Civil War Without The Foolish and Evil Actions of The Pro-Reg Side

[Michael Watkins]

Again, Bucky surrendering is not an option once they decide to have Bucky shot on sight.

I've seen too many of the other marvel movies to believe that Steve couldn't come up with an alternative. all he really had to do was take Bucky down himself. they weren't going to fire on Captain America w/o provocation. he could walked right out of there with an unconscious Bucky. and Stark could have helped him. but noooooo, Steve had to go it along; until it spiraled into a street fight.

[XPac]

I've seen too many of the other marvel movies to believe that Steve couldn't come up with an alternative. all he really had to do was take Bucky down himself. they weren't going to fire on Captain America w/o provocation. he could walked right out of there with an unconscious Bucky. and Stark could have helped him. but noooooo, Steve had to go it along; until it spiraled into a street fight.

They likely won't fire on Captain America without provocation. Bucky is a different story. Again, they have orders to shoot on sight. Steve has justifiable reason at that point to believe that Bucky wasn't necessarily going to be offered proper due process.

Steve's not being entirely unreasonable here. Again, he was willing to allow Bucky to be taken into custody. Had the people hunting Bucky down taken a less extreme stance, I think they could have all worked together here.

Black Panther is the other obvious x factor here. He was trying to kill Bucky, which was understandable given the circumstances. So even if Ross people could be reasoned with, T'Challa in the frame of mind he was in at that point in the story might not have been.

[Alan2099]

the exploding guy was thrown against a fuel tank.

The exploding guy was hit hard enough to render him unconscious based on everything that ANYBODY knew about the guy and he's had a fuel TRUCK thrown at him (by Hercules) and has never detonated that big before.

None of that changes the fact that Nitro is the one who killed everybody. You could say that Nitro was panicked. He's still the one that killed everybody. You could say that the new Warriors handled it badly. Nitro is still the one that killed everybody.

[Carabas]

When people are going to kill your friend, then yeah... emotion would play into your motivation. Steve was willing to allow Bucky to be taken into custody... he just wasn't willing to allow BUcky to be killed for actons he knows he wasn't really responsible for. But that's Steve.

IIRC Bucky wasn't even mind-controlled at the time. He just plain didn't do it, he was framed by Zemo.

[Carabas]

superhero is such a corny concept to begin with. there's very little difference between a "good" costumed vigilantism and some nut who is simply convinced of their own rightness. Speedball was acting as a "hero" when he got those kids killed. and everyone of them stood by when they were cataloguing mutants.

Speedball was acting like a reality show star. Which is what he was at the time.

Tony would have taken Buck down, hard. but he wouldn't have let him be executed; not knowing that he might have been brainwashed (plus, he's Steve's friend). they should have worked together.

Tony wouldn't have got a say in the matter. Bucky was to be extradited to Wakanda for regicide, and T'Challa was going to do his best to make sure he wouldn't even be captured alive.

[Gaastra]

Steve didn't entirely agree with the law, but he didn't violently resist it until he found out they were going to kill his friend,

Wasn't it him finding out that wanda was locked up. He was going to sign it right there till he found out wanda was not allowed to leave.

[Carabas]

Wasn't it him finding out that wanda was locked up. He was going to sign it right there till he found out wanda was not allowed to leave.

No, that just caused him to not sign.
T'challa calling open season on Bucky is what turned things violent.

[Michael Watkins]

Tony wouldn't have got a say in the matter. Bucky was to be extradited to Wakanda for regicide, and T'Challa was going to do his best to make sure he wouldn't even be captured alive.

he certainly wouldn't have let those military guys gun bucky down. that would have robbed him of his chance to deliver Wakandan justice. T'challa would have had Bucky taken to Wakanda. all it would take is a kernel of doubt to save Bucky; provided by Rogers telling T'challa that his friend had been brainwashed. they would have eventually figured out that it wasn't him who bombed the embassy.

[Michael Watkins]

The exploding guy was hit hard enough to render him unconscious based on everything that ANYBODY knew about the guy and he's had a fuel TRUCK thrown at him (by Hercules) and has never detonated that big before.

a drunken Hercules threw a fuel tanker at Nitro. that no one was killed is a miracle. Dane Whitman and Oracle cut him loose, after that. you've just made the case for regulation of the superpowered community.

[Michael Watkins]

They likely won't fire on Captain America without provocation. Bucky is a different story. Again, they have orders to shoot on sight.

yet, Bucky is alive. when they caught up to him, he was incarcerated.

[Agent Z]

The thing about it is that Hill was smart enough (or dumb enough depending on how you look at it) to anticipate that before the law was passed and effectively took any legal means of Steve combating the law off the table.

By trying to arrest Steve before the law is passed, he's either locked up or a fugitive criminal. Either way, his options are pretty limited. Which of course is necessary for this to become any sort of event in the first place.

He could have still talked to Tony. Hill wasn't the only on the pro-Reg side and at the end she didn't even have the most influence.

[Agent Z]

Speedball was acting like a reality show star. Which is what he was at the time.



Tony wouldn't have got a say in the matter. Bucky was to be extradited to Wakanda for regicide, and T'Challa was going to do his best to make sure he wouldn't even be captured alive.

The extradition was a deleted scene so I don't think it has any bearing on the film as released. And T'Challa isn't invincible.

[Agent Z]

Again, Bucky surrendering is not an option once they decide to have Bucky shot on sight.

I'll say again, Steve was willing to cooperate with them when they were just trying to take Bucky into custody. But that no longer becomes an option once the decision is made for Bucky to be killed without any sort of trial.

The GS9 team didn't start shooting until Rogers and Barnes started throwing punches. Besides, being shot means something very different for super soldiers than normal people.

[Agent Z]

I think that you folks are underestimating Cloud9's abilities. That same girl could be forced by Hydra or the Purple Man to place a bomb on the outside of a plane.

None of which ever happened in the story nor was it a factor in why they drafted her. It's like a martial arts black belt being conscripted because his skills could be used to train ISIS operatives.

If she wasn't doing anything wrong she should have been left alone.

[XPac]

yet, Bucky is alive. when they caught up to him, he was incarcerated.

Sure. But as I said, there were orders to shoot on sight. If they had no I mention of doing that, they shouldn't have made the order. Cap had every reason to believe they were going to kill Bucky ... that was on them.

That's the point here. Cap was right and they were wrong. Bucky was innocent, and they were giving orders to gun him down. And that led to the situation we got.