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  1. #1
    Extraordinary Member Caivu's Avatar
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    Default Detective Comics #975 preview

    http://www.comicsbeat.com/exclusive-...or-war-crimes/

    More of baby Bruce and Kate, in a companion scene to the opening of #939. Kate's revenge-oriented mindset is right in line with how she's previously been depicted at this point.

    Wish we got more pages, especially since this is a longer issue.
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  2. #2
    I am a diamond, Ms. Pryde millernumber1's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Caivu View Post
    http://www.comicsbeat.com/exclusive-...or-war-crimes/

    More of baby Bruce and Kate, in a companion scene to the opening of #939. Kate's revenge-oriented mindset is right in line with how she's previously been depicted at this point.

    Wish we got more pages, especially since this is a longer issue.
    1) MARTINEZ!

    I have missed him so much.

    2) This kind of flashback calling back to the first arc is the kind of solid construction I love about Tynion.

    3) I wonder how much of Steph's analysis of Batmans' reason for founding the team back in The Victim Syndicate may be part of his reasons for asking Kate to be part of it.
    "We're the same thing, you and I. We're both lies that eventually became the truth." Lara Notsil, Star Wars: X-Wing: Solo Command, Aaron Allston
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    "There's room in our line of work for hope, too." Stephanie Brown
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  3. #3
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    Why dont we kill them?

    Because he's the goddamn Batman.

  4. #4
    Extraordinary Member Caivu's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Barbatos666 View Post
    Why dont we kill them?

    Because he's the goddamn Batman.
    Not at that point.
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  5. #5
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    I'm starting to get the sense that it's amazing this partnership and team with Bruce and Kate managed to last as long as it did, because it feels like this kind of conflict between the two was inevitable.

  6. #6
    Extraordinary Member Caivu's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Frontier View Post
    I'm starting to get the sense that it's amazing this partnership and team with Bruce and Kate managed to last as long as it did, because it feels like this kind of conflict between the two was inevitable.
    Yep. It's been brewing underneath things the entire time.

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  7. #7
    Mighty Member Katana500's Avatar
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    I quite like seeing the scenes of young Bruce and Kate. They seem to have been closer as cousins in the past than I first assumed.

  8. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by Katana500 View Post
    I quite like seeing the scenes of young Bruce and Kate. They seem to have been closer as cousins in the past than I first assumed.
    Well its her aunts funeral. Of course she is around then and they probably hung out if the parents met or parties and such but I don't think Martha and her Brother were close enough that their kids hung out outside of family functions.

    Also I always assumed Kate wasn't that much younger than bruce 5 years younger at the very most because her Dad was always portrayed as only a bit younger than Martha so I just had to carry over to the kids as well.

    Also Bette is most like just being born or not to far from being born when they talk about this. I just realized that the kane family rarely talks about the waynes and Bruces dad rarely talked about the kanes. I always wondered what Bad blood was between the family to make them this distant from each other

  9. #9
    Extraordinary Member Caivu's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bigwinnie101 View Post
    Also I always assumed Kate wasn't that much younger than bruce 5 years younger at the very most because her Dad was always portrayed as only a bit younger than Martha so I just had to carry over to the kids as well.
    Bruce was about 25 during Zero Year and Kate was still at West Point during that time, which she left at 20, so pretty much. More recently it seems to have been slightly shaved down to a difference of 2 or 3 years. Maybe 4.

    I just realized that the kane family rarely talks about the waynes and Bruces dad rarely talked about the kanes. I always wondered what Bad blood was between the family to make them this distant from each other
    The Kanes did not like Thomas Wayne and didn't approve of Martha marrying him.
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  10. #10
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    Ugh. Very lame preview.

    Since there's nothing really about the preview to discuss, there is something about the run I want to bring up. I've long been a defender against the idea that Tynion writes Bruce as incompetent, on more than one occasion having cited Tynion's interpretation of the character as one of my favorites. And while the latter part is still true in some respects...Bruce has done a lot of dumbs. A lot of mistakes, which, had he been smarter, he could have prevented this disaster. And really, they each apply to a different member of the team.

    Tim- He's the god dang nasty Batman, and he didn't think to CHECK if damage to the mudroom could cause 'King Clayface' to happen?

    Steph: Why did he recruit her? Simple question: Why. Did he. Recruit her? If this was BatgirlSteph in terms of personality and skill, it would have made sense. BUT, with the way the character has been presented here, obnoxious, self-righteous, BEYOND idiotic, and being inferior in nearly all ways skill wise to the other members of the team, I fail to see any reason why Bruce brought her in from an in-universe perspective. The sad thing is that this whole conflict with Steph was clearly created to replicate her old conflict with Bruce without making Bruce a dick, but because of how she's been written, Bruce not accepting her would seem entirely justified here.

    Cass: You know Bruce, maybe if you'd spent more time bonding with Cass, possibly even adopted her as you're already the closest thing to a father she's got, she wouldn't be having to deal with the fact that the ONLY person who ever acted like they gave a damn about her outside of when it was convenient was dead.

    Luke and Jean-Paul: Because of any lack of motivation consistent with their characters, I'm forced to believe that they went with Kate because Bruce refused to pay them. "I've told you two a million times, I'll pay you when you start contributing to the plot!"

    And of course...

    Quote Originally Posted by Frontier View Post
    I'm starting to get the sense that it's amazing this partnership and team with Bruce and Kate managed to last as long as it did, because it feels like this kind of conflict between the two was inevitable.
    Kate: Bruce...you've clearly always known what kind of person she is. Why, god why, did you think it was a good idea to give her so much authority and instill such an unearned sense of self-importance in her when you knew she had different beliefs from yours and you yourself certainly never REALLY saw yourselves as equals.

    Oh, and of course there's him not calling the Justice League about Clayface. I know I keep harping on this, but it's not a small point. Kinda like the "What happened to Cass?" plot hole in Lonely Place of Living "Why didn't he call the Justice League" is the kind of thing that just destroys the whole story for me. Mind you, Lonely Place of Living and Fall of the Batmen's plots were fusterclucks of awfulness from start to finish, so its not like covering the holes would have saved the stories either.
    Last edited by Assam; 02-26-2018 at 10:34 AM.

  11. #11
    Extraordinary Member Caivu's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Assam View Post
    Tim- He's the god dang nasty Batman, and he didn't think to CHECK if damage to the mudroom could cause 'King Clayface' to happen?
    Damage is irrelevant, since Clayface could come into contact with excess clay during normal operation. And the excess clay just exacerbated his condition; I don't think it alone would have turned him.

    Steph: Why did he recruit her? Simple question: Why. Did he. Recruit her? If this was BatgirlSteph in terms of personality and skill, it would have made sense. BUT, with the way the character has been presented here, obnoxious, self-righteous, BEYOND idiotic, and being inferior in nearly all ways skill wise to the other members of the team, I fail to see any reason why Bruce brought her in from an in-universe perspective. The sad thing is that this whole conflict with Steph was clearly created to replicate her old conflict with Bruce without making Bruce a dick, but because of how she's been written, Bruce not accepting her would seem entirely justified here.
    One of the ostensible reasons for the team's formation was to protect and train some of the the younger vigilantes, yeah? So if she's less skilled, that seems an obvious choice. Plus the alleged idiocy, self-righteousness, and obnoxiousness didn't happen until later.

    Cass: You know Bruce, maybe if you'd spent more time bonding with Cass, possibly even adopted her as you're already the closest thing to a father she's got, she wouldn't be having to deal with the fact that the ONLY person who ever acted like they gave a damn about her outside of when it was convenient was dead.
    Didn't Bruce say something to this effect earlier?

    Luke and Jean-Paul: Because of any lack of motivation consistent with their characters, I'm forced to believe that they went with Kate because Bruce refused to pay them. "I've told you two a million times, I'll pay you when you start contributing to the plot!"
    Luke makes sense and JPV seems to have sided with her by default, since Bruce was basically all like "you're with me or against me".

    Kate: Bruce...you've clearly always known what kind of person she is. Why, god why, did you think it was a good idea to give her so much authority and instill such an unearned sense of self-importance in her when you knew she had different beliefs from yours and you yourself certainly never REALLY saw yourselves as equals.
    He recruited her, in part, to keep her from tipping Jacob off about his investigation.

    Oh, and of course there's him not calling the Justice League about Clayface. I know I keep harping on this, but it's not a small point. Kinda like the "What happened to Cass?" plot hole in Lonely Place of Living "Why didn't he call the Justice League" is the kind of thing that just destroys the whole story for me.
    I don't get why this is some kind of hard question. They were busy, simple as that.
    Last edited by Caivu; 02-26-2018 at 10:56 AM.
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  12. #12
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    Call the Justice League is kinda plot killer for a lot stories though.

  13. #13
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    Are Babs and Damian showing up here?

    I can already imagine Damian saying guilty before the trial even starts.

  14. #14
    Extraordinary Member Caivu's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Barbatos666 View Post
    Are Babs and Damian showing up here?

    I can already imagine Damian saying guilty before the trial even starts.
    They are.
    And he has no room to talk, the little murderer.
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  15. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by Caivu View Post
    Bruce was about 25 during Zero Year and Kate was still at West Point during that time, which she left at 20, so pretty much. More recently it seems to have been slightly shaved down to a difference of 2 or 3 years. Maybe 4.
    Seems more like one of the typical time line inconsistencies.
    I actually hoped they would use Rebirth to get rid of those ...

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