Detective Comics #975 preview

[K. Jones]

1) He says in the very first issue why he's recruiting them: because they're vigilantes in his city, and he'd intended to give them all at least a brief one-on-one partnership or mentorship. The Colony accelerated his plan and forced him to try to do it all at once to counter the mass threat that Jake's organization presented.

2) All of the traits you mention weren't really present in the kind of degree before Tim died.

3) I strongly, strongly disagree that she's nearly as bad as you're saying.

4) As I've argued, yes, the Victim Syndicate arc is designed to make Steph and Bruce have a similar relationship, but without Bruce being a jerk - but I don't think that means Steph being wrong makes her the kind of idiot you're claiming.



So true. But no one has brought up Damian's murders lately. I'm really curious how many of them are still in continuity - I'm assuming the Nobody murder is...but...

Damian's debute featured the murder of the Spook, and Otto Netz is a character in-continuity who has cropped up recently - dead - still causing trouble, so it should still be Damian who murdered him. In both of those cases lives were threatened, so Damian is not 100% the worst human ever. But he did it incredibly callously and bruskly and business-like, so, not great, either.

At present though, he's killed three people that we know of, and they were all super-villains threatening lives, so like ... I have to imagine that in spite of striving to be better, and to live up to the Batman Code, he's not going to be Anti-Kate here.

[millernumber1]

Damian's debute featured the murder of the Spook, and Otto Netz is a character in-continuity who has cropped up recently - dead - still causing trouble, so it should still be Damian who murdered him. In both of those cases lives were threatened, so Damian is not 100% the worst human ever. But he did it incredibly callously and bruskly and business-like, so, not great, either.

At present though, he's killed three people that we know of, and they were all super-villains threatening lives, so like ... I have to imagine that in spite of striving to be better, and to live up to the Batman Code, he's not going to be Anti-Kate here.

Other than being an incredible jerk about all of the other Batfamily...

[PurpleGlovez]

So true. But no one has brought up Damian's murders lately. I'm really curious how many of them are still in continuity - I'm assuming the Nobody murder is...but...

His two major kills in Morrison’s run are obviously still canon and both were referenced in the New 52.

[Frontier]

I think Damian is probably the last person to lecture someone on killing but I think he also has, Lazarus Contract aside, tried his absolute hardest to fight his urges to kill and live by the Batfamily code as Robin.

[Bat-Meal]

Not so. I honestly don't know how you can say that.

Elegy was about, and it was in one of Jacob's speeches, that if she was to become a vigilante it had to be about duty because the moment it became about revenge the cause would be lost. Batwoman was about protecting others, not about vengeance.

But this flashback implies she's always been a blood-thirsty little brat. And puts the focus more on her shooting Clayface than the reasoning of protecting Cassandra and the civilians. Her personality has been re-written and the old one retconned. Fine, it's storytelling, that happens.

[Caivu]

Elegy was about, and it was in one of Jacob's speeches, that if she was to become a vigilante it had to be about duty because the moment it became about revenge the cause would be lost. Batwoman was about protecting others, not about vengeance.

But this flashback implies she's always been a blood-thirsty little brat. And puts the focus more on her shooting Clayface than the reasoning of protecting Cassandra and the civilians. Her personality has been re-written and the old one retconned. Fine, it's storytelling, that happens.

It has not. First of all, this scene takes place way before Jacob ever told her that. Plus, she's 12 and her mom and sister were just killed; of course she's going to want revenge, it's a totally natural feeling.

Second of all, Kate still had some of that revenge mindset in Elegy:

Screenshot_20180226-214700.jpg

[Bat-Meal]

It has not. First of all, this scene takes place way before Jacob ever told her that. Plus, she's 12 and her mom and sister were just killed; of course she's going to want revenge, it's a totally natural feeling.

Second of all, Kate still had some of that revenge mindset in Elegy.

Which goes back to my point about the flashback not being directly relevant unless to make Kate to out to be a more vengeance driven character than previously depicted. Hence, there's nothing unnatural about a traumatised child dreaming of revenge, unless brought up as an important character component in the context of their adult-self having just killed someone, thus stating that she has been blood-thirty all along, or otherwise what is the point of this particular flashback.

[millernumber1]

Which goes back to my point about the flashback not being directly relevant unless to make Kate to out to be a more vengeance driven character than previously depicted. Hence, there's nothing unnatural about a traumatised child dreaming of revenge, unless brought up as an important character component in the context of their adult-self having just killed someone, thus stating that she has been blood-thirty all along, or otherwise what is the point of this particular flashback.

I really don't think that's the point of the flashback - I think it's just to highlight a relevant aspect of Kate's character and her relationship to Bruce. I don't think Tynion is at all trying to say that Kate is a revenge monster.

[nonsense man]

It will be hard to forgive but it will happen eventually maybe through damian and Jason because sometimes they kill even for the right reason like Kate she is family after all. Bruce and the others who truly adhere to the no kill policy might forgive eventually but not right now how long that will be in comic book time when a new writer takes over and handles this issue who knows

[Godlike13]

It won't be hard to forgive, Jason hunted people and Bruce treats that as water under the bridge. Quite frankly this whole story line is rather dumb in a world where Jason is an accepted part of the family. Honestly the fault here lies on Batman, and im not one to say easily that its Batman's fault, but Clayface should not have been on the team. Like seriously, lol. That blows up in their face and somehow its Batwoman who is on trial? That makes no sense. Not that Batwoman should give a crap if Batman forgives her.

[Aioros22]

"Water under the bridge", haha. We`re still pretending Jason hasn`t shown he`s willing to go the other way `round and that`s part of why Batman vouches him.

That said, I agree about the story lacking impact because of him. In a world where Jason is accepted despite all of them knowing he will do what the others won`t - if needed be, it seems a bit hollow to place Kate on Trial for a similar reason. Especially with Timbo going bananas on recent events giving the morality peep.

[CPSparkles]

Other than being an incredible jerk about all of the other Batfamily...

Always trolling huh

[CPSparkles]

It will be hard to forgive but it will happen eventually maybe through damian and Jason because sometimes they kill even for the right reason like Kate she is family after all. Bruce and the others who truly adhere to the no kill policy might forgive eventually but not right now how long that will be in comic book time when a new writer takes over and handles this issue who knows

Since Damian became a member of the family when has he done any killing that goes against Batman's code or are people here just gong off HC's.

[millernumber1]

Since Damian became a member of the family when has he done any killing that goes against Batman's code or are people here just gong off HC's.

Nobody and Netz were both after he became Robin.

[Assam]

"Water under the bridge", haha. We`re still pretending Jason hasn`t shown he`s willing to go the other way `round and that`s part of why Batman vouches him.

That said, I agree about the story lacking impact because of him. In a world where Jason is accepted despite all of them knowing he will do what the others won`t - if needed be, it seems a bit hollow to place Kate on Trial for a similar reason. Especially with Timbo going bananas on recent events giving the morality peep.

If there was consistency in this world, Tim would be up on the satellite under house arrest with Donna Troy, along with Jon Kent and probably some others I'm forgetting. DC has long reached a point where no one really gives a f**k and they'll tell the stories they want to tell, no matter how little sense it makes it the larger context.