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  1. #31
    Astonishing Member Knives's Avatar
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    Well no matter how the story could be told.

    I always be on the side against the registration since I am a fan of the X-mens do not trust this kind of power in the hands of the government someone would always abuse that for their own interests, but agree they left the side of Stark that had good arguments in a difficult position with Thor's clone and illegal prisons without trial.

    I believe it is perfectly possible to create events of heroes vs heroes without committing character assassination or making one side of the conflict into hypocrites or villains. But let's be frank would not have the same weight or appeal to fans without saying that would not have the same number of sales.

    Seeing Stark and Steve, Carol and Stark, Scott and Wolverine or Emma and Medusa trying to kill each other does not have the same appeal as heroes leaving their differences aside to come to a solution.

    No matter how much horrible the result of these stories are for some characters they are choices made consciously by writers and editors thinking about how to exploit this in the best possible way financially. As many do not like it but I will not deny that every time this happens marvel gets a boost in sales.

  2. #32

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    Quote Originally Posted by Knives View Post
    Well no matter how the story could be told.

    I always be on the side against the registration since I am a fan of the X-mens do not trust this kind of power in the hands of the government someone would always abuse that for their own interests, but agree they left the side of Stark that had good arguments in a difficult position with Thor's clone and illegal prisons without trial.

    I believe it is perfectly possible to create events of heroes vs heroes without committing character assassination or making one side of the conflict into hypocrites or villains. But let's be frank would not have the same weight or appeal to fans without saying that would not have the same number of sales.

    Seeing Stark and Steve, Carol and Stark, Scott and Wolverine or Emma and Medusa trying to kill each other does not have the same appeal as heroes leaving their differences aside to come to a solution.

    No matter how much horrible the result of these stories are for some characters they are choices made consciously by writers and editors thinking about how to exploit this in the best possible way financially. As many do not like it but I will not deny that every time this happens marvel gets a boost in sales.
    What's the difference between being found by cerebro and registering with the government? And before you answer, keep in mind that I have read the Blob's 1st appearance.

  3. #33

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    Quote Originally Posted by Lukmendes View Post
    It's because of her that I mentioned "only active super heroes", because all she was doing is fly around, then suddenly motherfucking SHIELD forces her to register lol.
    I think that you folks are underestimating Cloud9's abilities. That same girl could be forced by Hydra or the Purple Man to place a bomb on the outside of a plane.

  4. #34
    Uncanny Member XPac's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Michael Watkins View Post
    What's the difference between being found by cerebro and registering with the government? And before you answer, keep in mind that I have read the Blob's 1st appearance.
    There are a lot of legal issues surrounding the SHRA. Not just with it's execution (which I think EVERYONE would agree broke laws at times), but even in principal. Without getting into a whole legal discussion, I think it's important that the proceeding president in the MU calls the SHRA unamerica, and Congress itself eventually revokes it. Registering people who haven't necessarily committed any crimes for who they are as opposed to what they do will always be a very very grey area legally speaking.

  5. #35
    Better than YOU! Alan2099's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by XPac View Post
    The thing about it is that Hill was smart enough (or dumb enough depending on how you look at it) to anticipate that before the law was passed and effectively took any legal means of Steve combating the law off the table.
    Maria Hill was never a smart character.
    By trying to arrest Steve before the law is passed, he's either locked up or a fugitive criminal. Either way, his options are pretty limited. Which of course is necessary for this to become any sort of event in the first place.
    That and when cap did go to the press, he got the single most incompetent reporter that ever lived.

  6. #36
    Uncanny Member XPac's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Alan2099 View Post
    Maria Hill was never a smart character.

    That and when cap did go to the press, he got the single most incompetent reporter that ever lived.
    Sally Floyd was horrible. She had an interview with Captain freaking America and just walks away because she didn't happen to agree with what he was saying. Putting aside my own personal feelings over just how stupid her own perspective of things was, on a purely professional standpoint this woman obviously got her journalism credentials out of a cereal box.

  7. #37
    Better than YOU! Alan2099's Avatar
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    Has anybody brought her back and killed her yet? That seems like something somebody would do.

  8. #38
    Uncanny Member XPac's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Alan2099 View Post
    Has anybody brought her back and killed her yet? That seems like something somebody would do.
    She was brought back to interview HydraCap in Secret Empire. Wasn't killed, but she did end up locked up for asking Steve one too many questions.

  9. #39
    Astonishing Member Knives's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Michael Watkins View Post
    What's the difference between being found by cerebro and registering with the government? And before you answer, keep in mind that I have read the Blob's 1st appearance.
    Cerebro detects mutants around the planet of course this creates numerous ways to use this technology just like any other.

    In the case of Xavier or X-mens it serves mainly as a way to locate mutants to offer them refuge, help them how to use their powers, save mutants when threatened, or even find specific mutants. It is an essential tool for X-mens because it allows to find mutants that have just awakened their powers, which in general happens in a chaotic and destructive way which humans and police usually react with violence.

    The act of registration works in the opposite way but with the same goal rather than locate it tries to force those who have powers to register by using the law and penalties for those who do not agree. X-mens do not force anyone to join them just offer help or rescue mutants that are in danger.

    Considering that similar technologies have been used by various governments in the marvel universe to identify, capture, and kill mutants do not think registration is a good idea. Bastion himself used technology and information from the US government to promote a genocide of mutants and humans that could transmit the x gene.Shield and other organizations on more than one occasion have already enlisted heroes and villains by using blackmail or technology to do dirty work.

    The biggest risk is that you never know who will use this infoirmation in the future. Osborn, Red Skull and Captain America (Secret Empire) at one time infiltrated the government and could have used this information to hunt heroes, mutants and their families.

    In real life let's not forget that this type of list exists and is used to hunt minorities in many countries. And let's not forget the cases of Snowden and Assange that showed cases of abuse by authorities using surveillance systems and the risks that the disclosure of this information created when exposing allies of Americans in hostile countries when they are stolen.
    Last edited by Knives; 03-06-2018 at 12:57 PM.

  10. #40
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    I really don't see any version where the Pro Regulation side could be viewed as morally/ethically just. The entire concept is blatantly authoritarian, uses the concept of pre-crime to round up individuals who have done no wrong simply based on an idea of what they *could* do, consolidates power into the hands of an organization with a history of corruption, and creates a list that could be exploited for any number of nefarious reasons.

    They could have approached this in any manner or more constructive ways and it still would be highly problematic at its core

  11. #41
    I am BLACK GUY dreyga2000's Avatar
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    I feel like the movie actually executed this perfectly.

  12. #42
    Uncanny Member XPac's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by dreyga2000 View Post
    I feel like the movie actually executed this perfectly.
    The movie did a better job of handling the issue in a lot of ways.

    Steve didn't entirely agree with the law, but he didn't violently resist it until he found out they were going to kill his friend, who he knew was brainwashed. And Stark didn't do anything over the top. Anyone not interested in registering could simply retire... no one was forced to do anything. All around I think everyone ended up looking better.

  13. #43

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    Quote Originally Posted by XPac View Post
    The movie did a better job of handling the issue in a lot of ways.

    Steve didn't entirely agree with the law, but he didn't violently resist it until he found out they were going to kill his friend, who he knew was brainwashed. And Stark didn't do anything over the top. Anyone not interested in registering could simply retire... no one was forced to do anything. All around I think everyone ended up looking better.
    it still devolved into a playground fistfight. and Cap was still the one acting entirely on emotion.

  14. #44

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    Quote Originally Posted by johnnybourbon View Post
    I really don't see any version where the Pro Regulation side could be viewed as morally/ethically just.
    it's common sense that a group like the Avengers needs to answer to someone. they were entering other countries without permission and destroying ****. lives were lost. people wouldn't except this of real world law enforcement officers. why should the Avengers be above it?

    Quote Originally Posted by johnnybourbon View Post
    The entire concept is blatantly authoritarian,
    costumed heroics/vigilantism is blatantly authoritarian

    Quote Originally Posted by johnnybourbon View Post
    uses the concept of pre-crime to round up individuals who have done no wrong simply based on an idea of what they *could* do, consolidates power into the hands of an organization with a history of corruption, and creates a list that could be exploited for any number of nefarious reasons.
    no different from foid cards and driver's licenses - they aren't going to just take your word on it that you can properly operate a motor vehicle - common sense

  15. #45
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    Quote Originally Posted by Michael Watkins View Post
    it's common sense that a group like the Avengers needs to answer to someone. they were entering other countries without permission and destroying ****. lives were lost. people wouldn't except this of real world law enforcement officers. why should the Avengers be above it?



    costumed heroics/vigilantism is blatantly authoritarian



    no different from foid cards and driver's licenses - they aren't going to just take your word on it that you can properly operate a motor vehicle - common sense
    You are referring to Fury's Secret War here right? Its been a while since I read that but wasnt it conducted under the guise of the heroes working for SHIELD and they (the participating heroes) mistakenly thinking the mission was authorized? Either way if they acted outside of the law then they can face those charges on a basis of that case or any other that applies.

    Thats a misuse of Authoritarianism, that word specifically applies to use of authority which the Avengers do not (or at least did not) possess. Vigilantes by nature act outside the law so therefore no, that is not blatantly authoritarian. Once again if they were being charged with crimes of vigilantism that would be a different argument and wouldn't require a registration act.

    Drivers license is a permit to operate a vehicle on a public road, its not a permit to own a car (or I guess in this case be a car), much like a CCW also applies to use and operation, once again not the ability to own. Im no expert on the FOID but parts of it have been ruled unconstitutional and I imagine we havent seen the end of challenges to it so it probably not the best example. You can say "common sense" all day long but if you have to misuse terms and make poor comparisons it doesnt do your argument any favors. The SHRA applied to registering people just for who they are which is different than a law dictating what they are and are not allowed to do.

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