A Mature-Readers Out-Of-Continuity Superman title is apparently coming.

[JBatmanFan05]

Well I don't think that it will be a series of "Elseworlds" as in "Batman during the French Revolution" or What if Superman was Green Lantern" type of thing.
I guess that what they are attempting to do is something which COULD be potentially in continuity but departs from it both tonally and thematically. Like The Dark Knight Returns or The Man Without Fear. I mean, if you think about it it's the same idea behind DC Ink or Zoom.

I think you're probably correct. I just meant to poke a tiny hole in the continuity matter because...that may not be so clear. Scott Snyder's All Star Batman was continuity and he talks about a new imprint to do the kind of stories he did in All Star.

[Myskin]

https://io9.gizmodo.com/dc-has-an-ep...poc-1797174893
I think that this foreshadowed the whole thing.

[MajorHoy]

Well I don't think that it will be a series of "Elseworlds" as in "Batman during the French Revolution" or What if Superman was Green Lantern" type of thing.
I guess that what they are attempting to do is something which COULD be potentially in continuity but departs from it both tonally and thematically. Like The Dark Knight Returns or The Man Without Fear. I mean, if you think about it it's the same idea behind DC Ink or Zoom.

So, it looks like DC could now be taking the fuzzy-wuzzy/wishy-washy gray "continuity" (wink! wink!) idea and carrying it to new extremes?

[JBatmanFan05]

So, it looks like DC could now be taking the fuzzy-wuzzy/wishy-washy gray "continuity" (wink! wink!) idea and carrying it to new extremes?

Legends of the Dark Knight from 90s might be similar to the plan, it was more mature, let stories have room to breathe. Despite all the dispute over whether it was canon, some were definitely canon even early on...LOTDK #16-20 Venom was clearly canon (venom, used Santa Prisca from The Question comics).

[Nelliebly]

I don’t have any problem with a mature Superman story.

I do have a problem with the fact that “mature” has almost always, without fail, meant Lois is either dead, brutally hurt, treated like garbage or just flat out thrown out on her ass.

Frank Miller’s views that Lois isn’t “good enough” for Superman bc “she’s not a god” are irresponsible at best and flat out misogynistic at worst. Men like him have no business being on a Superman book as that kind of dangerously misogynist rhetoric doesn’t belong on the page endorsed by DC in any capacity. Mature needs to evolve beyond Frank Miller.

So sure. Make a mature Superman book. But “mature” shouldn’t just mean “hey let’s kill off Lois or write her totally OOC to get rid of her.” They aren’t going to get away with that in 2018. Not anymore. And at this juncture, if that’s what “mature” means....DC can keep it. And I expect it will be ill received.

[JBatmanFan05]

And will "mature" simply mean dark? All Star Batman was plenty mature to me.

[Clark_Kent]

Thrilled to be hearing about this. Been saying they need to do this for years. And very interested in seeing if DC can actually pull of a mature book without just making it a regular book, but with swearing, cigars, and nudity.

Will they get quality writers who will bring complex, adult stories to the characters, or the kind of immaturity that so often thinks itself mature for its use of "adult" content?

If they do it right.....this line could end up replacing the majority of my pull list. I'm especially interested in seeing how they put Clark into such a narrative without sacrificing his character. It can be done, and it can be done well.....though the second point to consider will be whether readers are capable of grasping it, or if they'll just immediately throw it under the bus for not resembling their preconceived notions of what a Super-story "must" be.

Absolutely agreed! Yes. I've been dying for a mature-readers line for as long as I can remember. I'm incredibly excited by this. While I would definitely prefer stories that truly are mature, and not just what many believe is "mature", I have to say - I'm not scared of naked women whatsoever, so if that's in there occasionally I'm fine with that also :P

I would love to see some hard-boiled Batman-as-detective stuff here, stories that don't fit the superhero mold as much as they fit the noir detective one. There's many, many ways to take Superman into mature territory as well; the key is to put him in "mature" stories without making Superman "mature", if that makes sense. Superman is everywhere, and sometimes he's going to work on dark cases, same as Batman does. Not every adventure has to be cosmic or from Krypton, give Kent a story to investigate that you can't tell in the regular line.

The possibilities! Can't wait.

[SJNeal]

Will they get quality writers who will bring complex, adult stories to the characters, or the kind of immaturity that so often thinks itself mature for its use of "adult" content?

Probably the latter. I'm guessing they'll just drop a memo to the current stable of writers - "Hey, anyone got a dark, mature Superman story floating around?" - and go from there.

And I wish I was being facetious.

[ssupes]

Frank Miller’s views that Lois isn’t “good enough” for Superman bc “she’s not a god” are irresponsible at best and flat out misogynistic at worst. Men like him have no business being on a Superman book as that kind of dangerously misogynist rhetoric doesn’t belong on the page endorsed by DC in any capacity. Mature needs to evolve beyond Frank Miller.

Just curious but when has he said this or even implied it? I can't find anything said that he doesn't believe Lois Lane isn't good enough.

[JBatmanFan05]

Just curious but when has he said this or even implied it? I can't find anything said that he doesn't believe Lois Lane isn't good enough.

This. And it depends which Lois Frank maybe had in mind. I don't believe what I'm about to type at all, but: I know that some fans may not like versions of Lois where she really doesn't give Clark any shot despite his efforts and their rapport and instead gives her attention to Superman.

[superduperman]

I'm hoping that Miller's Superman book isn't the only Superman project they pursue. I'd love something more like Marvel's Max line. Where it's kind of an ongoing just outside canon. I don't think it would be a good idea to have two books that take place in continuity only one where he drops "F" bombs and the other he doesn't. If they are going to do this, it needs to be it's own thing. I'd love a more Golden Age feel where he's a reporter first, superhero second. Less aliens and monsters and more gangsters and corrupt politicians. If all they are going to publish is Miller's Superman story and just make it a bunch of Batman books, then there's really no point. The Miller thing is going to happen regardless. He deserves more than "It's All Star Batman and Robin only with Superman this time!" Let's have a real mature line and not just drop whatever books use harsh language on this imprint and call it a "mature" line.

[RumpusMagoo]

Anyone who wants to see a mature Superman story should check out Alan Moore's Miracleman. You'll get a mature Shazam to boot.

BTW, this is a ridiculous idea; why not try to come up with something new instead of Watchmen versions of the big 7?

[SJNeal]

Hmmm... maybe this "Black Label" imprint will be the new one set to be launched by Bendis?

[Nelliebly]

Just curious but when has he said this or even implied it? I can't find anything said that he doesn't believe Lois Lane isn't good enough.

There is video of him word for word saying that he doesn’t understand why anyone as godlike as Superman would bother with a human as a romantic partner. His views are completely at odds with the character and his disdain for human romantic partners who aren’t “god like” is really gross.

That’s why he always kills her off every time he touches Superman. Because he genuinely believes that human beings are beneath his godliness. It’s gross.

[Nelliebly]

This. And it depends which Lois Frank maybe had in mind. I don't believe what I'm about to type at all, but: I know that some fans may not like versions of Lois where she really doesn't give Clark any shot despite his efforts and their rapport and instead gives her attention to Superman.

He definitely said it but again...you get that even if that was the case that’s not an excuse, right? Bc it’s still sexism.

For starters, Lois Lane has been in love with Clark Kent for like 30 years now. To not recognize and understand that she loves Clark is to be deliberately obtuse at this point. If you don’t know she loves Clark you don’t know enough to be on a book. But even back in the day, it was still a sexist accusation to level at her. Lois has always loved the real person. She loved Superman when Clark Kent was not being true to himself. It was NEVER fair that men punished Lois for loving the real person that SUPERMAN was around her rather than the coward that Clark pretended to be. It was sexist. We know that now in 2018. Lois should never have been expected to want someone who wasn’t being “real.” She loved Superman bc he was loving towards her and appeared to be fighting the good fight. Clark, on the other hand, was literally pretending that he wasn’t willing to be as brave as Lois herself was. If Clark wanted to be loved as Clark then he needed to be true to himself and he wasn’t back then. Every time he dropped the “act” even in the older books...Lois wanted him. All he had to do was be himself. So I’m not going to excuse men who keep up this sexist lie that she “ignored Clark and wanted Superman” as if it was a character flaw on HER part. Because it wasn’t. There was no version of Superman where Clark gave his “best efforts” to win her and she chose Superman. Lying to a woman about who you really are is...not...your...best...effort. Period.

Mind you, this is way deeper than anything Frank has ever said. Miller’s politics are notoriously sketchy and offensive. It’s not remotely surprising that he would insist that Superman would be too godlike for humans bc his worldview is fairly terrible. He’s a notorious misogynist. His works are also often laced with racism and homophobia. Which is why he has no business on Superman.

Either way, this is a diversion from my larger point which is that “mature” with Superman nearly always means “dead wife” and I dare literally anyone to write a mature Superman book that actually uses her and doesn’t treat her like trash bc that would ::actually:: be fresh.