What street character can beat Captain America in a straight up fight?

[SpiderClops]

With the shield? Tough call. Without the shield? Quite a few, including some like Shang Chi repeatedly, even though he is not an enhanced human being or artificially bolstered to the "peak level of human capacity", whatever that means.

Shag Chi, Daredevil, Iron Fist, Electra are actually above "peak human", through shear training('tis comics, man). Yes, they are above Cap, BP and Wolvie.

[Zero Hunter]

Well then,

Daredevil
Electra
Shang Chi
Iron Fist(even without the Iron Fist)
Deadpool
Mantis(I don't think she has any physical powers?)

would definitely beat Cap.

You keep saying Daredevil but one on one Cap is going to beat him every time. Sure Daredevil has some ninja training, but Matt doesn't work our and train every day. Cap does and that gives him the edge.

[SpiderClops]

You keep saying Daredevil but one on one Cap is going to beat him every time. Sure Daredevil has some ninja training, but Matt doesn't work our and train every day. Cap does and that gives him the edge.

You sure about that? Anyway, here's some instances of Matt just casually deflecting bullets:
https://imgur.com/a/yS4Wm

And some weightlifting:

[DragonsChi]

I agree with Zero Hunter. Matt has always been a high Low Tier character and as far as I can remember has never been able to beat Steve in a straight fight.

Same with Shang Chi.

[SpiderClops]

I agree with Zero Hunter. Matt has always been a high Low Tier character and as far as I can remember has never been able to beat Steve in a straight fight.

Same with Shang Chi.

And this is why I said this should've been posted on Rumbles forum.

Also, Fantomex. Fantomex would beat Cap.

[pageturner]

Can is a wide berth

Iron Fist
Daredevil
Falcon
Hawkeye (clint)
Bucky
Black Widow
Moonknight
Shang Chi
Electra

Steve is not invulnerable just experienced. If the opening presented itself any of these and a few more could get in a winning shot(s)

[DragonsChi]

If were just judging by who could potentally beat Cap them every hero in the Marvel universe shouls be on that list.

Think should be who could beat Cap or at least Tie with Cap in most instances.

[KingsLeadHat]

I'd limit it to non-powered heroes since that's the most interesting scenario.

I'd say that Shang-Chi and Iron Fist (not using the Iron Fist) are at the top of the list, they could win a few contest, but more times than not Cap would win. More importantly, I don't think any writer would have Cap losing a fair fight to a non-powered hero or villain given his reputation an importance.

[KingsLeadHat]

Shag Chi, Daredevil, Iron Fist, Electra are actually above "peak human", through shear training('tis comics, man). Yes, they are above Cap, BP and Wolvie.

I'm baffled by this statement. None of those that you listed are physically equal to or superior to Cap, Black Panther or Wolverine. Two are enhanced to the point of physical perfection and one is a mutant. What you stated has no precedent in any thing published by Marvel, from the original handbooks to the modern comics.

Now if you're arguing that Shag Chi, skill for skill, is superior to Cap, I wouldn't have a problem with that, but none on your list are as fast or as strong as Cap. I'm thinking if they tested their abilities at a modern sports facility as an example.

[Coin Biter]

Captain America has always been a tricky character, re power levels, even for a Marvel superhero.

He was supposed to be at the peak of human physical ability in every area, but back in the day, that didn't necessarily mean he was stronger or more durable than Kingpin (perhaps on account of Kingpin's greater size), or more agile than Batroc. In his solo title he could struggle against unenhanced humans who were simply really good fighters, while tangling with technically more powerful superheroes in the Avengers. Presumably on those occasions he was empowered by the invincible power of patriotism.

However, like many a popular character, his power has crept up over the years. I can't see him losing to, say, Kingpin now, although he was defeated by him in the past (granted, Kingpin was a spectacularly formidable opponent up until the 90s, but I think this statement would apply to most technically powerless characters). Ah well. The pharmaceutically enhanced emblem of virtue is nowadays apparently to be considered a tactical genius as well, and his trite homilies brilliant motivational speeches.

Such is the nature of superhero comics.

In short, his secret power of being one of Marvel's poster characters should him to defeat most skilled characters without powers, a lot of skilled characters with minor powers, and occasionally (doubtless to their mortification and inner shame) characters with quite formidable powers. I'd balk at him beating anyone like Wolverine or Taskmaster or god help us, Spiderman, but sadly my anti-Cap sentiments are not shared by Marvel's writers

[SpiderClops]

I'm baffled by this statement. None of those that you listed are physically equal to or superior to Cap, Black Panther or Wolverine. Two are enhanced to the point of physical perfection and one is a mutant. What you stated has no precedent in any thing published by Marvel, from the original handbooks to the modern comics.

Now if you're arguing that Shag Chi, skill for skill, is superior to Cap, I wouldn't have a problem with that, but none on your list are as fast or as strong as Cap. I'm thinking if they tested their abilities at a modern sports facility as an example.

Daredevil, Shag Chi and Iron Fist have shown to be able to dodge/deflect bullets after they're fired. Not in some single random instance or anything, those guys have done that consistently. Search the web. Or look at those scans I posted above.

Yes, those guys really are above Cap, BP and Wolvie. Comfortably so.

[KingsLeadHat]

Daredevil, Shag Chi and Iron Fist have shown to be able to dodge/deflect bullets after they're fired. Not in some single random instance or anything, those guys have done that consistently. Search the web. Or look at those scans I posted above.

Yes, those guys really are above Cap, BP and Wolvie. Comfortably so.

The bad writing and characterization aside, you do realize that this only means that Cap, Panther and Wolverine should be able to do the same, only easier? Maybe not Wolverine, since he's never really been an acrobat. Batman "dodges bullets" all the time simply by jumping out of the way at the right time. It's an old staple of comics, sure, but most feel Cap has the physical edge on Batman. Are you counting those moments?

[SpiderClops]

The bad writing and characterization aside, you do realize that this only means that Cap, Panther and Wolverine should be able to do the same, only easier? Maybe not Wolverine, since he's never really been an acrobat. Batman "dodges bullets" all the time simply by jumping out of the way at the right time. It's an old staple of comics, sure, but most feel Cap has the physical edge on Batman. Are you counting those moments?

That's why I specifically mentioned they can dodge bullets after they're fired. Something like this:


Doesn't matter what Cap, BP and Wolvie should or shouldn't be able to do. What matters is that they don't do it, not on consistent and crystal clear basis like the guys I keep mentioning.

And please, don't tell me what bad writing is. Cap and Wolvie are the poster children for bad writing when it comes to fights, just like Batman.

[KingsLeadHat]

My point is that literally every street-level vigilante can "doge bullets" given that example. It's something that dates back to The Shadow.

Not to degenerate this down to battle-board debate level, but I'm curious. This is really all I want to know. Do you feel that Daredevil (as one of your examples) could beat Cap in the 40 yard dash, agility drills or maximum bench press? My whole argument is that Cap is physically superior in terms of speed, endurance and strength, as that's kind of his thing outside of the enhanced or superhuman realm.

[SpiderClops]

My point is that literally every street-level vigilante can "doge bullets" given that example. It's something that dates back to The Shadow.

Except that what you're describing and what I'm showing is quite different. You're talking about the usual "action genre heroes don't get hit by bullets", but barely any of them show dodging bullets like I just showed in the above scan.

but I'm curious. This is really all I want to know. Do you feel that Daredevil (as one of your examples) could beat Cap in the 40 yard dash, agility drills or maximum bench press? My whole argument is that Cap is physically superior in terms of speed, endurance and strength, as that's kind of his thing outside of the enhanced or superhuman realm.

Yes. Yes, he would. Shang Chi and Iron Fist would win even more easily. Cap is just the peak human(or what comic book writers think what peak human is). BP reaches that level without any drugs or anything(heart shaped herb makes him above that). And the guys I keep mentioning achieve the level above that, just through training.

Sorry, Marvel or DC don't care what normal humans should realistically achieve through training.

Not to degenerate this down to battle-board debate level,

I will agree to this and stop now.