Should Superman be outright best at anything?

[jimmy]

So should Superman be a better detective than Batman?

Hmm...Ideally, since Superman should have a Super powered brain - I'll say yes or, at least the potential is more than there, and with out going to the dark-side. Let's say that Superman's mind works like a quantum computer, then deduction can be accomplished with pure scientific logic of a mathematical formula.

Superman's mind Programming would include any physical and mental makeup like knowing someone's; character, temperament, capabilities, habits surroundings etc... These combinations and, or permutations of variables(depending if the order is assumed) to determine "the method to one's madness".

These factors would be processed internally allowing Superman to make the appropriate algorithm calculation in his head. So, Superman could very well have a more than a good idea, if not, plot exactly - the individuals next course(s) of action.

[Kuwagaton]

I consider it part of the balance to suspension of disbelief. If we have it that inexplicably no one can figure out his secret identity based on his glasses, then we can say that Bruce is the better detective through effort and interest, despite Clark being incredibly bright, super powered, and genetically superior. Intelligence is the only trait in comics that can surpass human levels naturally.

[Johnny Thunders!]

I think he would be a better detective than Batman. How much faster would he think, survey an area, examine a crime scene? There is no going back to the batcave to use a microscope or super computer, he has all of those tools at his fingertips as just part of his regular power-set.

[Jon Clark]

I think he would be a better detective than Batman. How much faster would he think, survey an area, examine a crime scene? There is no going back to the batcave to use a microscope or super computer, he has all of those tools at his fingertips as just part of his regular power-set.

Superman has a better toolset for doing detective work, but that doesn't mean he will make the best use of it. Superman might be able to tell you what that microscopic piece of sand looks like in nauseating detail, but that doesn't mean he has any better ability to tell you what that grain of sand implies about the criminal. He might be able to find a dozen more fingerprints, hair samples, and other evidence that strengthen the case against Joe Blow as the perpetrator but it doesn't give him any better insight as to what Joe's next target is, where Joe is hiding, or who else might be helping Joe.

[Johnny Thunders!]

Superman has a better toolset for doing detective work, but that doesn't mean he will make the best use of it. Superman might be able to tell you what that microscopic piece of sand looks like in nauseating detail, but that doesn't mean he has any better ability to tell you what that grain of sand implies about the criminal. He might be able to find a dozen more fingerprints, hair samples, and other evidence that strengthen the case against Joe Blow as the perpetrator but it doesn't give him any better insight as to what Joe's next target is, where Joe is hiding, or who else might be helping Joe.

I think you have to intentionally limit what Superman does with the information he receives to make this argument. He has a supercomputer in his head, he has spent a life time intuiting information with it, plus he is a reporter, and he is steeped in the scientific method. I think it reduces Superman to just a warehouse of information to dismiss his ability to also analyze and process all those ideas that his almost cosmic senses give him. Plus the super speed and the way time would work differently for him?

[Powerboy]

Superman has a better toolset for doing detective work, but that doesn't mean he will make the best use of it. Superman might be able to tell you what that microscopic piece of sand looks like in nauseating detail, but that doesn't mean he has any better ability to tell you what that grain of sand implies about the criminal. He might be able to find a dozen more fingerprints, hair samples, and other evidence that strengthen the case against Joe Blow as the perpetrator but it doesn't give him any better insight as to what Joe's next target is, where Joe is hiding, or who else might be helping Joe.

To be honest, it also creates yet another thing that would be frequently ignored for the sake of having a story.

Most people revere "Whatever Happened to the Man of Tomorrow?" Remember when Superman's secret identity was revealed? I kept thinking, "Why doesn't he just use his super speed when his clothes are being destroyed to expose his costume? Why doesn't he just fly to a clothing store, grab an exact duplicate of his suit, leave the money, change clothes and fly back standing in the same position before anyone even knows he was gone like he did in previous stories in situations like that?"

The more areas that get added to his super abilities, the more even the best writers have to ignore those abilities.

I would keep him the strongest and most durable and close enough to the Flash in speed. His sensory powers are very rare anyway. he can and should be very smart but I don't think he has to be as good a detective as Batman or as skilled in combat as Wonder Woman or quite as fast as the Flash. Give him his niche of strength and durability, make him close in everything else while being the most inspirational.

[Agent Z]

I think you have to intentionally limit what Superman does with the information he receives to make this argument. He has a supercomputer in his head, he has spent a life time intuiting information with it, plus he is a reporter, and he is steeped in the scientific method. I think it reduces Superman to just a warehouse of information to dismiss his ability to also analyze and process all those ideas that his almost cosmic senses give him. Plus the super speed and the way time would work differently for him?

More like people have to have read his comics and been familiar with how his powers have been depicted for the most part to come to the conclusion that he isn't a detective and many of his stories aren't detective plots. I mean, how often does this "supercomputer" thing even come up? For this to be a trait of his, it would have to be reinforced constantly and not just brought up when a writer wants to do a tribute to the Silver Age.

[Johnny Thunders!]

I bet I can find examples of Superman using super-intelligence from every decade including the golden age.

[SiegePerilous02]

Superman shouldn't be a great detective. I agree with what another poster said (I believe it was SK), that his brain isn't wired like ours, so that adds an extra barrier to getting in the minds of human criminals. Which is a mindset not many humans have either.

Superman's intellect is superior to Batman's in the areas of science and writing, but detective work? Leave that to Bruce. It's the one area that Batman, and others like Ralph Dibny and even Nightwing, should be superior to him in.

[Johnny Thunders!]

I get why Batman should be the better detective just like I get why Aquaman would be the better swimmer or Hawkman the better flyer, I just think it doesn't make sense given Superman's power set. I go to this well a lot but saying Batman is a better detective than Superman only works if Superman's mind works like a human being. Or his sense of time, or how fast he thinks. I don't think that makes sense given the range of Superman's powers. It's like saying Rorshach is a better detective than Dr. Manhattan. Or Nite Owl is a better boxer. Dr. Manhattan is on a different level, and Superman, all his powers in place, is a completely different type of being than Batman. Superman gets dialed down to work in a shared universe, but that doesn't mean it makes sense.

[Jon Clark]

I get why Batman should be the better detective just like I get why Aquaman would be the better swimmer or Hawkman the better flyer, I just think it doesn't make sense given Superman's power set. I go to this well a lot but saying Batman is a better detective than Superman only works if Superman's mind works like a human being. Or his sense of time, or how fast he thinks. I don't think that makes sense given the range of Superman's powers. It's like saying Rorshach is a better detective than Dr. Manhattan. Or Nite Owl is a better boxer. Dr. Manhattan is on a different level, and Superman, all his powers in place, is a completely different type of being than Batman. Superman gets dialed down to work in a shared universe, but that doesn't mean it makes sense.

But it's more than a shared universe that dials back the powers. If Superman was really as powerful as his most impressive descriptions all the time then almost every story fall apart.

Either Superman or the Flash would have defeated opponents between panels and have had time to get coffee besides. Guys like Luthor, Metallo, or Captain Cold wouldn't have time to activate their weapons before the hero had taken 100 different actions. So except for the punch of another speedster any physical attack is easily evaded.

With his supersenses (combined with his memory) Superman would recognize any opponent, or even ally, despite how they hid or disguised themselves. So no stories where Lois or Jimmy catches Clark changing into Superman, since he would hear them coming a mile away. Lex can't disguise himself to lull Superman into trusting him or manage to escape by blending into the crowd as Superman would have memorized Lex's odor, DNA sequence, and brain-wave pattern to compare against every person in the crowd.

The stories only work because Superman using his powers at that level of effectiveness is a rare occurrence. He seems to have a normal human level (like Barry Allen with speed) that is how he perceives the world like 99% of the time. He isn't recalling Lois' conversations verbatim despite having the ability to do so, which means that just like the rest of us Clark won't catch her contradicting something she said off handedly months ago. He isn't waiting years from his viewpoint between the syllables of Lex's monologue and thus isn't planning his reply between the K and Y in "Kryptonian". He might have memorized the Metropolis Yellow Pages but he isn't going to know everone on dight.

[Johnny Thunders!]

Batman and Superman have to find Captain Cold in a 500 mile radius. Batman grabs his magnifying glass, sets up his microscope, feeds data in the bat computer, shakes down associates at a local bar... Superman scans the county at super speed with x ray vision. Which detects faster?

[Jon Clark]

Batman and Superman have to find Captain Cold in a 500 mile radius. Batman grabs his magnifying glass, sets up his microscope, feeds data in the bat computer, shakes down associates at a local bar... Superman scans the county at super speed with x ray vision. Which detects faster?

Superman is faster. Not disputing that.

But Captain Cold already set his plan in motion before he was captured. A device designed to freeze the water supply in a major city will detonate in 10 minutes. Batman asks 5 questions of Snart and uses the JLA transporter to beam to a specific location. Superman searches a dozen cities inch by inch before locating the device. Both men arrive at the same moment to deactivate the device.

Which one showed better detective skills?

Or to put it in the tech field: If Superman builds a device to disable Brainiac's force field in 5 minutes but ran through a thousand designs while Tony Stark also came up with a device in 5 minutes but it was his first design- who is an inventive genius? Sure both did it in 5 minutes- but Superman took the long route. If Stark was given Superman's speed then he'd have had the same device in under a second.

And the Bruce Wayne of Krypton would have found Captain Cold faster than Superman because his deductive skills would let him eliminate places to look that Superman would need to still examine.

[Powerboy]

But it's more than a shared universe that dials back the powers. If Superman was really as powerful as his most impressive descriptions all the time then almost every story fall apart.

Either Superman or the Flash would have defeated opponents between panels and have had time to get coffee besides. Guys like Luthor, Metallo, or Captain Cold wouldn't have time to activate their weapons before the hero had taken 100 different actions. So except for the punch of another speedster any physical attack is easily evaded.

With his supersenses (combined with his memory) Superman would recognize any opponent, or even ally, despite how they hid or disguised themselves. So no stories where Lois or Jimmy catches Clark changing into Superman, since he would hear them coming a mile away. Lex can't disguise himself to lull Superman into trusting him or manage to escape by blending into the crowd as Superman would have memorized Lex's odor, DNA sequence, and brain-wave pattern to compare against every person in the crowd.

The stories only work because Superman using his powers at that level of effectiveness is a rare occurrence. He seems to have a normal human level (like Barry Allen with speed) that is how he perceives the world like 99% of the time. He isn't recalling Lois' conversations verbatim despite having the ability to do so, which means that just like the rest of us Clark won't catch her contradicting something she said off handedly months ago. He isn't waiting years from his viewpoint between the syllables of Lex's monologue and thus isn't planning his reply between the K and Y in "Kryptonian". He might have memorized the Metropolis Yellow Pages but he isn't going to know everone on dight.

Exactly. The more you make Superman number one in everything, the more you're going to just have to ignore everything for a story. Even Alan Moore had to do that. Of course, that's common in comic books. It happens to every character. It doesn't mean Superman at his best can't do these things. But it's still going to be just as frustrating to the reader when those abilities are ignored 99% of the time. I would even argue that the true abilities of a character, for story purposes, are not their best or worst showings but what they are most of the time.

I occasionally run roleplaying games and, if anyone asks why characters in rpg's cannot be as powerful as characters in comics at their best, it's because, in rpg's, I'm not going to be able to make those players ignore those abilities most of the time. Likewise, even the best comic writers must get frustrated with criticisms that amount to nothing more than, "But you ignore this ability that Superman or the Flash can do ten thousand million billion things in a nano-second." They must want to scream, "No. You ignore the 99.999999999% of the time that they cant."

[Johnny Thunders!]

My point is that Superman doesn't have to use detective skills. He just needs to look, listen, and move to counter most human threats. He's working on a different level than Batman. In these scenarios, Batman is always going to be "peak" Batman, Superman at "peak" Superman is just going to do things better. What if in the space of a second, before Batman even says his first word to Cold, Superman runs through a 1,000 scenarios in his mind as to where Cold hid the device, or he detects a trace chemical on Cold's glove that he immediately recognizes based on his vision powers. He can smell where Cold has been and knows that was the last place he'd been. I know I am working with a Superman at his most dialed up but the question asks should Superman be the best at anything and I say at best showings, Superman should be the best at lots of stuff.