Death and Return of Superman movie will be set in the New 52

[rpmaluki]

Saw the double feature with my girlfriend and we both had a great time.

spoilers:

One thing I have not seen get it's due is the animation shift for Cyborg Superman's heel turn. They start giving him a lot more dramatic angles with harsh foreshortening on top of changing is facial features slightly to look more deranged. He was pretty weak until then but he does ratchet up a bit before the conclusion. DC does continue to point out that Lois is a dummy for secret identities, which while fun as a nod, is disheartening when it's just taken as fact. She is journalism in DC. I've always taken it as she has to know and just needs to prove it, even if only to him. She has to stick the evidence, but through his powers and own clever mind, Superman can stay ahead of her. The movie isn't perfect, but this wasn't exactly an easy story to adapt. They did a good job getting the spirit of the source across and the other big bag ultimately just served as a way to take the JLA off the table so we don't spend the whole movie wondering why they aren't present. Really wish we got to see the League respond to Clark's resurrection, but also it was long enough. Always leave 'empty wanting more.

end of spoilers

They used to write her putting the pieces together and Clark throwing her off the trail in some crazy weird way but when that ceased to be the driving force of their story, they cut out that part of the tale, creating a less flattering shorthand of the character. Lois is not dumb but through DC's incompetence in the Super line, they've created a frustrating consequence that's not a true reflection of Lois Lane.

[Naruto1996]

Did the destruction of the coastal city happen?
Dc missed the opportunity to adapt zero hour and the entire saga of Green Lantern?

[Clark_Kent]

Did the destruction of the coastal city happen?
Dc missed the opportunity to adapt zero hour and the entire saga of Green Lantern?

spoilers:

Coast City is not mentioned in this film, and remains intact.

end of spoilers

[Superham]

Going to see this tonight. Totally tempted by the spoilers and full of my own theories. Just. . .gotta. . .hold out. . .a few more. . .hours. . .

[Sacred Knight]

spoilers:

Coast City is not mentioned in this film, and remains intact.

end of spoilers

That's a pretty big miss. Didn't have to be verbatim but without an element like this I think you lose a lot.

[Nelliebly]

Saw the double feature with my girlfriend and we both had a great time.

spoilers:

One thing I have not seen get it's due is the animation shift for Cyborg Superman's heel turn. They start giving him a lot more dramatic angles with harsh foreshortening on top of changing is facial features slightly to look more deranged. He was pretty weak until then but he does ratchet up a bit before the conclusion. DC does continue to point out that Lois is a dummy for secret identities, which while fun as a nod, is disheartening when it's just taken as fact. She is journalism in DC. I've always taken it as she has to know and just needs to prove it, even if only to him. She has to stick the evidence, but through his powers and own clever mind, Superman can stay ahead of her. The movie isn't perfect, but this wasn't exactly an easy story to adapt. They did a good job getting the spirit of the source across and the other big bag ultimately just served as a way to take the JLA off the table so we don't spend the whole movie wondering why they aren't present. Really wish we got to see the League respond to Clark's resurrection, but also it was long enough. Always leave 'empty wanting more.

end of spoilers

It's also just incredibly unfair that Lois is the one who continues to have to get the brunt of "oh she was dumb" critique when ummm....literally everyone who ever comes in contact with Clark doesn't know who he is. It's unfair to her and it's sexist. Why aren't there constant jokes about how Jimmy Olsen and Perry White are dumb? Lex Luthor etc.

Don't get me wrong---I'm very much in favor of narratives where Lois knows the truth and just doesn't reveal it until she feels the time is right. It was the one thing the previous Superman: Doomsday got right and this feels like a regression from that which is unfortunate. But either way, it's just incredibly unfair to paint her as being dumb in any capacity. Either one accepts that the secret identity is credible and a credible part of the story you are telling or you don't. If the story itself adapts the secret identity as plausible and has Clark going out of his way to fool people then continuing to force Lois to take the brunt of this "dumb" accusation while literally everyone else including often Lex Luthor, Perry White, Jimmy Olsen and everyone else at the Planet is off the hook from those jokes is unfair at best and sexist at worst and I hate it.

If one accepts the Secret identity as plausible which, realistic or not, is a condition of understanding Superman then it makes a lot more sense to approach the issue with Lois specifically about it being an emotional barrier. It has NOTHING to do with intelligence. It has a lot more to do with her not wanting to see what was right in front of her because the fear of it being true was scary. Smallville, for all it's faults, nailed this. When Max Lord read Lois's mind about the Blur...it was clear as day she knew it was Clark even before the reveal where he kissed her. She had always known but just didn't want to believe it because it called into question everything else she knew and put their relationship in clearer focus. "Lois and Clark" stressed that it also had a lot to do with Lois not wanting to allow herself to become too close to Clark because Clark was "real" and Superman was the fantasy. If she kept them as two separate people then she didn't have to truly let either of them in. This is just a much more mature way to deal with the issue than "oh Lois was dumb" and much more respectful to who Lois is. I'm sick and tired of it being about intelligence when it's clearly an emotional block more than anything having to do with brain power.

It's the one thing I wish they had kept from Superman: Doomsday and I'm sad they didn't but oh well. Trying not to let it ruin my enjoyment of what sounds like a very strong outing for Lois in this movie. I like Rebecca a lot.

[Clark_Kent]

That's a pretty big miss. Didn't have to be verbatim but without an element like this I think you lose a lot.

My thoughts exactly. And it stood out big time, even though it's actually pretty good...ok, spoilers for the movie to follow, to get my feelings on it out there:

spoilers:

I agree completely that it's a big miss, and it's why my original reaction to this is "it's a pretty great movie, but it's not Reign of the Supermen." It's missing 95% of the original story. Tomasi took the Death of Superman comic and weaved enough of it into the DoS movie so that the film was new and fresh but also familiar to those of us who know the original comics story verbatim. The guys they got to co-write Reign basically looked at the cover of the book and said "those dudes look cool, I can write a story with that." And it does actually work as an animated film with the 4 Supermen...it's just not what we were told was coming. So I'm conflicted... We've all read the book. It's a pretty meaty story! They could have adapted it all...Eradicator thinking he's Superman, Cyborg destroying Coast City and frying the survivors, fighting Superboy, Engine City...they could have put all of that in this almost 90 minute runtime. But instead, they crafted an original story. And that's where I get extremely irate...we were told they were splitting the story into 2 films so that they could give us a faithful adaptation of the original Death/Return. Faithful. And then images came out, and we discovered it was using New 52 designs and in that quasi-New 52 film continuity. But, while Death of Superman wasn't 100% faithful it DID hit all the right beats and added some new layers. Reign misses that mark completely. Henshaw is not made of energy, he's a cyborg built by Darkseid. The scene of him tossing Doomsday into space as an escape plan is not in the film (and not being a being of energy inhabiting machinery, I guess it wasn't needed). He's partially brainwashed by Darkseid, but once he breaks free of it he mostly sounds like the Henshaw we know & love. The Eradicator does not believe himself to be Kal-El, and after showing up early on with a mission of "you are a criminal, and thus need to be eradicated!", he kinda disappears for the majority of the film. He's not even sussed about others wearing the shield. Steel was probably my favorite 'good guy' in the film, as he is pretty much his comics counterpart. He does mention his old weapon designs being on the streets, so the film is forgiven for not showing him handling it. Superboy was mostly 90's Superboy, which was fun. The lingo is toned down a ton, but some of it is still there due to Dabney showing him nothing but 90's TV while he was in the tube. There's no plot to turn Earth into Warworld, no engine city, no Coast City. It's all a plot to bring Darkseid & his army to Earth. It sounds like I hated it, but I didn't...it wasn't what I was expecting, but it's a solid "original" movie. Back when the New 52 started, we all talked about wanting DC to tell us how certain events went down in the new continuity. This would have been a fun update to the original story, a modern retelling, and on the level of "this is how it went down in N52", it works extremely well. But as a "faithful adaptation", it doesn't stick the landing. So I'm torn. I enjoyed the hell out of it once I started thinking about it in terms of a new telling, but I was still mad about what I was promised. It's a great animated film, and a great sequel to DoS, but it's not "Reign of the Supermen". It's just a great little movie with those characters.

end of spoilers

[Vordan]

Just saw it, I thought it was great! I liked it as much as Death.
spoilers:

Kon stole the show imo he was hilarious, his VA did a great job. Steel had a really cool design and I liked when he showed up but he unfortunately didn’t get much to do. Eradicator got the least focus of the four, basically showed up a few times to fight the other Supermen then spent the rest of the movie charging Superman. Henshaw was pretty good too, he was subordinate to Darkseid as expected but did end up screwing over Darkseid out of a desire to get revenge for himself. Really like the new VA for Darkseid. We finally got Black Suit Superman with the mullet and it’s as gloriously 90s as I could’ve hoped for. Lois got a lot to do and was presented well, she was the driving force of the story.

end of spoilers

That's a pretty big miss. Didn't have to be verbatim but without an element like this I think you lose a lot.

You can’t be surprised. DC wants to put Emerald Twilight behind them, or more specifically Johns does. Even if it did get adapted it would be Hal under Parallux’s control fully. They aren’t making Hal the bad guy like that.

[Clark_Kent]

It's also just incredibly unfair that Lois is the one who continues to have to get the brunt of "oh she was dumb" critique when ummm....literally everyone who ever comes in contact with Clark doesn't know who he is. It's unfair to her and it's sexist. Why aren't there constant jokes about how Jimmy Olsen and Perry White are dumb? Lex Luthor etc.

Don't get me wrong---I'm very much in favor of narratives where Lois knows the truth and just doesn't reveal it until she feels the time is right. It was the one thing the previous Superman: Doomsday got right and this feels like a regression from that which is unfortunate. But either way, it's just incredibly unfair to paint her as being dumb in any capacity. Either one accepts that the secret identity is credible and a credible part of the story you are telling or you don't. If the story itself adapts the secret identity as plausible and has Clark going out of his way to fool people then continuing to force Lois to take the brunt of this "dumb" accusation while literally everyone else including often Lex Luthor, Perry White, Jimmy Olsen and everyone else at the Planet is off the hook from those jokes is unfair at best and sexist at worst and I hate it.

If one accepts the Secret identity as plausible which, realistic or not, is a condition of understanding Superman then it makes a lot more sense to approach the issue with Lois specifically about it being an emotional barrier. It has NOTHING to do with intelligence. It has a lot more to do with her not wanting to see what was right in front of her because the fear of it being true was scary. Smallville, for all it's faults, nailed this. When Max Lord read Lois's mind about the Blur...it was clear as day she knew it was Clark even before the reveal where he kissed her. She had always known but just didn't want to believe it because it called into question everything else she knew and put their relationship in clearer focus. "Lois and Clark" stressed that it also had a lot to do with Lois not wanting to allow herself to become too close to Clark because Clark was "real" and Superman was the fantasy. If she kept them as two separate people then she didn't have to truly let either of them in. This is just a much more mature way to deal with the issue than "oh Lois was dumb" and much more respectful to who Lois is. I'm sick and tired of it being about intelligence when it's clearly an emotional block more than anything having to do with brain power.

It's the one thing I wish they had kept from Superman: Doomsday and I'm sad they didn't but oh well. Trying not to let it ruin my enjoyment of what sounds like a very strong outing for Lois in this movie. I like Rebecca a lot.

The dialogue in regards to the glasses is so brief & quick, you could almost miss it in the movie over the sound of crunching popcorn, to be quite honest. I think once you see the film, you'll be pretty happy with Lois. I'm not the Lois fan that you & others here are, but I was very engaged with her in this film and it was the first time since the 'Smallville' tv show (in non-comics mediums, I mean) where I fully understood why a Sun God would choose her over all others. She rocks in this film, and is much more important to Superman's return than she was in the original story. I wouldn't let the line about the glasses bother you all that much.

[Sacred Knight]

You can’t be surprised. DC wants to put Emerald Twilight behind them, or more specifically Johns does. Even if it did get adapted it would be Hal under Parallux’s control fully. They aren’t making Hal the bad guy like that.

Sure I can. The event never just served a seque to Emerald Twilight in the comics. It served a substantial purpose for Reign standing alone. So yeah, I find it genuinely surprising they didn't use at least a facsimile of the idea, to really amp up What Cyborg Superman was capable of and get across the major stakes. I never expected it just for ET purposes alone. Hank and Darkseid succeeding in destroying a city, town, or whatever, really sets the stage for the final showdown. It being what is was seems rather derivative because well, that's basically what already happened in War.

Eradicator also sounds like a big disappointment after reading Clark_Kent's rundown. Doesn't make me not want to see it, Those are two disappointments but I'm not really seeing any others (Cyborg Superman's origin is slightly disappointing but at the same time not at all surprising, that required a build-up just not provided, Death would have had to have set that up first but it didn't so I knew it was going to be different).

[Clark_Kent]

Just saw it, I thought it was great! I liked it as much as Death.
spoilers:

Kon stole the show imo he was hilarious, his VA did a great job. Steel had a really cool design and I liked when he showed up but he unfortunately didn’t get much to do. Eradicator got the least focus of the four, basically showed up a few times to fight the other Supermen then spent the rest of the movie charging Superman. Henshaw was pretty good too, he was subordinate to Darkseid as expected but did end up screwing over Darkseid out of a desire to get revenge for himself. Really like the new VA for Darkseid. We finally got Black Suit Superman with the mullet and it’s as gloriously 90s as I could’ve hoped for. Lois got a lot to do and was presented well, she was the driving force of the story.

end of spoilers

You can’t be surprised. DC wants to put Emerald Twilight behind them, or more specifically Johns does. Even if it did get adapted it would be Hal under Parallux’s control fully. They aren’t making Hal the bad guy like that.

I mostly agree. Nathan Fillion would have just killed it as Parallax though.

[Vordan]

My thoughts exactly. And it stood out big time, even though it's actually pretty good...ok, spoilers for the movie to follow, to get my feelings on it out there:

To be fair: It’s NOT a standalone movie which are the ones that try to directly adapt the story. It basically is what you describe: A “New 52” version of how Reign went down. The biggest flaw was that I wish we had gotten more time with the Supermen but to truly do the story justice I think it would’ve had to have been split into three parts: Death, Reign, and Return and that just wasn’t happening.

[Clark_Kent]

Sure I can be. The event never just served a seque to Emerald Twilight in the comics. It served a substantial purpose for Reign standing alone. So yeah, I find it genuinely surprising they didn't use it, or some facsimile of it, and not for Emerald Twilight reasons. I knew that aspect was a reach. I didn't think not utilizing Hank and his partner committing a mass genocide was.

And this is why I said "mostly" to the other poster. I can see why they would not want to reach for Emerald Twilight, but it would have been a thrill to see Coast City destroyed here. There's still a sizeable body count for the event in the film that kind of/sort of takes the place of Coast City, but I was hoping for the whole shebang.

[Yoda]

I wouldn't be surprised if they wanted to get Superman as far away from wiping out entire cities as possible at this point. There is an event that works as the same type of catalyst here, just on a much smaller scale. And they are setting up a bigger event down the line still as the post credit scene makes clear.

[Vordan]

There were tons of casualties though. spoilers:

Looks like all of Henshaw’s minions died so that’s a pretty high body count even if it’s not the same as Coast City dying

end of spoilers