Do you really feel that Emma became an iconic member of the x-men?

[Wind Rider]

I think she is popular and has been an important x-character, but I don’t think she is iconic.

[sungila]

Way back in 2009 Grant Morrison was finishing his run on the New X-Men and gave an interview with CBR in which he briefly summed up his view on the main characters from the series.

“Emma Frost – sexy, devious, villain-turned-hero, the ultimate self-made woman"

IMO it's important to stay here a moment before discussing Emma in relation to another character. She herself is a telepath with a unique burden, she loses her power at one point in Bendis' run and is stricken by the isolation of not peeking in, not being intimately connected, not knowing, not being over-whelmed by the many interiors of others - she is, openly, not cool with this 'everyday' isolation of being with one's self.

With all the outward displays of diamond skin and diamond intent and layer upon layer of glossy or lacy exteriors Emma is, at core, a protector of an utterly vulnerable self and a human hero. Perhaps the impulse is to be on the offense, but she's there in Genosha post-Cassandra Nova apocalypse holding the body of a student, asking her to be healed and doesn't accept death as a good enough excuse not to help her. The student is 'self-named' and Emma makes sure this is known.

This is Emma's entrance into the X-Men. This is where her secondary diamond skin mutation manifests.

For me the 'hate and fear' doesn't just lurk outside the security of being an X-Woman, it's not outside the team, not outside the family, not even outside the individual. This fight against that fear and hate demands individuals who will not accept the unacceptable no matter what this reality demands.

Not death. Not resurrection.

I love when Bobby is humanly conflicted and angry. I love when anybody challenges the potentially and often rigid-idealogies of Cyclops, Wolverine or Storm, not just for the sake of a fight or to be contrary but for the sake of the kids, the coming generation and maybe even herself.

Maybe Emma is obsessed with power and control. Maybe? If so, more power to her!

And that power has always come with grave responsibility for Emma.

YES. Emma Frost deserves her place in the X-Men. Yes she is iconic.

In fact, Emma often marks a point for me when the whole idea of code names in the X-Men seems outdated and somehow a strained old habit.

It's something leaders encourage the others to use 'in battle' or 'on missions' and/or 'in-training'

This is an important moment for Emma, for the X-Men, and for me as a long-time fan

deadpool-who-is-negasonic-teenage-warhead-and-the-actress-who-portrays-her-774771.jpg

I appreciate and can understand the desire to compare and dual Emma vs Jean. But to me, it's just not that simple, or even like that at all.

Morrison said of Jean:
"Jean Grey – tries so hard to be good she sometimes forgets to be human."

Same can be said for those that try to be so bad right?
Same can be said for a kid trying to be a chosen name.



to try TO BE HUMAN

[Sutekh]

Emma definitely added something new and cool to the X-Men, although I'm not entirely sure if I'd call her an 'iconic X-Man.' That said, I'm not sure I'd consider Warren, Hank or Bobby all that 'iconic...' since they've crossed streams as Avengers and / or Defenders / and / or Champions, as well, and aren't all that strongly defined by their X-Men status as Jean or Scott.

But Kitty was definitely *not* the last great addition, because that would exclude Rogue, and that's just unpossible.

[Jokerz79]

I think Emma as a character is iconic but Emma as an X-Man no simply because IMO I never saw her as an X-Man but more of a person attaching them self for their own agenda to the team and was using them to achieve their own goals and never truly believed in Xavier's dream.

[Ulfhammer]

Way back in 2009 Grant Morrison was finishing his run on the New X-Men and gave an interview with CBR in which he briefly summed up his view on the main characters from the series.

“Emma Frost – sexy, devious, villain-turned-hero, the ultimate self-made woman"

IMO it's important to stay here a moment before discussing Emma in relation to another character. She herself is a telepath with a unique burden, she loses her power at one point in Bendis' run and is stricken by the isolation of not peeking in, not being intimately connected, not knowing, not being over-whelmed by the many interiors of others - she is, openly, not cool with this 'everyday' isolation of being with one's self.

With all the outward displays of diamond skin and diamond intent and layer upon layer of glossy or lacy exteriors Emma is, at core, a protector of an utterly vulnerable self and a human hero. Perhaps the impulse is to be on the offense, but she's there in Genosha post-Cassandra Nova apocalypse holding the body of a student, asking her to be healed and doesn't accept death as a good enough excuse not to help her. The student is 'self-named' and Emma makes sure this is known.

This is Emma's entrance into the X-Men. This is where her secondary diamond skin mutation manifests.

For me the 'hate and fear' doesn't just lurk outside the security of being an X-Woman, it's not outside the team, not outside the family, not even outside the individual. This fight against that fear and hate demands individuals who will not accept the unacceptable no matter what this reality demands.

Not death. Not resurrection.

I love when Bobby is humanly conflicted and angry. I love when anybody challenges the potentially and often rigid-idealogies of Cyclops, Wolverine or Storm, not just for the sake of a fight or to be contrary but for the sake of the kids, the coming generation and maybe even herself.

Maybe Emma is obsessed with power and control. Maybe? If so, more power to her!

And that power has always come with grave responsibility for Emma.

YES. Emma Frost deserves her place in the X-Men. Yes she is iconic.

In fact, Emma often marks a point for me when the whole idea of code names in the X-Men seems outdated and somehow a strained old habit.

It's something leaders encourage the others to use 'in battle' or 'on missions' and/or 'in-training'

This is an important moment for Emma, for the X-Men, and for me as a long-time fan

deadpool-who-is-negasonic-teenage-warhead-and-the-actress-who-portrays-her-774771.jpg

I appreciate and can understand the desire to compare and dual Emma vs Jean. But to me, it's just not that simple, or even like that at all.

Morrison said of Jean:
"Jean Grey – tries so hard to be good she sometimes forgets to be human."

Same can be said for those that try to be so bad right?
Same can be said for a kid trying to be a chosen name.



to try TO BE HUMAN

Wow. Really well said. If I can add anything to this, more by means of clarification I suppose, it always seemed to me that Emma fights the hardest for the most vulnerable. She has a checkered past in this regards, but considering NXM onwards she's been verily consistant. She rarely, if ever, defends herself or those she views as being able to defend themselves, but in the case of mutants who can't, Emma's a formidable ally. She's also made it a point to try to develop those mutants into a state where they can defend themselves. Yes, her methods can often seem cruel but her goals are clear in this regard. The outcome of those efforts unfortunately has not been stellar, but that's been true of Charles and Scott as well.

Her duality as a morally grey hero with a penchant for expedient solutions actually align with a number of other X-Men including Logan, Namor and Cable ironically so I think her desire to protect and teach mutants is a key differentiator.

[Ulfhammer]

I think Emma as a character is iconic but Emma as an X-Man no simply because IMO I never saw her as an X-Man but more of a person attaching them self for their own agenda to the team and was using them to achieve their own goals and never truly believed in Xavier's dream.

I find Emma's goals align verily well with those of the X-Men, at least in the post M-Day status quo. If anything, it's her methods that fall outside the expected range, but frankly that range has been pretty wide for a long time now.

I'm not sure Charles dream has been the driving force behind the X-Men is a long time.

[Havok83]

Thanks to various retcons, Xavier was revealed to be a hypocrite who's dream was built on several lies. The X-men really shouldnt be trying to "live" for his dream but forge their own with the way the world and mutantkind is today. Emma exemplified that latter statement when she was last an X-man and it made far more sense than an outdated ideology of some man that was shady and hid his immoral and questionable tactics. The dream needs to evolve and thats why I like where Jean is currently coming at it.

[Lukmendes]

That's because she became elevated within the comics right after the XMen's heyday in broader media passed really. But she WAS in the two most recent animated adoptions though AND she was in a film (admittedly as a villain). Also her clones are currently in an ongoing TV show.. I think that is a good route to elevate her stature somewhat

Yeah that's why I mentioned "doesn't do much outside of comics", she did show up in other stuff, but is kinda just there if I remember correctly, though I do hear that the Cuckos are among the most popular characters in The Gifted, so that can help to promote her, and hopefuly end this **** villain crap.

[darkalamator]

Yes indeed. Oh wait this is just another Emmaphobic JG fan thread.

[yogaflame]

Well, the fact that her last big X-Men story was her killing dirigibles full of Inhumans after altering the perceptions of many of the MU's greatest characters into fighting a pitched war might weaken her iconic X-Men status a little bit. Then factor in her role in corrupting the Phoenix, blowing up an ice cream shop, raping Storm, killing a horse to manipulate a child, and having at least three generations of students die en mass under her supervision, it gets to be a bit shaky. Her X-Men status was largely a result of her affair, and after she shared a cannibalistic dinner with Scott just before he choked the Phoenix out of her and killed Charles, she's largely been on the peripheral....

She's 'iconic' to a very specific generation of X-fans, but in the grand scheme of things.... she's more a villain.

[Tazirai]

Yes. She was the last great addition to the X-Men in my mind.

Agreed.

To me she was what Psylocke was on her way to becoming before she got "de-railed" in my opinion.
Emma became the "Psylocke" of the X-men. Betsy just keeps getting shafted lol.

[butterflykyss]

Well, the fact that her last big X-Men story was her killing dirigibles full of Inhumans after altering the perceptions of many of the MU's greatest characters into fighting a pitched war might weaken her iconic X-Men status a little bit. Then factor in her role in corrupting the Phoenix, blowing up an ice cream shop, raping Storm, killing a horse to manipulate a child, and having at least three generations of students die en mass under her supervision, it gets to be a bit shaky. Her X-Men status was largely a result of her affair, and after she shared a cannibalistic dinner with Scott just before he choked the Phoenix out of her and killed Charles, she's largely been on the peripheral....

She's 'iconic' to a very specific generation of X-fans, but in the grand scheme of things.... she's more a villain.

Preach and tell it like it is!!

[Ulfhammer]

Yes indeed. Oh wait this is just another Emmaphobic JG fan thread.

I disagree. The majority would seem to think she was iconic and are arguing the point rather vigorously. That's something I don't see many of you frosties doing much of frankly. Maybe you're burned out from the last few threads that were legitimately "anti-Emma"?

[Ulfhammer]

Agreed.

To me she was what Psylocke was on her way to becoming before she got "de-railed" in my opinion.
Emma became the "Psylocke" of the X-men. Betsy just keeps getting shafted lol.

I think Betsy wishes she'd keep getting "shafted" but Emma kind of stole her thunder on that too I suppose. Iconic and ironic.

[ExodusCloak]

I disagree. The majority would seem to think she was iconic and are arguing the point rather vigorously. That's something I don't see many of you frosties doing much of frankly. Maybe you're burned out from the last few threads that were legitimately "anti-Emma"?

Why would anyone need to argue such a silly question vigorously? Its like asking if Xavier is really bald or does he make people think he's bald. Of course she's an iconic X-Men Civil War, the Cabal. Namor is an X-Men because of Emma. The New X-Men are her students. The Frost Legacy lives on. Emma facilitated the X-Men into a comic book audience that is more cynical and jaded.



And if people are judging iconic by the greater public audience then J-law is the most iconic X-woman.

Jeans death is iconic not so much the character

And Storms and Rogues hair is iconic
That's if we are using the wide audience as a standard.

I think people forgot Ellen Page was even in the movies or just drowned out those parts

It's very easy to overestimate the X-Men iconography I'd wager minions are more iconic then some characters I listed there