A Mature-Readers Out-Of-Continuity Superman title is apparently coming.

[RumpusMagoo]

He definitely said it but again...you get that even if that was the case that’s not an excuse, right? Bc it’s still sexism.

For starters, Lois Lane has been in love with Clark Kent for like 30 years now. To not recognize and understand that she loves Clark is to be deliberately obtuse at this point. If you don’t know she loves Clark you don’t know enough to be on a book. But even back in the day, it was still a sexist accusation to level at her. Lois has always loved the real person. She loved Superman when Clark Kent was not being true to himself. It was NEVER fair that men punished Lois for loving the real person that SUPERMAN was around her rather than the coward that Clark pretended to be. It was sexist. We know that now in 2018. Lois should never have been expected to want someone who wasn’t being “real.” She loved Superman bc he was loving towards her and appeared to be fighting the good fight. Clark, on the other hand, was literally pretending that he wasn’t willing to be as brave as Lois herself was. If Clark wanted to be loved as Clark then he needed to be true to himself and he wasn’t back then. Every time he dropped the “act” even in the older books...Lois wanted him. All he had to do was be himself. So I’m not going to excuse men who keep up this sexist lie that she “ignored Clark and wanted Superman” as if it was a character flaw on HER part. Because it wasn’t. There was no version of Superman where Clark gave his “best efforts” to win her and she chose Superman. Lying to a woman about who you really are is...not...your...best...effort. Period.

Mind you, this is way deeper than anything Frank has ever said. Miller’s politics are notoriously sketchy and offensive. It’s not remotely surprising that he would insist that Superman would be too godlike for humans bc his worldview is fairly terrible. He’s a notorious misogynist. His works are also often laced with racism and homophobia. Which is why he has no business on Superman.

Either way, this is a diversion from my larger point which is that “mature” with Superman nearly always means “dead wife” and I dare literally anyone to write a mature Superman book that actually uses her and doesn’t treat her like trash bc that would ::actually:: be fresh.

I agree with this. I don't think a lot of creators appreciate just how important Lois is to the Superman mythos. She not just a supporting character; she's THE supporting character, even more then Robin.

[Robotman]

Well hopefully what comes out of this is the line offering creators some more freedom. Not just stories that are shocking just for the sake of being shocking.

[Ra-El]

Writers I would like to see doing a mature Superman story:

Warren Ellis - this is the type of thing he does, take a character for about 12 issues, say what he have to say and leave. He could do like in Transmetropolitan, with some of Clarck's articles serving as narration, maybe some of Lois too.

Tom King - Mister Miracle says everything, a powerful character with a strong wife and they are treated as equals but is clear who is the main character.

Garth Ennis - he isn't a writer who really cares about superheroes and is not what would be normally associated with Superman, but the way he treated the character in Hitman and Six Pack(where he was the only JL member who wasn't dumb, stupid or a jerk) kind of make me curious to see what he would do.

Fábio Moon and Gabriel Bá - if they did something like Daytripper, but starring Superman it would be something else, and I would like to see a brazilian writting the character.

Joshua Wlliamsom - he is just one of my favorites right now.

Christopher Priest - DC better start given him more high profile work, because Marvel is already talking to him.

Neil Gaiman - it isn't happening.

Brian K. Vaughn - Y-The Last Man made me cry, those 3 last issues. If he can do something similar with Superman it would me a classic.


Who would be the artists I not sure, but a few names that comes to mind is: Rafael Albuquerque, Andrei Bressan, Evan Shaner, Russel Dauterman, David Marquez and my favorite right now Riccardo Federici.

[JBatmanFan05]

Garth Ennis - he isn't a writer who really cares about superheroes and is not what would be normally associated with Superman, but the way he treated the character in Hitman and Six Pack(where he was the only JL member who wasn't dumb, stupid or a jerk) kind of make me curious to see what he would do.

You know you're a great writer when you don't much care for traditional superheroes and yet manage to write one the best Superman stories.

It would be interesting to see Ennis try to break from his mold and do a "Alan Moore Supreme" like turn with Superman. I doubt he will try it, but I'd love to see it.

[Korath]

Perhaps I'll get hooked back on Superman with that. A more mature book may mean no disgusting underwears on the outside, and possibly, if D.C. has a smart move left, it'll be an Elseworld where he isn't stuck with goddam Lois Lane and Jon Kent...

[Jim Kelly]

Well if it's just about making Superman a guy who spits and calls people filthy names, that's not what I want. But there are some stories about people inside the Superman mythology, which can't be done well, if they can't get into mature themes.

A story like "A Game of You" doesn't have that much to do with Morpheus, but it exists within that Sandman mythology. And that's more what I wanted to see from a mature Superman title.

[Ascended]

Absolutely agreed! Yes. I've been dying for a mature-readers line for as long as I can remember. I'm incredibly excited by this. While I would definitely prefer stories that truly are mature, and not just what many believe is "mature", I have to say - I'm not scared of naked women whatsoever, so if that's in there occasionally I'm fine with that also :P

I would love to see some hard-boiled Batman-as-detective stuff here, stories that don't fit the superhero mold as much as they fit the noir detective one. There's many, many ways to take Superman into mature territory as well; the key is to put him in "mature" stories without making Superman "mature", if that makes sense. Superman is everywhere, and sometimes he's going to work on dark cases, same as Batman does. Not every adventure has to be cosmic or from Krypton, give Kent a story to investigate that you can't tell in the regular line.

The possibilities! Can't wait.

It should be interesting.

I think it'll either be incredible, or terrible. If they can capture the kind of quality that defined Vertigo for so long, and still keep Clark "in character" it'll be an achievement indeed.

Hell, if they can make this as good as a typical storyline in Invincible (RIP) it'll be an achievement.

But I fear we'll just get boobs and drugs and swearing, because that stuff is "adult" even though any fifteen year old idiot can get all those things too.

[The_Lurk]

Absolutely agreed! Yes. I've been dying for a mature-readers line for as long as I can remember. I'm incredibly excited by this. While I would definitely prefer stories that truly are mature, and not just what many believe is "mature", I have to say - I'm not scared of naked women whatsoever, so if that's in there occasionally I'm fine with that also :P

I would love to see some hard-boiled Batman-as-detective stuff here, stories that don't fit the superhero mold as much as they fit the noir detective one. There's many, many ways to take Superman into mature territory as well; the key is to put him in "mature" stories without making Superman "mature", if that makes sense. Superman is everywhere, and sometimes he's going to work on dark cases, same as Batman does. Not every adventure has to be cosmic or from Krypton, give Kent a story to investigate that you can't tell in the regular line.

The possibilities! Can't wait.

And suddenly I'm interested in a mature Superman story; thanks

That old "Lets kill Lois and make him evil and gory because we make it mature" treadmill... *puke gesture*

[Bored at 3:00AM]

I think there are adult-oriented stories to be told with Superman in which he isn't a villain. I also think the character works best in an all-ages to PG-13 context.

Frank Miller's Superman Year One seems like a prime candidate for this.

[JBatmanFan05]

Frank Miller's Superman Year One seems like a prime candidate for this.

I'm fine if Miller's story winds up in this imprint, I just hope DC isn't planning a parade of Miller-style "maturity" from other writers. I want this imprint to totally allow something like All Star Superman and other lighter or more colorful fare.

[Bored at 3:00AM]

I'm fine if Miller's story winds up in this imprint, I just hope DC isn't planning a parade of Miller-style "maturity" from other writers. I want this imprint to totally allow something like All Star Superman and other lighter or more colorful fare.

But, the thing is, stories like All Star Superman and lighter, more colorful stories don't need to be for adults only. Extreme violence and darker themes are the only things that would keep a Superman story from being for adults only, since I sincerely doubt DC is going to allow Superman to be used in a R-rated sex comedy.

[Soubhagya]

Don't really have an opinion about this. If mature means simply putting in naked women and swear words just to shock or tiltilate, i am not interested. Thank you. But if it means to tell a story which can't be told otherwise then it might interest me.

I am always supportive to out of continuity stories unless i am not due to some reason. Such freedom from constraints like continuity has the potential to bring some great stuff. Dark Knight Returns, All Star Superman, Whatever Happened to the man of Tomorrow? So, i will keep an eye on this.

[TruthAndJustice]

If "mature" means "let bring a ton of geopolitics into a Superman story and see how his presence affects the world" then I'm down.

Otherwise, no. I'm sure there's someone out there who wants to do a DARK KNIGHT specifically for Superman. Forget it. It was already done. It was called KINGDOM COME.

[Jim Kelly]

Maybe in these days, content that would have been mature in the past is now okay to put in a mainstream book; however, it might be that DC doesn't want those elements to attach to the official version of the Superman family.

For instance, Krypto's animal nature suggests he would not conduct himself according to the social rules that Superman follows. You could probably show a lot of that in a regular book, but it's not something DC would want kids to know about.

Or, I'm sure Jimmy Olsen gets himself into a lot of sticky situations with men and women--some of a sexual nature. He might get caught up in #metoo. And that's something that could be explored in a regular comic, but putting it in a mature readers book means it won't be canon and gives them a free hand.

[the illustrious mr. kenway]

Hernan Guerra would be perfect for this.