Detective Comics #975 preview

[EMarie]

I'd love to have the Bat family acting like an actual family but I've seen very few writers making an effort to do it. I might be missing some titles but whenever they have been together as a group since New 52 to now it's always felt forced. They don't feel like a family which made the sudden sibling time before Jason showed up ring false to me. Does Damian even like any of them besides Dick, Alfred and his father? Jason has a complicated relationship with Bruce and had a brotherly relationship with Tim. The distance between Dick and him was discussed in the RHATO annual with it ending on a hopeful note. Yet they both question his appearance like he doesn't belong there. His black sheep status is taken even further with him knowing what their thinking and lingering away from them. Then he's suddenly overly open about wanting to be part of the family making it sound like he's giving up his beliefs for it?

I don't mind it if Bruce is called out for some of his problems but I agree it's been happening too much to the point he looks like he never grows pass his mistakes. This could have been a far more engaging read if it dealt with all of Kate's actions, whether the killing was right, Tim's future, etc. And having everyone be a part of it.

[Lady Nightwing]

"Water under the bridge", haha. We`re still pretending Jason hasn`t shown he`s willing to go the other way `round and that`s part of why Batman vouches him.

It's cool that he shows remorse and all but at the end of the day the people he killed are still quite dead . Bruce didn't impose any sanctions, there was no family "trial" and he didn't strip him of the right to wear the Bat symbol. I'm not bringing this up to annoy Jason fans, just pointing out Bruce's hypocrisy. I think Jason's body count is a lot higher than Kate's and I personally feel that Bruce and Tim, despite their well meaning intentions are partially responsible for Clayfaces attack on monster town.

Because it was so awful of Bruce to do what Gotham's worthless prisons SHOULD do and help rehabilitate one of his rogues, while simultaneously using his abilities to help save people.

I give Bruce crap when he deserves it and while did screw up a LOT, this was not one of the ways in which he did so.

I'm not against Bruce trying to rehabilitate criminals but he should have waited until the cure was finalised. Or at least had a fool proof plan to take him down should Clayface return to his old ways. Instead he trained him to be a more effective fighter and Tim supersized him. That's on Tynion though, most people don't write Bruce so unprepared.

*sigh* And then we have Damian. Not gonna lie. I was legitimately hoping to hear his opinion on the matter. But I forgot there are still writers out there who think "Obnoxious Brat" is his only setting...like...it's barely even his default setting anymore :/

This was one of the biggest disappointments for me too. I guess it would be too much effort to write Damian having an opinion on a topic that is incredibly relevant to him.

Some things that bugged me is that Dick now adores Tim again, just like that, no build up. It was weird to see him cooing over Tim when Damian was *right* there.

Why was Cass loitering in Damians bedroom?

I never gave it much though but I assumed Cass lived at the Belfry, the cave or the manor. Wtf? It feels out of character for Bruce to let a teenager squat in a building.

I normally love it when the family get a together but it was hard to enjoy this issue when the issue with Kate is so contrived.

(None of my comments were meant as Bruce bashing, it was Tynions version of Bruce(and Tim and Steph) that I take issue with.

On the plus side

Rejoice Red Hood fans! Jason wasn't the butt of the joke

[Hulkout42]

I decided to go back and read all the issues leading up to this one and frankly i have to agree this just seems to be case after case of Bat bashing for reasons that only make sense to his accusers while he sits there and takes it...it's ludicrous in my eyes!

I mean this is a guy who can tell the members of the JL where to shove it when they get in his face but he takes this crap from his "family" and does nothing? That makes no sense.

Yes there are times he deserves it but here and now it just seems cheap and lazy and done for no other reason but because it can.

I mean i get that this is part of some end game with that little psycho and OMAC but really at this point i just don't care, in fact with the exception of Selina (which i am grateful she wasn't involved in this latest faux pa) i say get rid of all them...well and maybe keep Damian and Dick

[Blue22]

i say get rid of all them...well and maybe keep Damian and Dick

And yet Damian's the only one he's seemed to have gotten rid of. We're like...two years into Rebirth and Robin's still only a minor character in both Batman books. I can count on one hand the number of times I remember these two interacting with each other since Damian's come back from the dead.

[nonsense man]

Yes I agree only dick and daiman should be in completely with bruce. You can send the rest and make them into an army the sometimes communicates with him but is mostly autonomus

[kaimaciel]

Yes I agree only dick and daiman should be in completely with bruce. You can send the rest and make them into an army the sometimes communicates with him but is mostly autonomus

I completely disagree. The Batfamily is one of most interesting and complex aspects of the Batman mythos in my opinion. I know as Jason fan that I'm bias, but cutting everyone except Dick and Damian makes it very limited. Every member should matter, not just the first son and blood son, that's why I don't care about the animated movies.

[Godlike13]

That’s easy to say, but the more there are the less they individually matter.

[bat1987]

I decided to go back and read all the issues leading up to this one and frankly i have to agree this just seems to be case after case of Bat bashing for reasons that only make sense to his accusers while he sits there and takes it...it's ludicrous in my eyes!

I mean this is a guy who can tell the members of the JL where to shove it when they get in his face but he takes this crap from his "family" and does nothing? That makes no sense.

Yes there are times he deserves it but here and now it just seems cheap and lazy and done for no other reason but because it can.

I mean i get that this is part of some end game with that little psycho and OMAC but really at this point i just don't care, in fact with the exception of Selina (which i am grateful she wasn't involved in this latest faux pa) i say get rid of all them...well and maybe keep Damian and Dick

Agreed with this. I liked the premise of the book when it was announced, but it quickly went downhill from there. Like the only reason Bruce was there was to make everyone else look good throughout most of the run. Won't miss Tynion on this tittle, good riddance.

[K. Jones]

I hoped for more from Damian but I actually thought his annoying moment here might be quite in-character. Damian "should" side with Kate because he's done the same thing, and with far less guilt about it. He assassinated THREE Batman villains. Logically he should understand her dilemma the most because his actions have been the most similar. Jason thinks he gets her, but Jason is actually totally a revengist. He's a hardcore Punisher-style lethal vigilante, who literally spelled out again this issue that he only behaves in Gotham City because he misses his family - and he and Bruce have done "work" to try to understand each other and accept each other (which Bruce now needs to do for Kate).

Anyway, Damian, as a 13-year old who is trying to be better, almost certainly doesn't want to bring up the fact that he killed three supervillains in front of this group. His father is here, who he desperately wants to live up to. Grayson is here, who he loves the most. Tim is here, who he doesn't want to show weakness in front of. Jason is here, who he doesn't want to admit to being a "failed Robin" in front of. Barbara is here, who is a veteran of the core Bat-group back to the tail end of the Silver Age and who reads people very well.

His instinct would almost certainly be to clam up and be a little shit, even though if he were more grown up and mature and emotionally aware he'd be defending his second-cousin.

Even his line is telling, talking about what it means for anyone to call themselves "Bat-Family" - that's your second-cousin, little dude. She's not just Bruce's closest relative, she's yours too - although that dialogue is a little disingenuous. I get Barbara's argument and it works fine, but for accuracy's sake - JAKE is Bruce's closest living relative and the closest connection to his mother. Furthermore, calling Kate that is kind of iffy ... because Beth is alive, too.

...

All in all a lot of the kids fell where I thought they'd fall on the scale but for different reasons. That's what I liked about the issue, actually. I mean Dick I think I nailed his thoughts - as the just BEST, he sees the best, but as Batman's greatest ally, who has had to do some iffy shit and spy shit, he doesn't want to right off the case of the moral gray area. But Tim is more of a Batman Orthodox, which we knew he must be going into the story.

Babs I thought for sure they might play up the fact that she's the daughter of a cop - and you sure know that she's not judging Jim Gordon harshly for having had to use lethal force in the past. But I liked that she saw a different angle of the whole situation. Jason, I knew where he'd fall but I didn't expect him to get personal with it - but I probably should have expected him to get personal. That's what the Red Hood does in the Bat-Family. He makes things personal.

My grievance I think is we didn't have Steph or Cass contribute much to the trial, but it kind of worked - Cass because seeing her hang out with Alfred and work it out, and seeing how the effect on her is on Kate's mind works in a big way. The good point with Steph was just that she and Babs are working together more. Babs was the one talking up the Batgirls the most and ... oh boy ... yes please. Yes please, more Babs tutoring Steph and Cass. Every time Babs has tutored Steph in recent history since Batman Eternal, I've gotten BQM pangs. More.

[Comic Book Addict]

I enjoyed this issue a lot, as it brought in the whole gang to deliberate Kate's "trial." I liked how Barbara turns it around on Bruce, and I'm curious to see where we go from here.

[JBatmanFan05]

Tynion said a lot of fans don’t like his work due to how often he has characters tell Bruce Wayne he’s wrong. “Some fans really, really don’t like that,” though fans are more OK when Batgirl (Barbara Gordon) does it.

https://www.cbr.com/eccc-2018-dc-com...writers-panel/

Obviously comics are a good bit about conflict and drama, which also happen to sell. That said, Scott Snyder (with his pal Tynion and others perhaps following Scott's lead) has ushered in a debatable era of Batman being antagonistic with his fam (Snyder made that clear with Dick) and making a lot of mistakes all the time (it may feel like) and being constantly raked over the coals by his fam or other heroes or teams.

While the 90s and etc saw Batman make mistakes and get criticized, I wonder if it happens too much nowadays. Like he's this constant punching bag.

[millernumber1]

https://www.cbr.com/eccc-2018-dc-com...writers-panel/

Obviously comics are a good bit about conflict and drama, which also happen to sell. That said, Scott Snyder (with his pal Tynion and others perhaps following Scott's lead) has ushered in a debatable era of Batman being antagonistic with his fam (Snyder made that clear with Dick) and making a lot of mistakes all the time (it may feel like) and being constantly raked over the coals by his fam or other heroes or teams.

While the 90s and etc saw Batman make mistakes and get criticized, I wonder if it happens too much nowadays. Like he's this constant punching bag.

I think saying the Tynion and Snyder made him antagonistic to the family as if that is unique isn't accurate. The Rucka/Brubaker era was pretty hostile to the Batfamily, as was War Games and its aftermath. I think coming out of Batman Inc is what highlights Snyder's effect.

[JBatmanFan05]

I think saying the Tynion and Snyder made him antagonistic to the family as if that is unique isn't accurate. The Rucka/Brubaker era was pretty hostile to the Batfamily, as was War Games and its aftermath. I think coming out of Batman Inc is what highlights Snyder's effect.

You're right in that we saw a good bit of it (maybe too much!) prior to Morrison/Dini and maybe there it abated some (except for Jason of course) thru Inc (end of pre-FP). Then Snyder saw Dick and Bruce as more antagonistic, said so in interviews and that has taken us back to more intrafamily fighting and Batman taking all sorts of blame for many decisions.

I think there is a fair question of when an era of Batman comics has Batman perhaps being written as making too many mistakes and being constantly taken to task about them. Is it a well gone to too often?


I probably couldn't list all the big and little ones since New 52...Harper's mother/Mother in B&R Eternal, Death of the Fam, etc.

[Doctor Bifrost]

In the end, if Bruce hadn't been impressed he wouldnt have reveal himself to him. To suggest otherwise does a disservice to both characters.

I never said Bruce wasn't impressed.

[Doctor Bifrost]

that's your second-cousin, little dude.

First cousin, once removed.