantime can always go back to Steve if she's insecure about the notions of romance and connecting to humanity..that is, after all, how her N52 saga ended in Rebirth.

From someone else who really dug the relationship, if one were to be going about ending it, the way chosen here wasn't that bad. As I've said before its miles above the tripe we were given in the actual comics, and I'm counting both before the retcon and the actual retcon itself. Both things were awful.

That said I don't expect to see it in this verse again, as they probably plan on marrying Superman to Lois for synergy with Earth-0 in the comics. The hope there would only be in standalone stuff, if they ever do standalone stuff again. But they definitely showed far more respect to their relationship in all facets here due to their continuing strong bond even without the romantic element anymore, something Rebirth never achieved (but of course that wasn't the aim, the order of the day was clearly not respectfully going about an end there), and the current era still isn't.

Oh guys believe me, I'm not expecting to see SuperWonder together again here. I just felt that the way they were written and directed left a little door open.. I was a bit afraid about how the writers would handle their break up, but I was pleasantly surprised it was better than I thought. They are still friends, and what they had together Did happen. And I like that. When Diana said to Clark to not hold back against Doomsday, I thought that was sexy af..

And yes, I also expect to see Clark and Lois married soon and that's fine too.

[Miles To Go]

But they definitely showed far more respect to their relationship in all facets here due to their continuing strong bond even without the romantic element anymore, something Rebirth never achieved (but of course that wasn't the aim, the order of the day was clearly not respectfully going about an end there), and the current era still isn't.

See in this case I feel them simply having a more professional friendship is more appropriate for the current direction of the books at the moment, and not just because Diana has a separate franchise, world and supporting players to play about with. I feel Clark and Diana really can't have the same kind of close relationship they had post-crisis anymore because Lois and Clark are raising a family now. Clark shouldn't be playfully flirting with Diana with Jon around or even referring to her as his "best friend" after all that he and Lois have gone through together, and Jon may start getting funny ideas about their history together. It was bad enough when Clark and Lois were first married, where Diana was routinely flirting with him and even had the gall to call herself his "best friend" to Lois' face when that's the wife's job IMO.

Sorry, don't want to derail this thread and turn it into another endless debate about the pair, just adding my two cents on why DC aren't exploring their connection post-rebirth anymore.

I agree with you that, while I personally didn't mind how Rebirth did things, this animated movie handled things far better and both acted like grown ups who just realised their time together had ended. That it was nice, but not enough.

[stargazer01]

Sorry, don't want to derail this thread and turn it into another endless debate about the pair, just adding my two cents on why DC aren't exploring their connection post-rebirth anymore.

hmm I don't quite agree. I think this movie does show a bit of that connection still, and I don't mind it at all. I don't feel offended that SM and WW are still friends and colleagues or their past. Like Superman told Diana, things are complicated, and I like that because it shows these characters as more complex and 3-dimensional. Real life is not always black and white, and people end relationships for different reasons. It doesn't mean they don't care anymore at all. Plus this is not real people so I don't mind.

Any way, saw this review yesterday and it really nailed my feelings about this movie.

[Miles To Go]

hmm I don't quite agree.

And you don't need to. I admit to being slightly biased because I cherish Lois and Clark and their iconic stature and don't like it when an alternative intrudes on their happiness. I'd be the same if it were Lana or Lori, despite my fandom for both (and there were times where that indeed was the case in the 90s and 2000s)

[Clark_Kent]

I also believe Reign will end with Lois & Clark married. If they want to get to Jon and/or Super Sons quickly, marrying them in the next film is a faster way to do that. Kind of cuts out a middle "Lois marries Clark" film and gets right to the option of introducing Jon.

However, since Damian is already around, they're going to have to really alter Jon's story. Either he will be aging to 10 at an accelerated rate, or 10 year old Jon will arrive from the future, having escaped some catastrophy and now they have an instant 10 year old. It's going to be weird no matter what they do. If they hadn't already had Damian interact with the League in JL vs TT, maybe they could have said all the JL stuff was 10 years ago while Batman/Damian movies were present day or something. But whatever they do (if the plan is to go after that Super Sons money) will definitely be messy, make no mistake.

[stargazer01]

I also believe Reign will end with Lois & Clark married. If they want to get to Jon and/or Super Sons quickly, marrying them in the next film is a faster way to do that. Kind of cuts out a middle "Lois marries Clark" film and gets right to the option of introducing Jon.

However, since Damian is already around, they're going to have to really alter Jon's story. Either he will be aging to 10 at an accelerated rate, or 10 year old Jon will arrive from the future, having escaped some catastrophy and now they have an instant 10 year old. It's going to be weird no matter what they do. If they hadn't already had Damian interact with the League in JL vs TT, maybe they could have said all the JL stuff was 10 years ago while Batman/Damian movies were present day or something. But whatever they do (if the plan is to go after that Super Sons money) will definitely be messy, make no mistake.

I think there is a way to do it and not feel too weird. I'd marry Clark/Lois at the end of Reign. Then I'd introduce the baby Jon story in another film and would skip time saying a few years have passed but we only see a nice montage of the Super family doing family stuff together, so we know Jon has had a chance to be kind of a normal kid growing up, but I would also add that he grows much faster than a regular kid, at least until puberty.

I'm not sure how it was exactly done in the comics, I still need to read it, but I heard he grows fast? That way we can have our cake and eat it. We can see him grow (tho faster), be a normal kid albeit with powers, and be old enough at the end of the movie.

[Sacred Knight]

They could also do what they did with Wally, something where Clark and Lois have to retreat somewhere where time moves differently, and they return with a ten year old Jon not nearly that long after they initially left. Only potential issue there would perhaps be in the idea that ten years should age Lois a lot more noticeably. With Clark that's not a problem since he physically ages so slowly anyway. But I guess its not mandatory to even really delve into that or really even make Lois look noticeably older. Just ignore it entirely. I can't really gauge how many fans might say "this is ridiculous, Perry, Jimmy, and the Planet would notice if Lois aged ten years overnight". But, just another option thrown out there.

[Miles To Go]

I'm not sure how it was exactly done in the comics, I still need to read it, but I heard he grows fast?.

No, Jon grew at a normal rate. The hows and whys can be explained to you, but like Austin Powers you'll go cross-eyed.

[stargazer01]

And you don't need to. I admit to being slightly biased because I cherish Lois and Clark and their iconic stature and don't like it when an alternative intrudes on their happiness. I'd be the same if it were Lana or Lori, despite my fandom for both (and there were times where that indeed was the case in the 90s and 2000s)

I also cherish Lois and Clark, I'm just more open to explore other possibilities I guess. But it needs to be done well. I just find it fun to get the chance to see Supes with other people in other stories, but I do agree that Lois should continue to be his main love interest. But that doesn't mean he can never love someone else. That's not realistic.

[Miles To Go]

They could also do what they did with Wally, something where Clark and Lois have to retreat somewhere where time moves differently, and they return with a ten year old Jon not nearly that long after they initially left. Only potential issue there would perhaps be in the idea that ten years should age Lois a lot more noticeably. With Clark that's not a problem since he physically ages so slowly anyway. But I guess its not mandatory to even really delve into that or really even make Lois look noticeably older. Just ignore it entirely. I can't really gauge how many fans might say "this is ridiculous, Perry, Jimmy, and the Planet would notice if Lois aged ten years overnight". But, just another option thrown out there.

Another option would be to put Damien in a cryogenic coma for ten years. Jon can be conceived and born naturally, Connor can grow to be close to his age and look in the 2000s and YJ etc and be the older bossier brother.

[Sacred Knight]

The "best friend" thing is often a thing of semantics. Its not a thing of nerve for a female to still consider her best male friend her best friend even after he gets married. I mean, my best friend is a female. I'm not married myself, but if I ever were to be, does she lose that title by some sort of rule? I don't really look at it that way, its more complicated than that. Clark and Diana were best friends before Clark got married, and I don't see it as a competitive situation where titles get passed over. The "title" doesn't really matter, its just a basic descriptor to describe a special relationship at the end of the day, and that's what Clark and Diana have always had. Diana can still think of herself as his best friend, hell Clark can think of her AND Lois as his best friends. The title means less than the feeling. Again, a semantics thing. What really matters is the relationships. And those don't have to change.

[Sacred Knight]

Another option would be to put Damien in a cryogenic coma for ten years. Jon can be conceived and born naturally, Connor can grow to be close to his age and look in the 2000s and YJ etc and be the older bossier brother.

That could work especially if they wanted to do a reworked story of Damian's death.

[stargazer01]

They could also do what they did with Wally, something where Clark and Lois have to retreat somewhere where time moves differently, and they return with a ten year old Jon not nearly that long after they initially left. Only potential issue there would perhaps be in the idea that ten years should age Lois a lot more noticeably. With Clark that's not a problem since he physically ages so slowly anyway. But I guess its not mandatory to even really delve into that or really even make Lois look noticeably older. Just ignore it entirely. I can't really gauge how many fans might say "this is ridiculous, Perry, Jimmy, and the Planet would notice if Lois aged ten years overnight". But, just another option thrown out there.

I really like this idea. They don't have to explain Lois' age at all. It's not live action.

No, Jon grew at a normal rate. The hows and whys can be explained to you, but like Austin Powers you'll go cross-eyed.

haha, but did you like the story overall?

The "best friend" thing is often a thing of semantics. Its not a thing of nerve for a female to still consider her best male friend her best friend even after he gets married. I mean, my best friend is a female. I'm not married myself, but if I ever were to be, does she lose that title by some sort of rule? I don't really look at it that way, its more complicated than that. Clark and Diana were best friends before Clark got married, and I don't see it as a competitive situation where titles get passed over. The "title" doesn't really matter, its just a basic descriptor to describe a special relationship at the end of the day, and that's what Clark and Diana have always had. Diana can still think of herself as his best friend, hell Clark can think of her AND Lois as his best friends. The title means less than the feeling. Again, a semantics thing. What really matters is the relationships. And those don't have to change.

Personally as a married woman, I think priorities really change once you get married. I would not like to hear that my husband has a best female friend who isn't me.. It's just not cool. I do think dynamics change a lot.