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  1. #16
    Extraordinary Member MichaelC's Avatar
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    Eh, they go back and forth on that, some times calling a super-solder, and sometimes just peak human. The movies have him as blatantly superhuman, and the books tend to follow the movies theses days. Has he been referred to as just peak human in a book recently?

  2. #17
    Astonishing Member DragonsChi's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by JasonEsta View Post
    Street characters. Daredevik, Spider Man, Venom, Bullseye, Lizard, Shang Chi, Black Widow, Punisher, Kingpin...Cap can't fight the top threats believably like a Juggernaut or Exodus. So the street level.
    This is false.

    Street level at marvel comics has always refered to the type of crime the heroes are drawn too more often than not.

    Ergo mobs, gangsters, villians more concerned with making a buck then taking over the world equal street level.

    Captain America isn’t even street level since he is the defacto leader of the Avengers and constantly enages in battles with terrorist.

    What the Op is really intending to ask is what Low to Mid Teir power level hero can win agains Captain America in a fight. But due to common misconception he reffered to a power level classification to a story/character term.
    Last edited by DragonsChi; 02-27-2018 at 07:54 AM.
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  3. #18
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    Didn't Kingpin once fight Cap to pretty much a draw?

  4. #19
    Astonishing Member DragonsChi's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Punisher007 View Post
    Didn't Kingpin once fight Cap to pretty much a draw?
    Exactly, this is why “Street Level” has never been referred to power level inside Marvel comics. It’s a term refered to by the type of crime.

    Cap is a what would be classified as a Mid Tier hero due to his “powers” ,weapon, and tactical genius. He is they type of character who could fit in a story against Kingpin just as easily as he could face off against someone like Loki.

    Spiderman, Iron Fist, and Luke Cage are all Mid Tier power level characters who would still be classified as Street Level characters, for example.
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  5. #20
    Helping the Helpless Denirac's Avatar
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    Daredevil
    Frank Castle
    Jessica Jones
    Luke Cage
    Iron Fist
    Moon Knight
    Deadpool
    Old Man Logan (I dont could Younger Man Logan as Street Level)
    Blade
    Ghost Rider

  6. #21
    Wily Veteran cc008's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SpiderClops View Post
    A lot actually.

    Daredevil
    Shang Chi
    Iron Fist
    Luke Cage
    Jessica Jones
    Bullseye
    Electra
    Kingpin
    Deadpool
    Taskmaster
    Yeah, street heroes don't get as much credit as they deserve, skills wise. The two bolded I am 100% confident could take Cap in a fight. But I don't really disagree with the list as a whole.

    + Castle

  7. #22
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    This is a really tricky question, and depends heavily on what you mean by "beat" and "straight up fight." I'm going to assume by "beaten" we mean "temporarily disabled or demoralize to the point where conflict ends," and not "kill forever, with no possibility of reprisal." And by "straight up fight," I'm going to assume we mean a street fight in which both heroes enter the battlefield from the one end of one city block, and battle each other on the actual street. Thus cars, pedestrians, streetlamps, etc. are all possibilities. Given those understandings, I'd give the following characters the following odds of defeating Cap in a fight:

    Character Odds Notes
    Iron Fist 1:1 Outmatches Captain America in HTH fighting skills. Shield nullifies "Iron Fist" power.
    Shang Chi 2:1 Outmatches Captain America in HTH fighting skills. Lacks superhuman endurance and strength.
    Daredevil 2:1 Effectively matched in HTH skill, DD's superhuman senses aren't a match for Cap's superhuman strength and endurance.
    Wolverine 4:1 Outmatched in fighting skill and strength. Wolverine is a berserker, exactly the sort of foe Cap excels against.
    Spider-Man 5:1 Outmatched in fighting skill, easily demoralized. Experience will win out here.
    Deadpool 8:1 Basically Wolverine without the willpower to stay in the fight. Will fold like a cheap suit.
    Luke Cage 8:1 Vulnerable to pressure point attacks, poor HTH skills (overrelies on raw power).
    Punisher 10:1 Hopelessly outclassed.

    So I give Iron Fist the best chance at taking down Captain America, but really these are all heavily weighted towards Cap because whie Cap might be "street level" himself, he's used to punching way, way above his weight class and dealing with foes that are far more powerful than he is. Matched against other street fighters, Cap's superior tactics, mastery of all combat styles, vast experience, and peak-human capabilities are going to wipe the floor with a lot of these guys.

    And yes, yes, I know, Cap can't ultimately defeat Wolverine or Deadpool due to their healing factors, but again, this isn't a battle to the death, it's a street fight, and while neither of them can die, they're both more than capable of having their bell rung hard enough for Cap to claim victory.

  8. #23
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    Lol, I'm tempted to say Batman with prep time, but I don't want to derail the thread!

  9. #24
    Peter Scott SpiderClops's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by AmazingSpiderFan View Post
    This is a really tricky question, and depends heavily on what you mean by "beat" and "straight up fight." I'm going to assume by "beaten" we mean "temporarily disabled or demoralize to the point where conflict ends," and not "kill forever, with no possibility of reprisal." And by "straight up fight," I'm going to assume we mean a street fight in which both heroes enter the battlefield from the one end of one city block, and battle each other on the actual street. Thus cars, pedestrians, streetlamps, etc. are all possibilities. Given those understandings, I'd give the following characters the following odds of defeating Cap in a fight:

    Character Odds Notes
    Iron Fist 1:1 Outmatches Captain America in HTH fighting skills. Shield nullifies "Iron Fist" power.
    Shang Chi 2:1 Outmatches Captain America in HTH fighting skills. Lacks superhuman endurance and strength.
    Daredevil 2:1 Effectively matched in HTH skill, DD's superhuman senses aren't a match for Cap's superhuman strength and endurance.
    Wolverine 4:1 Outmatched in fighting skill and strength. Wolverine is a berserker, exactly the sort of foe Cap excels against.
    Spider-Man 5:1 Outmatched in fighting skill, easily demoralized. Experience will win out here.
    Deadpool 8:1 Basically Wolverine without the willpower to stay in the fight. Will fold like a cheap suit.
    Luke Cage 8:1 Vulnerable to pressure point attacks, poor HTH skills (overrelies on raw power).
    Punisher 10:1 Hopelessly outclassed.

    So I give Iron Fist the best chance at taking down Captain America, but really these are all heavily weighted towards Cap because whie Cap might be "street level" himself, he's used to punching way, way above his weight class and dealing with foes that are far more powerful than he is. Matched against other street fighters, Cap's superior tactics, mastery of all combat styles, vast experience, and peak-human capabilities are going to wipe the floor with a lot of these guys.

    And yes, yes, I know, Cap can't ultimately defeat Wolverine or Deadpool due to their healing factors, but again, this isn't a battle to the death, it's a street fight, and while neither of them can die, they're both more than capable of having their bell rung hard enough for Cap to claim victory.
    Pretty much everything you said is wrong.
    Quote Originally Posted by stingray View Post
    Lol, I'm tempted to say Batman with prep time, but I don't want to derail the thread!
    He wouldn't actually need prep time to beat Cap. It's a very very close fight, but he can do it.(I don't even like Batman that much btw)

  10. #25
    Wily Veteran cc008's Avatar
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    I'll take those Deadpool odds if I were a betting man. When he's serious about what he's doing, he's a master tactician in his own right, and he's unpredictable. When he gets to be this way, he's dangerous and scary.

  11. #26

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    Quote Originally Posted by AmazingSpiderFan View Post
    This is a really tricky question, and depends heavily on what you mean by "beat" and "straight up fight." I'm going to assume by "beaten" we mean "temporarily disabled or demoralize to the point where conflict ends," and not "kill forever, with no possibility of reprisal." And by "straight up fight," I'm going to assume we mean a street fight in which both heroes enter the battlefield from the one end of one city block, and battle each other on the actual street. Thus cars, pedestrians, streetlamps, etc. are all possibilities. Given those understandings, I'd give the following characters the following odds of defeating Cap in a fight:

    Character Odds Notes
    Iron Fist 1:1 Outmatches Captain America in HTH fighting skills. Shield nullifies "Iron Fist" power.
    Shang Chi 2:1 Outmatches Captain America in HTH fighting skills. Lacks superhuman endurance and strength.
    Daredevil 2:1 Effectively matched in HTH skill, DD's superhuman senses aren't a match for Cap's superhuman strength and endurance.
    Wolverine 4:1 Outmatched in fighting skill and strength. Wolverine is a berserker, exactly the sort of foe Cap excels against.
    Spider-Man 5:1 Outmatched in fighting skill, easily demoralized. Experience will win out here.
    Deadpool 8:1 Basically Wolverine without the willpower to stay in the fight. Will fold like a cheap suit.
    Luke Cage 8:1 Vulnerable to pressure point attacks, poor HTH skills (overrelies on raw power).
    Punisher 10:1 Hopelessly outclassed.

    So I give Iron Fist the best chance at taking down Captain America, but really these are all heavily weighted towards Cap because whie Cap might be "street level" himself, he's used to punching way, way above his weight class and dealing with foes that are far more powerful than he is. Matched against other street fighters, Cap's superior tactics, mastery of all combat styles, vast experience, and peak-human capabilities are going to wipe the floor with a lot of these guys.

    And yes, yes, I know, Cap can't ultimately defeat Wolverine or Deadpool due to their healing factors, but again, this isn't a battle to the death, it's a street fight, and while neither of them can die, they're both more than capable of having their bell rung hard enough for Cap to claim victory.
    Except Cap has never beaten Wolverine ever. The only time he has stopped Logan was during the conclusion of that Enemy of the State story and that was after an exhausted Logan was getting tagged by the X-Men and Cap snuck up behind with a shield attack. Counting that as a victory would be like counting every sucker punch in history that has ever ko'd someone a victory. Other than that, Wolverine has gotten the better of Cap in every encounter they had(that I can recall). Logan gave him a blood hemorrhage in his leg in one fight, Cap couldn't stand and Logan was on the verge of going berserk. Logan pretty much had him dead to rights in their fight during AvX until Hank Pym saved Cap. In a one on one situation, Wolverine just outclasses Cap in every way.

  12. #27
    BANNED AmazingSpiderFan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SpiderClops View Post
    Pretty much everything you said is wrong.
    Compelling argument. My rebuttal: Nuh uh.

    Quote Originally Posted by Sin Nick View Post
    Except Cap has never beaten Wolverine ever. The only time he has stopped Logan was during the conclusion of that Enemy of the State story and that was after an exhausted Logan was getting tagged by the X-Men and Cap snuck up behind with a shield attack. Counting that as a victory would be like counting every sucker punch in history that has ever ko'd someone a victory. Other than that, Wolverine has gotten the better of Cap in every encounter they had(that I can recall). Logan gave him a blood hemorrhage in his leg in one fight, Cap couldn't stand and Logan was on the verge of going berserk. Logan pretty much had him dead to rights in their fight during AvX until Hank Pym saved Cap. In a one on one situation, Wolverine just outclasses Cap in every way.
    You are completely misremembering that fight. Here, go read it again. Hank didn't "save" Cap, Cap was still entirely in that fight. Logan never had him "dead to rights."

  13. #28

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    Quote Originally Posted by AmazingSpiderFan View Post
    Compelling argument. My rebuttal: Nuh uh.



    You are completely misremembering that fight. Here, go read it again. Hank didn't "save" Cap, Cap was still entirely in that fight. Logan never had him "dead to rights."
    I'm not, Cap was in bad shape on the next page(needed Hank to lean on just to walk). Though superhero bravado, claimed he was just winded. Even still, had that fight continue, he was in no shape to contend with Logan, who was just kicked some hundreds of feet out of the plane was just fine.

  14. #29
    Jesus Christ, redeemer! The Whovian's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SpiderClops View Post
    A lot actually.

    Daredevil
    Shang Chi
    Iron Fist
    Luke Cage
    Jessica Jones
    Bullseye
    Electra
    Kingpin
    Deadpool
    Taskmaster

    Just the top of my head
    To me, characters like Cage and Jessica should not be considered in this question because while they are street level characters, they have super strength on par with Spider-Man. A better question would be 'What martial artist could beat Captain America?'
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  15. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by DragonsChi View Post
    This is false.

    Street level at marvel comics has always refered to the type of crime the heroes are drawn too more often than not.

    Ergo mobs, gangsters, villians more concerned with making a buck then taking over the world equal street level.

    Captain America isn’t even street level since he is the defacto leader of the Avengers and constantly enages in battles with terrorist.

    What the Op is really intending to ask is what Low to Mid Teir power level hero can win agains Captain America in a fight. But due to common misconception he reffered to a power level classification to a story/character term.
    Nah..Cap is not messing with Sinister, Apocalypse, Magneto, or Doom in his solo. He's on the Avengers team backed up by heavy hitters,like Strange, Thor, and Iron Man. They never have Cap stop Ultron or Juggernaut...not gonna happen.
    Last edited by JasonEsta; 02-27-2018 at 11:40 AM.

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