You knew it would come to this..Better Country Leader: Black Panther or Doom?

[Michael Watkins]

Of course, Wakandans have known plenty of freedom. Barred by law from ever leaving their own country, ruled by an absolute monarch whose power is derived from his ability to kill other warriors and survive eating a poison herb. So. Much. Freedom.

Wakanda is laughably backwards and socially regressive. It's literally the equivalent of a nuclear power controlled by savages. Seriously: Savages. These are a people who have no democracy, no personal freedoms, only a rigid caste structure rooted in centuries of tribalism, where trial by combat is still the only means of political advancement.

The idea that Wakanda is "more free" than Latveria is insulting. The Wakandans are only more "free" because the writers make sure that every Wakandan is a mindlessly loyal nationalist with unswerving loyalty to the Black Panther or a villain, so we never see anyone questioning the Wakandan way of life.

There's an uncurrent of racism to the "Wakanda is more free" argument. It's almost like the white European citizens of Latveria are being brutally oppressed because they live under an absolute monarch whose rule can only be ended by violence, but the black African citizens of Wakanda have found their natural state living under absolute monarch whose rule can only be ended by violence...

I'll let the undercurrent of racism in your post speak for itself.

[JasonEsta]

I'll let the undercurrent of racism in your post speak for itself.

Wow...they are savages, eh? They always let it slip when they get too comfortable. Lol.

[Ra-El]

That's my point. T'challa has kept a strong nation strong; through leadership. Doom oversees a rabbit pen. One is significantly harder. How are you not getting this?

All T'Challa needs to do is not mess up, Wakanda is already strong without him, he did nothing new for them. Doom took a poor, corrupted and backwards country, where the citizens were explored and turn it into a potency where everyone have what to eat and there is no violence on the streets.
Before the retcon, T'Challa was the one responsible for the Wakanda development, but the writers found more appealing making Wakanda always be what it is.

It comes down to what each of us consider when deciding what makes a better ruler. I'm looking not who is the most humanitarian, but who did more and is more efficient. That's Doom.

[AmazingSpiderFan]

I'll let the undercurrent of racism in your post speak for itself.

Wow...they are savages, eh? They always let it slip when they get too comfortable. Lol.

Are you actually arguing that a political system in which leadership of an absolute monarchy is determined by whoever can beat up the other guy and then survive being poisoned is not savagery?

You guys want to imply I'm racist because I used the word savage to accurately desribe the Wakandan political system, but the real racism here is coming from you and your passive acceptance of the idea that the most advanced African nation would still be ruled by these kinds of barbaric practices. This is the fact:

In Wakanda, all political power rests in the hands of any warrior who can beat up the current ruler in a trial by combat.

There are two ways to react to that fact. You can go "Holy ****, that is is some racist bullshit. Why is this considered acceptable writing? How is this Noble Savage bullshit still acceptable in 2018?" or you can go "Sure, that makes sense, they're Africans after all, so it only makes sense they would have primitive and uncivilized political systems. But anyone who calls that out for what it is must be racist."

You guys are clowns.

[Crazy Diamond]

Are you actually arguing that a political system in which leadership of an absolute monarchy is determined by whoever can beat up the other guy and then survive being poisoned is not savagery?

You guys want to imply I'm racist because I used the word savage to accurately desribe the Wakandan political system, but the real racism here is coming from you and your passive acceptance of the idea that the most advanced African nation would still be ruled by these kinds of barbaric practices. This is the fact:

In Wakanda, all political power rests in the hands of any warrior who can beat up the current ruler in a trial by combat.

There are two ways to react to that fact. You can go "Holy ****, that is is some racist bullshit. Why is this considered acceptable writing? How is this Noble Savage bullshit still acceptable in 2018?" or you can go "Sure, that makes sense, they're Africans after all, so it only makes sense they would have primitive and uncivilized political systems. But anyone who calls that out for what it is must be racist."

You guys are clowns.

Please take the cape off it's really embarassing.

Doom is such a boring character. When it takes an interdimensional villain pulled out from nowhere for you to take an L, you've gone way too far.

It's great seeing you defend a dictator who doesn't even exist though and wouldn't give a **** about you if he did.

[AmazingSpiderFan]

Doom is such a boring character. When it takes an interdimensional villain pulled out from nowhere for you to take an L, you've gone way too far.

surfer.jpg

Okay.

Oh, and the list of people who have handed Doctor Doom an L is actually really long. Squirrel Girl is on it. I mean sure, a lot of those losses were Doombots and thus Doom claims they don't count, but dude, they totally count. If your plot is foiled and you have to start over with a whole new plot, you lost.

It's great seeing you defend a dictator who doesn't even exist though and wouldn't give a **** about you if he did.

They're both dictators who don't exist and wouldn't give a **** about you if they did.

You can make all kinds of person attacks on me, but what you can't do is provide any real evidence to counter the argument that Wakanda is every bit as repressive and backwards as Latveria.

[Kintor]

Please take the cape off it's really embarassing.

Doom is such a boring character. When it takes an interdimensional villain pulled out from nowhere for you to take an L, you've gone way too far.

It's great seeing you defend a dictator who doesn't even exist though and wouldn't give a **** about you if he did.

Doctor Doom is one of the greatest characters in all of Western literature. A tragic figure who through his personal drive and ruthless ambitions manages to overcome impossible odds, defeating pre-destined heroes and even Satan himself along the way.

If anything Doom is an ultimate expression of Plato's 'Philosopher King', the perfectly wise absolute ruler capable of leading his nation both impartially and efficiently. You may not like Doom as a person but you can't deny the magnitude of his personal achievements.

T'challa is just a spoilt brat in comparison, with every advantage handed to him by divine providence and literary contrivance.

[Crazy Diamond]

surfer.jpg

Okay.

Oh, and the list of people who have handed Doctor Doom an L is actually really long. Squirrel Girl is on it. I mean sure, a lot of those losses were Doombots and thus Doom claims they don't count, but dude, they totally count. If your plot is foiled and you have to start over with a whole new plot, you lost.

Like I said, it takes a miracle for him to actually lose these days because he is a boring character now. The Doombot stuff was pushing it but for me he jumped the shark when the Marquis of Death was revealed. He became like Magneto and so many other villains where they get a bit of depth and then it turns into more and more stannery.

They're both dictators who don't exist and wouldn't give a **** about you if they did.

You can make all kinds of person attacks on me, but what you can't do is provide any real evidence to counter the argument that Wakanda is every bit as repressive and backwards as Latveria.

One is a king who still has to answer to a council of his own tribe and even got disposed. The other is absolute ruler for life.

Like I said before, take the cape off. It's sad.

[Crazy Diamond]

Doctor Doom is one of the greatest characters in all of Western literature. A tragic figure who through his personal drive and ruthless ambitions manages to overcome impossible odds, defeating pre-destined heroes and even Satan himself along the way.

If anything Doom is an ultimate expression of Plato's 'Philosopher King', the perfectly wise absolute ruler capable of leading his nation both impartially and efficiently. You may not like Doom as a person but you can't deny the magnitude of his personal achievements.

T'challa is just a spoilt brat in comparison, with every advantage handed to him by divine providence and literary contrivance.

I can deny his personal achievements because Dr. Doom is a cardboard cutout compared to plenty of characters in literature of any kind.

Dr. Doom is a sad man who is still hurt and shook at Reed Richards being better than him. Every time he looks in the mirror and he has to tell himself how great he really is because deep down inside he doesn't believe it.

[AmazingSpiderFan]

Like I said before, take the cape off. It's sad.

I'm not going to waste my time arguing with someone who keeps resorting to personal attacks. Learn to argue like an adult, your petty cheap shots and gutless flame-baiting impresses no one.

[Username taken]

Of course, Wakandans have known plenty of freedom. Barred by law from ever leaving their own country, ruled by an absolute monarch whose power is derived from his ability to kill other warriors and survive eating a poison herb. So. Much. Freedom.

Wakanda is laughably backwards and socially regressive. It's literally the equivalent of a nuclear power controlled by savages. Seriously: Savages. These are a people who have no democracy, no personal freedoms, only a rigid caste structure rooted in centuries of tribalism, where trial by combat is still the only means of political advancement.

The idea that Wakanda is "more free" than Latveria is insulting. The Wakandans are only more "free" because the writers make sure that every Wakandan is a mindlessly loyal nationalist with unswerving loyalty to the Black Panther or a villain, so we never see anyone questioning the Wakandan way of life.

There's an uncurrent of racism to the "Wakanda is more free" argument. It's almost like the white European citizens of Latveria are being brutally oppressed because they live under an absolute monarch whose rule can only be ended by violence, but the black African citizens of Wakanda have found their natural state living under absolute monarch whose rule can only be ended by violence...

Savages?

I actually understand the greater point you’re making but referring to them as savages is racist.

[AmazingSpiderFan]

Savages?

I actually understand the greater point you’re making but referring to them as savages is racist.

No, referring to them as savages is accurate. Portraying them as savages is what is racist.

[The Ray]

Doctor Doom is one of the greatest characters in all of Western literature.

Thousands of years of western literature and its biggest achievement is a dictator of a make-believe country that wears silly clothes and speaks in the third person? A person so petty that he wants to destroy a family because one day his math failed him and he ended up hurting his own face?

[Kintor]

Thousands of years of western literature and its biggest achievement is a dictator of a make-believe country that wears silly clothes and speaks in the third person? A person so petty that he wants to destroy a family because one day his math failed him and he ended up hurting his own face?

I think you'll find that literature's greatest heroes are mostly petty tyrants of one persuasion or another. We glorify Kings and Queens, their court politics and incessant power struggles held up as the epitome of high drama. Why else would you be compelled to defend an ethno-centric despot like T'challa? The modest democratic man barely rates a mention. So don't malign Doom for his aristocratic theatrics, he simply understands human nature better then T'challa ever could.

[Username taken]

No, referring to them as savages is accurate. Portraying them as savages is what is racist.

Calling people and portraying people as savages are both racist.