Detective Comics #975 preview

[Barbatos666]

Now I realize how Black Panther fans feel about Coates. This is a black mark in the history of Batman.

[Doctor Bifrost]

Now I realize how Black Panther fans feel about Coates. This is a black mark in the history of Batman.

Not all Black Panther fans.

[Barbatos666]

The BP thread postes and others who've followed the character dont exactly have a high opinion of him. Either way I dont understand the logic in butchering your lead character to prop ripoffs with tanking books.

[Aioros22]

I respectfully disagree. Nobody steals hubcaps from THE BATMOBILE when they're desperate and trying to survive. That's just setting yourself up. for a world of trouble. There are plenty of other cars to steal hubcaps from that are not associated with the most powerful and intimidating vigilante in the city. This is what you want to do when you want to show that you ain't scared of nothin'!

And it's one thing for Batman to respect the skills and talents of some people who are "the very best at what they do," even if he disapproves of their goals and methods. It's another thing to be impressed with the "stones" of an adolescent who is taking a pointless risk. There's no indication that Batman could tell that Jason was actually the very best and most talented hubcap thief in all the known world, and was admiring his technique.

I respectfully disagree with your disagreement

Jason enjoyed some risk but there is no indication In either origin that the reason he steals is because he enjoys it. He took risks because he became quite adept to It and he became quite adept to It because he had to. He especifically mentions In Rebirth the reason he stole the hubcaps of the supercar was due to opportunity and territory. Hubcaps are hubcaps and are money. To imply he wanted to show off you would have to prove whom he was trying showing off to.

His stones are just part of the character, just as his willingness to do what was right out on his own mind at the end, even In the New52 origin. Stopping people getting hurt because is going too far or saving his life got Bruce's notice on top of stones and fighting ability. His willingness to take risks, being adept at theft and street smarts is what made Ma Gunn take notice In him. His collective qualities for the good and bad have been noted by Talia, Ras and Ducra.

In the end, if Bruce hadn't been impressed he wouldnt have reveal himself to him. To suggest otherwise does a disservice to both characters.

[Aahz]

I respectfully disagree. Nobody steals hubcaps from THE BATMOBILE when they're desperate and trying to survive. That's just setting yourself up. for a world of trouble. There are plenty of other cars to steal hubcaps from that are not associated with the most powerful and intimidating vigilante in the city.

The thing is that the Batmobil was at this time just a tuned Sports-Car and Batman was far less intimidating.

[Aahz]

In THIS continuity. In-universe they handwaved that Steph told her what's been going on and she used that example as proof that the Knights were never really about building the team up, but it's pretty clear what the real point of that scene was. It was to establish that Babs has taken an interest in Cass's life, more than likely setting up what's next for Cass after she's out of 'Tec, and to a lesser extent, show the fans that he's been listening, her getting mad at Bruce over the same things Cass fans have been upset with .

It is still a little bit off imo that Barbara can give a detailed analysis of Bruce motives, without being directly involved in the whole thing, or in general having much interaction with the rest of the Batfamily.

But due to how unclear the canon is at the moment, it is anyway very hard to tell how well she even knows Bruce in the current continuity.

[Aioros22]

Just saw this on Tumblr and I just had to.

Bruce after hearing Jason and Barbara talk

[Aioros22]

Man I cannot wait for this run to be over. I cannot think of any writer who has written a main batman book who has as much dislike of bruce as tynion seems to. Throughout this entire run it has been bruce being chewed out by almost every member of the batfamily and getting embarrassed in fights he normally would win. What has always amazed me about the Batfamily is that for some reason there is an intense dislike of Bruce by so many fans of the batfamily characters. I don't really notice that with any other character, I mean from what I have seen Supergirl, Superboy, and Steel fans don't all hate on Clark all the time yet pretty much all fans of the batfamily characters love to trash bruce all the time. No matter what Bruce does, he loses with some people, if he killed he would be a murderer but if he doesn't kill they hold him responsible for that too. Any decision he makes gets twisted and manipulated by his sidekicks who basically exist at this point in the book to tell off "dad" despite the fact that most if not all of them couldn't function as heroes without Bruce's training, money equipment etc.. For a bunch of characters who would all basically be underfunded, untrained and flat out unable to function without the support of Bruce and his money, they certainly seem ungrateful self righteous hypocrites. If they dislike him so dang much, take of the Bat Symbol, return all the stuff you got with bruce's resources and try it on your own. I love characters like Grayson, Todd and Babs but all their interactions with him lately boil down to children throwing temper tantrums at "dad" and blaming him for everything that goes wrong. This is like the third arc in a row that has featured either villains or members of the batfamily basically being complete jerks to bruce and then acting like they never screw up. I mean really Barbara you go and throw Bruce's dead mother in his face in order to defend someone else committing murder. If Bruce ever pulled something like that it would immediately be used to make Bruce seem like a jerk but someone in the Batfamily does it and it's amazing. Hopefully detective is given to someone who actually likes Bruce as a character because the once every other issue trend of a batfamily character telling off Bruce is getting pretty tired.

The thing I liked and where I think Jason and Barbara agreed the most was that Bruce putting on a mock up Trial, and particularly without Cass or Kate being invited in, to be a silly decision on his part. Not that they shouldn`t be heard but Kate not being there borrows strenght to what they were saying, this isn`t really about her, it`s what he projects on Bruce.

Still did not like the Martha name drop.

[Nite-Wing]

Now I realize how Black Panther fans feel about Coates. This is a black mark in the history of Batman.

Coates makes everyone but T'challa awesome
Tynion makes everyone but Batman awesome

Its a bigger problem for Black Panther though

I'm pretty glad this book is changing almost every time you put any of these characters around Bruce for more than a brief moment of time some writers just can't resist using the opportunity to prop up their favorites using Bruce.

[Assam]

That small annoyance aside, this issue really had me wishing the core members of the family had their own series like the side members do. As much as I love Cass and Basil in this, I'd gladly give up this current team in favor of the main Batfam.

The fact that some people think that Cass isn't part of the core BatFam just serves as another example of how dirty DC's done her. I know most of you are long time readers; y'all should remember that before the Nu52, the line-up of Dick, Jason, Tim, Damian, Babs was NEVER the main crew.

[Blue22]

Lol Don't worry. Me wanting to see these guys together more often doesn't mean I don't remember the days when Steph and Cass used to be more than branch members of the family (I also remember the days when Steph was more than just a perpetual whining machine but that's a discussion for another day). I'm actually kinda hoping we get those days back eventually. At least for Cass.

[Godlike13]

Still did not like the Martha name drop.

Ya, i thought that theory was just dumb. Like really dumb.

[Barbatos666]

The fact that some people think that Cass isn't part of the core BatFam just serves as another example of how dirty DC's done her. I know most of you are long time readers; y'all should remember that before the Nu52, the line-up of Dick, Jason, Tim, Damian, Babs was NEVER the main crew.

Not Jason but the rest were lol.

[Assam]

Lol Don't worry. Me wanting to see these guys together more often doesn't mean I don't remember the days when Steph and Cass used to be more than branch members of the family (I also remember the days when Steph was more than just a perpetual whining machine but that's a discussion for another day). I'm actually kinda hoping we get those days back eventually. At least for Cass.

I have hope on Cass's end (we'll see if Tynion's last six issues and the June solicits make me regret that) but it seems quite a bit less promising on Steph's end due to multiple factors. Tynion's done a Hell of a number on her fanbase, turning people who were fans against her and making non-fans outright hate her. I wouldn't even put money on her being more popular than Kate these days. And as far as DC goes, whereas we know about at least a few different writers, artists and editors who are Cass fans, Steph as far as I'm aware only really has Tynion and possibly the Bensons. And then there's the fact that Cass was (and possibly will be again in a few months) Bruce's daughter; Steph just doesn't an an 'in' like that.

The one bright spot I see for her is that she was mentioned alongside Cass in the penultimate solicit for 'Tec so if this does lead into a Batgirls book or something, she'll likely at least be included.

Not Jason but the rest were lol.

You misunderstood. I didn't say that none of those members were part of the main crew, but that that specific grouping of characters was never the main crew. Pre-FP Dick, Damian, Tim and Babs were all core, but it was Cass and Steph rounding out the group, not Jason.

[Godlike13]

Not really Cass and Steph. When Steph became Batgirl Cass dissapeared and could hardly be called main or core anymore.