Page 1 of 3 123 LastLast
Results 1 to 15 of 40
  1. #1
    Extraordinary Member
    Join Date
    May 2014
    Posts
    6,522

    Default For all of his leadership skills, WHY didn't Cyclops reach out to others ?

    I know the X-men see a leader, but for all of his grump, Cyclops is still just a man. Which begs this question I once had: Why didn't Cyclops reach out to other X-men and showcased that he can't deal with this and he wants to ask for better solutions.

    I mean Cyclops wasn't closed up on his feelings, then maybe the X-men wouldn't have split as they did.

    Those that wear the crown of leadership suffers a heavy burden. So that begs the question: WHY didn't Cyclops at least try to explain himself BEFORE and not afterwards.

    IN other words: Was there anyway for the X-men not to split if there was from Cyclops and his ways ?

    Was there anyway to keep them safe, not lose their family aspect and still remain protectors of humans and mutants ?
    Last edited by Cmbmool; 02-27-2018 at 07:23 AM.

  2. #2
    Ultimate Member Havok83's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2014
    Posts
    12,623

    Default

    Did you not read Gillen’s UXM run?

  3. #3
    BANNED
    Join Date
    May 2014
    Location
    Inside Storm's heart
    Posts
    27,269

    Default

    I think he did to Ororo Munroe aka Storm.

  4. #4
    Extraordinary Member
    Join Date
    May 2014
    Posts
    6,522

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by RLAAMJR. View Post
    I think he did to Ororo Munroe aka Storm.
    It felt more like a last desperate plea to stay to me.

    Also given Ororo status at the time, one could have wonder why didn't Cyclops tried to ask more of Ororo and stand for Mutants in Wakanda given Storm's position at the time ?

  5. #5
    Extraordinary Member
    Join Date
    May 2014
    Posts
    6,522

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Havok83 View Post
    Did you not read Gillen’s UXM run?
    He was tired and tried to work with them, but did he offer anything to change things and heal the rift ?

  6. #6
    Mighty Member akiresu_'s Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2016
    Posts
    1,095

    Default

    Bc that'd be really quite boring imo. The appeal of Cyclops is that he has this perception of himself, that he has to at least present as having it all together else everything will all crumble down. It's what makes him an exciting, flawed hero. His story (from that era) is a tragedy; his hubris leads him to ruin and you're sympathetic throughout.

    Cyclops is closed up, struggles to process things and deal with emotions, it's one of the things that makes him compelling (unlike other superhero leaders who are just perfect and stagnant) to read.

    I think there are cases where he did attempt what you're saying he didn't (as other posters have contributed), but the core of it is that Utopia lived and died on the capabilities of one man elevated above his position. It's a dual crisis, Wolverine should have taken the democracy offer instead of allowing the split, but that too is driven by the character's arrogance and incapability to acknowledge fault (I still believe the split should have been Scott/Ororo- with Logan begrudgingly picking Scott's side- that just makes much more sense and would have been a more exciting outcome for me).

    I think letting the Schism heal mostly off-panel was one of the big casualties of that damned post-Secret Wars time-skip. There was slow progress to bringing everyone together again, but the resolution needed more than what #600 delivered.

  7. #7
    Astonishing Member Knives's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2014
    Posts
    4,492

    Default

    This again...


    From what remember he asked Storm for help and more than once he heard the advice and complaints of Xavier, Logan, Magneto, Emma and Rogue.

    What you need to understand are the circumstances when there were only 200 live mutants and the extinction was almost certain a split leadership was not the ideal because it would leave them open for threats. Democracy is good in times of peace but in times of war with threats coming from all sides you need to react fast and with force.

    You may even consult and ask for advice but a leader should make the final decision and take the consequences for it. A division in leadership would delay the response and create a division in leadership by creating internal conflicts that would be exploited by enemies. That's why Cyclops asked Xavier to stay away because Xavier had low credibility for his mistakes and would not be willing to do what was necessary to ensure the survival of the mutants.

    You may not agree with him but given the circumstances there was no other way. Despite Beast's protests he defeated the Skrulls without putting any mutant's life in danger, stopped Osborn and Juggernaut (Fear Itself) and even when Wolverine accused him of going crazy for allowing Idie to fight when he ignored Cyclops's orders, it saved the lives of Emma, Namor and others.Leaders are ordinary people who make mistakes like any other but leaders can not show themselves weak or undecided before their soldiers or those who depend on him this is a fatal error. When Wolverine decided to form his own faction he separated the remaining mutants and diminished their reaction power in case of threats. And despite liking the school this did not stop the students from being attacked or from having to fight.

    The very fact that Cyclops takes responsibility for these decisions even if everyone condemned him for it is what allowed the other X-men to be able to continue fighting for Xavier's dream while he became a terrorist and equivalent to a mutant Hitler.He became the black sheep so that others could continue the good fight.


    No leadership comes to end without mistakes or people questioning their decisions This happened to Xavier, Storm, Wolverine and even Captain America who is considered by many to be the greatest leader in the marvel universe.

  8. #8
    BANNED
    Join Date
    Nov 2016
    Location
    Utopia
    Posts
    3,873

    Default

    He proposed an election, but the X-Men just chose to be hypocrites and ungrateful. And they've remained hypocrites and ungrateful until after his death.

  9. #9
    Astonishing Member Ulfhammer's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2016
    Posts
    3,056

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Cmbmool View Post
    I know the X-men see a leader, but for all of his grump, Cyclops is still just a man. Which begs this question I once had: Why didn't Cyclops reach out to other X-men and showcased that he can't deal with this and he wants to ask for better solutions.

    I mean Cyclops wasn't closed up on his feelings, then maybe the X-men wouldn't have split as they did.

    Those that wear the crown of leadership suffers a heavy burden. So that begs the question: WHY didn't Cyclops at least try to explain himself BEFORE and not afterwards.

    IN other words: Was there anyway for the X-men not to split if there was from Cyclops and his ways ?

    Was there anyway to keep them safe, not lose their family aspect and still remain protectors of humans and mutants ?
    Leaders don't operate the way you are suggesting, especially during a crisis. And frankly a population that deserts an effective leader during a time of crisis probably deserves their fate. I don't think the X-Men ever questioned Scott's effectiveness, simply his means.

    Any broad appeal toward the X-Men to "help" him because he couldn't deal with being in charge would be a clear sign he shouldn't be in charge. Scott would have simply stepped down if he truly believed this. The core problem is that no other option existed, in his mind anyway, who could have done a better job than he was already doing. This may be arrogance but Scott had a keen analytical mind. He may have very well been right.

    His appeal to Ororo was much more specific, requesting a single individual he had a long standing relationship with, stay to provide counsel and accountability. This is not the same as a broad based cry for help, more like a confidante. Is Scott even capable of admitting he's unable to handle the job? There's room for discussion on this point. Regardless, the situation didn't allow for him to consider this. The X-Men needed a firm hand to guide them, especially then, and him making this kind of admission would have been demoralizing. After all, if Scott Summers can't handle the situation, who could?

    The reality is that, rightly or wrongly, Scott changed his leadership style and decision making process to adapt to the situation that Utopia presented. The X-Men as a whole didn't make this transition. So you had a psychological disconnect between the leader and his "troops" which only widened as the situation became more dire. A split of some kind was probably inevitable at that point although I agree that it should have more likely fallen between Ororo and Scott as akiresu_ suggested.

  10. #10
    Astonishing Member stormphoenix's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2016
    Location
    California,Sacramento
    Posts
    3,664

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Cmbmool View Post
    I know the X-men see a leader, but for all of his grump, Cyclops is still just a man. Which begs this question I once had: Why didn't Cyclops reach out to other X-men and showcased that he can't deal with this and he wants to ask for better solutions.

    I mean Cyclops wasn't closed up on his feelings, then maybe the X-men wouldn't have split as they did.

    Those that wear the crown of leadership suffers a heavy burden. So that begs the question: WHY didn't Cyclops at least try to explain himself BEFORE and not afterwards.

    IN other words: Was there anyway for the X-men not to split if there was from Cyclops and his ways ?

    Was there anyway to keep them safe, not lose their family aspect and still remain protectors of humans and mutants ?
    Good question. I was thinking the same well to some of the questions.

    I guess some didnít understand his way of thinking. I donít know.
    Last edited by stormphoenix; 02-27-2018 at 09:58 AM.
    #StormsMootyPass
    #PlusUltra!!!
    Ororo Munroe(Bright Lady), Hadari Yao, The Cloud Runner, Goddess of the People.
    Goddess of the Storm Ororo Munroe
    #StormCaster
    The Piercing Light of AmunRa!!!!!

  11. #11

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Havok83 View Post
    Did you not read Gillen’s UXM run?
    Where he threatened the UN like a rouge state?
    Let the flames destroy all but that which is pure and true!

  12. #12
    Mighty Member
    Join Date
    Aug 2016
    Posts
    1,184

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Cmbmool View Post
    For all of his leadership skills, WHY didn't Cyclops reach out to others ?
    IMO: because Jean wasn't there to counsel him and keep him grounded. Instead, he had Emma who indulged his hubris and enabled his self-destructive impulses.

  13. #13
    Astonishing Member stormphoenix's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2016
    Location
    California,Sacramento
    Posts
    3,664

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by FUBAR007 View Post
    IMO: because Jean wasn't there to counsel him and keep him grounded. Instead, he had Emma who indulged his hubris and enabled his self-destructive impulses.
    WOW, that's deep. *snaps Fingers*
    #StormsMootyPass
    #PlusUltra!!!
    Ororo Munroe(Bright Lady), Hadari Yao, The Cloud Runner, Goddess of the People.
    Goddess of the Storm Ororo Munroe
    #StormCaster
    The Piercing Light of AmunRa!!!!!

  14. #14
    Extraordinary Member
    Join Date
    May 2014
    Posts
    6,522

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by CuteClops View Post
    He proposed an election, but the X-Men just chose to be hypocrites and ungrateful. And they've remained hypocrites and ungrateful until after his death.
    By then it was already too late to try to convince anyone of this idea. Cyclops could have suggested this earlier, but didn’t.

  15. #15
    Astonishing Member Hizashi's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2017
    Location
    Austin
    Posts
    4,067

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Cmbmool View Post
    By then it was already too late to try to convince anyone of this idea. Cyclops could have suggested this earlier, but didn’t.
    Anyone could’ve suggested it earlier. When the disconnect was enough to warrant the question of who should lead if not Cyclops, no one actually wanted to carry out a vote. Eventually, some just left instead of working things out.

    Couldn’t the question, if raised too early, caused worry amongst the surviving mutant population?

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •