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  1. #76
    Mighty Member Lukmendes's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by AbnormallyNormal View Post
    I do agree it can seem sloppy when these related but distinct ability sets get conflated. But on the other hand, you gotta give writers a break there are SO MANY back issues and noone can possibly have read and remember all of those
    True, it can be difficult to keep track of stuff, but on the other hand, it's their job to be professional, there's always something like wikis, character discussions, or hell, talk with the fans, ask the questions about powers and consistent feats, and if making an official account is not an option (I can see it being embarassing for a writter to ask fans about this kind of shit), they can always just make a fake account, create a thread, ask a question, then check later for the replies, they have a lot of options, and if they don't know something there's no excuse to not try to find an information.

  2. #77

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    Quote Originally Posted by WheelchairX View Post
    When Ellis forgot how old Kitty was in Excalibur and made her date Pete Wisdom, comes to mind.
    I sincerely doubt that had anything to do with anyone being forgetful; it's far more likely that was the result the different overall approach editors and writers were taking. Claremont had a thing for keeping track of character's ages, but by the time the late 90's rolled around he'd been out for a while and no one else was pretending the IP was actually going to age in anything like real time. So characters were (and still are) just assumed to be as old as they needed to be for the story to work (see also: Wolfsbane in Excalibur and Academy X, Blindfold in X-Men: Legacy, Cypher's resurrection, etc.).
    Last edited by Anduinel; 02-26-2018 at 11:50 AM.

  3. #78
    Jubilant Member Dementia5's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by The Dying Detective View Post
    Why doesn't any of these companies keep detailed notes one their characters on what they can or cannot do and what happened in the old stories? Then again Alan Moore was right comics especially superhero comics need a more flexible approach to continuity if only Twilight of the Superheroes was published it had a plan to allow a more flexible continuity. And then writers could just do away with what stood in the way of their stories a lot easier and fans get some degree of stability everyone wins.
    The problem is that a big part of investing yourself in your favourite character is truly understanding that character. Retconning or forgetting character details can, to a certain extent, undermine this.
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    Yer bonkers and you need a sandwich.

  4. #79
    The Detective Man The Dying Detective's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dementia5 View Post
    The problem is that a big part of investing yourself in your favourite character is truly understanding that character. Retconning or forgetting character details can, to a certain extent, undermine this.
    In regards to character details that is true but as for continuity making it inflexible can be a problem for writers who for sometimes understandable reasons want to disregard so that they can tell the stories they want to tell. So remembering a character's history and abilities are important to giving some stability to continuity but going forward is the issue.
    "Excellent!" I cried. "Elementary," said he

  5. #80
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    Quote Originally Posted by Anduinel View Post
    I sincerely doubt that had anything to do with anyone being forgetful; it's far more likely that was the result the different overall approach editors and writers were taking. Claremont had a thing for keeping track of character's ages, but by the time the late 90's rolled around he'd been out for a while and no one else was pretending the IP was actually going to age in anything like real time. So characters were (and still are) just assumed to be as old as they needed to be for the story to work (see also: Wolfsbane in Excalibur and Academy X, Blindfold in X-Men: Legacy, Cypher's resurrection, etc.).
    I hate it when characters who spent a long time dead are treated as if they aged while they were death.
    Cypher should be closer to Hellion and the kids of that generation (in age), than to Dani or Cannonball or Kitty.

  6. #81
    Ultimate Member Havok83's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by lurkerforyears View Post
    I hate it when characters who spent a long time dead are treated as if they aged while they were death.
    Cypher should be closer to Hellion and the kids of that generation (in age), than to Dani or Cannonball or Kitty.
    Why? He was a decomposed corpse. All that was left was bone and skeletons still "age". He was restored via magic and techno organic virus so his physical appearance could be whatever Selene wanted it to be. His flesh was restored to how old his bones were. Makes sense to me

  7. #82

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    The real kicker is when you realize the age gap between the New Mutants, Gen Xer's, and New X-Men/Academy, Five Lights, etc just gets smaller and smaller every year. You had Fraction making the NM's barely 21 in the Utopia era, but Transonic was already in college when she debuted. Jubilee(who debuted in 1989) is somehow a teenaged mom and yet teaches a class of teenagers who just debuted in the last couple of years(or 15 years ago, in QQ's case), but supposedly X-23 is already a young 20 something?
    Let the flames destroy all but that which is pure and true!

  8. #83
    Ultimate Member Havok83's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by yogaflame View Post
    The real kicker is when you realize the age gap between the New Mutants, Gen Xer's, and New X-Men/Academy, Five Lights, etc just gets smaller and smaller every year. You had Fraction making the NM's barely 21 in the Utopia era, but Transonic was already in college when she debuted. Jubilee(who debuted in 1989) is somehow a teenaged mom and yet teaches a class of teenagers who just debuted in the last couple of years(or 15 years ago, in QQ's case), but supposedly X-23 is already a young 20 something?
    There's always been quite a bit of overlap. For example, Karma debuted at 19 years only, which is the same age Colossus was at the time and she was older than Rogue and Kitty. Jono and Husk were 18 and 17 when Gen X began with Synch and M being 16, yet Kitty, Rahne and Sunspot were 16/17 at the time. Jubilee wasnt that much older than the kids introduced with New X-men and was likely same as many of them. The only time there was a signfiicant gap was going from O5 group to New Mutants bc Xavier wasnt constantly recruiting new classes the way we've since the 80s

  9. #84
    X-Men & Green Lantern Fan Sam Robards, Comic Fan's Avatar
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    A lot of the big ones have been covered here, so I'm going to try and think outside the box.

    Good
    • Wolverine agreeing to join the X-Men to kill Xavier. I know the idea was ripped off the Ultimate line, but Wolverine coming immediately and of his own volition like that always seemed odd to me
    • Sabretooth not being Wolverine's father. I know it was never explicitly stated, but Claremont was leaning heavily in that dimension, and I didn't care for the idea. Good on Hama
    • Wolverine and Sabretooth's feud being born out of Wolverine killing Creed's brother. Sabretooth didn't give a crap about his brother: he just wanted to start screwing with Logan, thinking it'd be fun
    • Bishop wanting to kill Hope in Messiah CompleX: that's right, I said it. Say what you will, but that story gave him a purpose again. It's too bad they never actually gave us the "oh crap, this is what Bishop was talking about" moment. You could argue when Hope finally got the PF in AvX, but that was so brief, and there was never any real danger of her going off the reservation, so to speak



    Bad
    • First X-Men: that series can f%&$ off. Glad it's been ignored/wiped from continuity
    • Whedon's "Cyclops chose to not control his powers" explanation as opposed to being physically incapable due to brain damage: the latter was a far better explanation
    • Deadly Genesis. I like Vulcan in that whiny, Superman Prime kinda way (especially in War of Kings), but the other members of that team were wasted. Could we not have made them a mutant villain team instead of making them fodder?
    • Apocalypse is a mantle that's passed and/or Apocalypse needs to swap bodies (whichever is canon at the moment). I prefer Apocalypse as an immortal being, not a body jumper
    • Jarnbjorn. While that's a Thor retcon, it was first used in a story featuring an X-Villain (Apocalypse), so f%*$ it. I'm counting it.
    What can I say but, "I love comics."

  10. #85
    Ultimate Member Havok83's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sam Robards, Comic Fan View Post
    A lot of the big ones have been covered here, so I'm going to try and think outside the box.

    Good
    [LIST][*]Wolverine agreeing to join the X-Men to kill Xavier. I know the idea was ripped off the Ultimate line, but Wolverine coming immediately and of his own volition like that always seemed odd to me
    explain this one please

  11. #86
    Extraordinary Member Zero Hunter's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sam Robards, Comic Fan View Post
    [*]Apocalypse is a mantle that's passed and/or Apocalypse needs to swap bodies (whichever is canon at the moment). I prefer Apocalypse as an immortal being, not a body jumper
    Man I agree with this one so much. For me that stupid story where they came up with Apocalypse being just a creature that jumps from body to body idea is where the character really started falling apart. I have wished for a long time that it would be revealed that the real En Saban Nur has been healing ever since the end of X-Cutioner's Song and all the apperances since then was just a fake created by Ozymandias to cover for the fact his master was healing.

  12. #87

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    Quote Originally Posted by Zero Hunter View Post
    Man I agree with this one so much. For me that stupid story where they came up with Apocalypse being just a creature that jumps from body to body idea is where the character really started falling apart. I have wished for a long time that it would be revealed that the real En Saban Nur has been healing ever since the end of X-Cutioner's Song and all the apperances since then was just a fake created by Ozymandias to cover for the fact his master was healing.
    That works for me! Apocalypse stories have diminished returns with each pass. Reset to the X-Factor/TAS phase please!
    Let the flames destroy all but that which is pure and true!

  13. #88
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    I disagree completely. I prefer Apocalypse to be a title, like, I don't know, Pope, with successors and predecessors.

    For me the problem is we should have had a new Apocalypse the last years.
    The retcon I dislike about Apocalypse is the life seeds and death seeds. I prefer Horsemen to be like in Age of Apocalypse, very high ranking politicians/military leaders, always in control of their minds, absolutely capable of conspiring against Apocalypse.

    In Age of Apocalypse half of the horsemen betray Apocalypse (Sinister and Mikhail Rasputin)

    The death seed affecting the minds of the horsemen and making them slaves to Apocalypse is much much worse.

  14. #89
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    To me the ONLY time Recons should be used are events in a persons life NEVER to justify dumb changes.

    Good Retcon: Charles and Magneto serving in "THE WAR!", but not which war.

    Dumb Retcon: Charles being a jackass.

  15. #90
    Better than YOU! Alan2099's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zero Hunter View Post
    Man I agree with this one so much. For me that stupid story where they came up with Apocalypse being just a creature that jumps from body to body idea is where the character really started falling apart. I have wished for a long time that it would be revealed that the real En Saban Nur has been healing ever since the end of X-Cutioner's Song and all the apperances since then was just a fake created by Ozymandias to cover for the fact his master was healing.
    I don't even mind the first time we really saw the idea. The Adventures of Cyclops and Phoenix (as far as I know) introduced the idea that Apocalypse needed a new body, but it worked there. This was the far far far future and while Apocalypse is old in our time, he was ancient there. I can udnerstand him wanting a new body to keep going.

    The problem is, that became his thing.

    And on top of that, they retconned it so that he was just a pawn of the Celestials the whole time anyway. The basically took a untamable beast, tamed it,a and pulled all it's teeth.

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