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  1. #31
    Mighty Member WheelchairX's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by psylurker View Post
    Everything shown so far in X-Men Grand Design is a good retcon and a great new official origin for the X-Men
    Agreed, it streamlines continuity for the new reader - and what it does change, is inconsequential.
    I’ve just published my very first work on ‘Archive of Our Own’, under the same name as here. It is the first chapter of ‘I Am My Own Best Friend ~ An Emma Frost Road Trip’, which focuses on Emma between the events of IvX and Secret Empire, including the White Queen going on a road trip, to try and have fun!

    You can read the story here: https://archiveofourown.org/works/15795663

    I hope you enjoy it as much I did writing it!

  2. #32
    Extraordinary Member Zero Hunter's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Endsong View Post
    Good: Xorn is Magneto. Everyone has it listed as bad but it's a wonderful twist to the story Morrison told in New X-Men.

    Bad: Magneto is not Xorn. Felt like Claremont was just trying to undermine any lasting change.
    I think you have it backwards. Morrison is the one that undid everything about Magneto and turned him back into the totally evil mushtache twirling villain he was originally and ignored pretty much all the character building Claremont and others had done with him over the years. Claremont just came in and said "Screw you Morrison you silver age fanboy there is no way I am letting you trash a character I spent so much time building up just so you can have your I killed Magneto story"

  3. #33
    Fire and life incarnate! phoenixzero23's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Endsong View Post
    Good: Xorn is Magneto. Everyone has it listed as bad but it's a wonderful twist to the story Morrison told in New X-Men.
    xorn's identity was an unexpected twist but i didn't like morrison's magneto. it was like a nazi, super evil, silver age villain. he painted magneto like an irredeemable antagonist and a caricature.
    It hurts so bad because magneto is a beautiful grey character, with tons of good and bad things.

  4. #34
    Astonishing Member King_Thor13's Avatar
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    I don't think retcons are ever really a great idea. I understand writers wanting to shy away from certain storylines, but I think undoing what has already been done is always controversial. I mean, it can help in developing some characters or undoing past errors, but it also causes some confusion and of course removes the intent of the past writer. It should be done sparingly and with great consideration.

    I really didn't like the third Summers brother plot, which was a pretty poor concept in its fruition and didn't really add anything; Vulcan doesn't even hit top 50 X-Villains for me. The Shatterstar/Longshot/Dazzler thing was way too complicated and should have been avoided. I hated how Bishop, one of the only black men in the X-Men, was made out to be a monster in order to contribute to the character of Hope Summers (who is far less extraordinary imo). And the Axis storyline was terrible in how it impacted Havok and Sabretooth, who have yet to be remedied.

    And worst of all, the Maximoff retcon. I hate that the family was essentially undone. It means Wanda, Pietro, Billy and Tommy likely don't have the X-gene. It means Magneto has only one child and no grandchildren. I hate it. I really do.

  5. #35
    hate cant reach you here Harpsikord's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zero Hunter View Post
    I think you have it backwards. Morrison is the one that undid everything about Magneto and turned him back into the totally evil mushtache twirling villain he was originally and ignored pretty much all the character building Claremont and others had done with him over the years. Claremont just came in and said "Screw you Morrison you silver age fanboy there is no way I am letting you trash a character I spent so much time building up just so you can have your I killed Magneto story"
    Magneto hadn't been portrayed as anything but an antagonist for a long, long time. Morrison's was the apex of that and it was fine.

    Particularly since he was hopped up on KICK.

    Claremont has classically always had an issue with stories other than his being told and so when he got his hands on Excalibur, he retconned the Magneto that had been in the books since the nineties. Just like how when he was on the Nightcrawler solo a few years back he basically treated it as if nothing had ever happened to Nightcrawler since he stopped writing him. He was still with Amanda Sefton, he was still the 'jolly old elf,' etc. Claremont was a fantastic writer but there are very few things he's written since the turn of the millennium that really measure up to his original Uncanny run.

    "I'll always love you, Jean Grey." "I'll always love you too, Scott Summers." - Scott Summers and Jean Grey

  6. #36
    Mighty Member WheelchairX's Avatar
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    What do you guys feel about Wolverine's claws? Within Claremont's run, they were stated to be mechanical, added by Weapon Plus, however, after Fatal Attractions, it became a mutation. Was it important? Do you think it would have added anything to the character?
    I’ve just published my very first work on ‘Archive of Our Own’, under the same name as here. It is the first chapter of ‘I Am My Own Best Friend ~ An Emma Frost Road Trip’, which focuses on Emma between the events of IvX and Secret Empire, including the White Queen going on a road trip, to try and have fun!

    You can read the story here: https://archiveofourown.org/works/15795663

    I hope you enjoy it as much I did writing it!

  7. #37
    Fire and life incarnate! phoenixzero23's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by WheelchairX View Post
    What do you guys feel about Wolverine's claws? Within Claremont's run, they were stated to be mechanical, added by Weapon Plus, however, after Fatal Attractions, it became a mutation. Was it important? Do you think it would have added anything to the character?
    I like his claws being part of his mutation and not the product of a weird experiment. this way they can be inherited by daken, laura, gabby.

  8. #38
    Astonishing Member Silver Fang's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by King_Thor13 View Post
    I don't think retcons are ever really a great idea. I understand writers wanting to shy away from certain storylines, but I think undoing what has already been done is always controversial. I mean, it can help in developing some characters or undoing past errors, but it also causes some confusion and of course removes the intent of the past writer. It should be done sparingly and with great consideration.

    I really didn't like the third Summers brother plot, which was a pretty poor concept in its fruition and didn't really add anything; Vulcan doesn't even hit top 50 X-Villains for me. The Shatterstar/Longshot/Dazzler thing was way too complicated and should have been avoided. I hated how Bishop, one of the only black men in the X-Men, was made out to be a monster in order to contribute to the character of Hope Summers (who is far less extraordinary imo). And the Axis storyline was terrible in how it impacted Havok and Sabretooth, who have yet to be remedied.

    And worst of all, the Maximoff retcon. I hate that the family was essentially undone. It means Wanda, Pietro, Billy and Tommy likely don't have the X-gene. It means Magneto has only one child and no grandchildren. I hate it. I really do.
    I liked AXIS for Sabretooth. But there was so many relaunches with him getting bounced from writer to writer, they never got to do anything with it. But he's evil again in Weapon X. And he's evil in the Hunt for Wolverine too. So it's been dropped.

    2. I'll put that for something I hate right now. There was a lot of potential for Sabretooth with the AXIS event that was thrown away, making these last 3 years and stories pointless since it was dropped with no repercussions. Now Sabretooth is back to D-List villain territory where he has been since 2003, along with being Logan's accessory.

    3. Bishop was a crime. One of the already few black X-characters, and he's destroyed at the expense of one of their white characters. lol

    4. Monet suddenly being Muslim, which I don't think deserves much attention or credit. Not to mention her randomly being made non-black in X-Factor.

    5. Sabretooth x Mystique being in love and having an off-on relationship over the years.

    6. The Domino x Warpath pairing that Pak's trying to sell right now in Weapon X when those 2 never showed any attraction to one another before.

    7. Agreed with Nightcrawler's parentage. Funny how they didn't want two women as his parents, but they're fine with a demon being one of the parents. Preferred it as Mystique (father) x Destiny (mother)
    Last edited by Silver Fang; 02-25-2018 at 05:44 PM.

  9. #39
    Mighty Member WheelchairX's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by phoenixzero23 View Post
    I like his claws being part of his mutation and not the product of a weird experiment. this way they can be inherited by daken, laura, gabby.
    I agree and since I've grown up with it being a mutation, it feels weird that it might have been different.
    I’ve just published my very first work on ‘Archive of Our Own’, under the same name as here. It is the first chapter of ‘I Am My Own Best Friend ~ An Emma Frost Road Trip’, which focuses on Emma between the events of IvX and Secret Empire, including the White Queen going on a road trip, to try and have fun!

    You can read the story here: https://archiveofourown.org/works/15795663

    I hope you enjoy it as much I did writing it!

  10. #40
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    I like these.

    Shatterstar's/Longshot's familial relationship

    -Magneto was a Holocaust survivor whose wife rejected him(while pregnant with Wanda/Pietro) when his powers manifested, making him lose faith in humanity

    -the Cable revealed as baby Nathan Christopher Summers grown up during X-Cutioner's Song

  11. #41
    Ultimate Member Gray Lensman's Avatar
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    Bad

    - characterization resets of Scott and Jean under Morrison.

    - Most Phoenix retcons, but especially anything attaching it to Kun-Lun.

    - Xorn really being Magneto under Morrison, thankfully reset.

    - Nightcrawler, Son of Satan <groan>

  12. #42
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    The stupidest thing so far is the Romulus thing of Wolverino imo. I would retcon that as false memories from psychic Aldo Ferro. Perhaps after M Day he wanted to collect the dna of all feral mutants with healing factors, and that is how he got everybody to be there, with his illusions and lies.

    I also think Monet was better as two little girls fused to become a larger stronger girl.

  13. #43

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    I'm glad they made a real M. The twins posing as her was a great reveal, but I'm glad they bucked Lobdell's idea and kept Monet anyways. She was the true breakout star of Gen X!
    Let the flames destroy all but that which is pure and true!

  14. #44
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    It's interesting how a couple of these (Phoenix is not Jean, Magneto is or isn't Xorn) show up on both sides for people.

    I'm indifferent to the (first) Phoenix retcon, and have hated most of the ones since.

    Azazel as Nightcrawler's father is such an abomination it made me hate the First Class movie simply for including him.

    Most of what Morrison did - cheapening Scott & Jean's relationship, Emma, Xorn/Magneto, the explosion of the mutant population - did significant harm to the X-Universe, in my opinion, leading to a series of mediocre events that made things worse. He would have been so better served to do Ultimate X-men.

    Deadly Genesis was so cringe inducing. Throw in the last 20 years of Xavier is borderline evil retcons.

    Pros:
    Magneto as a Holocaust survivor.

  15. #45
    Extraordinary Member Divine Spark's Avatar
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    Worst: Apocalypse being some brainwashed pawn of Celestial with no agency and he is just apart of a line of Apocalypses.

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