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  1. #271
    Amazing Member Enzeru's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tendrin View Post
    'SJW' writers. *sigh* Duuuude.
    They're an issue. They entirely made me stop reading Marvel comics for the last few years.
    I believe that writers should be hired based on merit and not on their skin color / gender / sexual orientation. But look what we got with America Chavez, the female Hawkeye, Homo-Iceman and many others. Terribly written books by terribly racist people.

  2. #272
    Ultimate Member numberthirty's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Enzeru View Post
    They're an issue. They entirely made me stop reading Marvel comics for the last few years.
    I believe that writers should be hired based on merit and not on their skin color / gender / sexual orientation. But look what we got with America Chavez, the female Hawkeye, Homo-Iceman and many others. Terribly written books by terribly racist people.
    Another "Let Me Tell You What "We" Got..." even though I apparently stopped reading Marvel Comics' titles.

    How about we don't.

  3. #273
    Extraordinary Member Tendrin's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Enzeru View Post
    They're an issue. They entirely made me stop reading Marvel comics for the last few years.
    I believe that writers should be hired based on merit and not on their skin color / gender / sexual orientation. But look what we got with America Chavez, the female Hawkeye, Homo-Iceman and many others. Terribly written books by terribly racist people.
    Gonna have to part ways with you on this one. Entirely.

  4. #274
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    Quote Originally Posted by Enzeru View Post
    They're an issue. They entirely made me stop reading Marvel comics for the last few years.
    I believe that writers should be hired based on merit and not on their skin color / gender / sexual orientation. But look what we got with America Chavez, the female Hawkeye, Homo-Iceman and many others. Terribly written books by terribly racist people.
    America Chavez was a bad comic, but it was bad because of poor dialogue, un-involving plots, and shakey art. It wasn't bad because a gay latina wrote a comic about a gay latina. If we're going to go there, why is it then that when a white male writes a bad comic about white male no one goes on about "identity politics" or SJWs?

    Female Hawkeye was actually a very good comic. It was probably one of the better comic books that Marvel has put out in the last couple of years.

    I haven't read the new Iceman.

  5. #275
    Amazing Member Enzeru's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ed2962 View Post

    America Chavez was a bad comic, but it was bad because of poor dialogue, un-involving plots, and shakey art. It wasn't bad because a gay latina wrote a comic about a gay latina.
    The book was bad, because it was written by a dumb person, who went on record to say, that "she is afraid of a group of white men walking down the street, because the threat level is so high".
    She was hired, because she was a gay latina. Not because she was a good writer. And that showed in the book with all the poor dialogue, un-involving plots... and I personally didn't mind the art all too much.

    Quote Originally Posted by ed2962 View Post

    If we're going to go there, why is it then that when a white male writes a bad comic about white male no one goes on about "identity politics" or SJWs?
    That has nothing in common with SJW politics and SJW hires.
    Christopher Priest, a black guy, who has been in the industry for a long, long time and wrote some of the most memorable stories... started getting approached by Marvel and DC only to write black characters. He said that the editorial were casting writers, instead of hiring them. He refused all the offers for black characters and told them to get back to him, when they wanted to hire him for his writing skills and not his skin color. Then at one point DC hired him to write Deathstroke. Priests first question was if Deathstroke was a black guy. DC said no and Priest was willing to listen.

    But yeah, whatever. I don't want to derail this thread with SJW politics.
    I would just like to say, that I really don't care about the skin color / gender / sexuality of a character... as long as the characters are written by good, experienced writers, who focus on telling great, adventurous stories, instead of focusing on sharing their political views with everyone. And to me it just didn't look and feel like we were getting those great stories during the SJW Marvel era. But maybe that's just my opinion and you know what they say about opinions and a-holes.

  6. #276
    Extraordinary Member Tendrin's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Enzeru View Post
    The book was bad, because it was written by a dumb person, who went on record to say, that "she is afraid of a group of white men walking down the street, because the threat level is so high".
    She was hired, because she was a gay latina. Not because she was a good writer. And that showed in the book with all the poor dialogue, un-involving plots... and I personally didn't mind the art all too much.
    You spoke earlier of the unawareness you had about how comics had been tailored to you. This is another area where you're unaware of things because of your own identity. Also, you're making some pretty broad assumptions about the logic behind her hiring and why the comic was bad.

    Please reconsider.

  7. #277
    Fantastic Member Harsh Lesson's Avatar
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    Believing her book was bad doesn’t extrapolate into her being a bad character. MAC was great in the Young Avengers and the Ultimates under Ewing. Also, it always humors me to see white men labor on about artist, writers in this case, being hired for “merit” rather than for reasons of inclusion & diversity. As if segregation isn’t a two way street, and heterosexual white folks havent long been gifted roles and positions strictly because of the color of their skin, their identities, perspectives, etc.

  8. #278
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    Quote Originally Posted by Enzeru View Post
    The book was bad, because it was written by a dumb person, who went on record to say, that "she is afraid of a group of white men walking down the street, because the threat level is so high".
    She was hired, because she was a gay latina. Not because she was a good writer. And that showed in the book with all the poor dialogue, un-involving plots... and I personally didn't mind the art all too much.



    That has nothing in common with SJW politics and SJW hires.
    Christopher Priest, a black guy, who has been in the industry for a long, long time and wrote some of the most memorable stories... started getting approached by Marvel and DC only to write black characters. He said that the editorial were casting writers, instead of hiring them. He refused all the offers for black characters and told them to get back to him, when they wanted to hire him for his writing skills and not his skin color. Then at one point DC hired him to write Deathstroke. Priests first question was if Deathstroke was a black guy. DC said no and Priest was willing to listen.

    But yeah, whatever. I don't want to derail this thread with SJW politics.
    I would just like to say, that I really don't care about the skin color / gender / sexuality of a character... as long as the characters are written by good, experienced writers, who focus on telling great, adventurous stories, instead of focusing on sharing their political views with everyone. And to me it just didn't look and feel like we were getting those great stories during the SJW Marvel era. But maybe that's just my opinion and you know what they say about opinions and a-holes.
    I'm sure they thought Rivera would bring a unique voice to the title. It didn't work and that happens. It's not unique to SJWs.

    I brought the other thing up because subconsciously/consciously a lot of us think straight white male in comics as the default. And some people think there needs to be special justification for anything different ( and I'm not saying this is you). But it's like Rob Liefeld keeps getting work despite being considered a poor artist by much of fandom, but no one thinks it's because someone care more about politics than quality. Rivera hands in bad work and it's because someone's pushing an agenda.

    You're right about Christopher Priest, he felt that after getting critical acclaim for Black Panther, he was being typecast as a "black" writer despite having worked on characters such as Spiderman, Capt America, and Batman. Both Marvel and DC did this to him over the last several years. Stereotyping people by race is hardly unique to SJWs.

  9. #279
    Fantastic Member Lutecius's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ed2962 View Post
    I'm sure they thought Rivera would bring a unique voice to the title. It didn't work and that happens. It's not unique to SJWs.

    I brought the other thing up because subconsciously/consciously a lot of us think straight white male in comics as the default. And some people think there needs to be special justification for anything different ( and I'm not saying this is you). But it's like Rob Liefeld keeps getting work despite being considered a poor artist by much of fandom, but no one thinks it's because someone care more about politics than quality. Rivera hands in bad work and it's because someone's pushing an agenda.

    You're right about Christopher Priest, he felt that after getting critical acclaim for Black Panther, he was being typecast as a "black" writer despite having worked on characters such as Spiderman, Capt America, and Batman. Both Marvel and DC did this to him over the last several years. Stereotyping people by race is hardly unique to SJWs.
    You say this like the Rivera and Priest situations weren't a reaction from companies to those who constantly question the legitimacy of white males writing minority or female characters. Do you honestly think Rivera was hired for her comicbook writing chops and not because a certain crowd demanded a queer Latina to be written by a queer Latina?
    The book was hailed all over mainstream and activist media for this very reason. As for the anti-white politics in the book itself, they're not exactly subtle and can't be misread when they so closely match the author's rants on twitter.
    So of course people aren't going to see this the same way as a random straight white male (which happens to be the majority demographic in the genre) writing a straight white superhero.
    Last edited by Lutecius; 03-13-2018 at 09:34 AM.

  10. #280
    Fantastic Member Harsh Lesson's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lutecius View Post
    You say this like the Rivera and Priest situations weren't a reaction from companies to those who constantly question the legitimacy of white males writing minority or female characters. Do you honestly think Rivera was hired for her comicbook writing chops and not because a certain crowd demanded a queer Latina to be written by a queer Latina?
    The book was hailed all over mainstream and activist media for this very reason. As for the anti-white politics in the book itself, they're not exactly subtle and can't be misread when they so closely match the author's rants on twitter.
    So of course people aren't going to see this the same way as a random straight white male (which happens to be the majority demographic in the genre) writing a straight white superhero.
    What anti-white politics?

  11. #281
    Fantastic 4ever Kirby Krackle's Avatar
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    Is this thread even about the new Sentry book anymore?
    Marvel Pull - Amazing Spider-Man, Captain America, Fantastic Four, The Immortal Hulk, Marvel Two-In-One
    DC Pull - Action Comics, Justice League, Supergirl, Superman

  12. #282

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    I empathize with Priest not wanting to be typecast. But I also wish he'd give it a second thought/embrace the label. It's like when someone becomes famous for making a really good horror movie but spend all of their energy distancing themselves from the association. It, generally, doesn't lead to the writer/director being known for other genre. And it pisses off the horror fans. There were a lot of black characters who could have benefited from Priest's imagination. We need minority writers who know and love Marvel continuity. But it's rare due to decades of marketing to a very narrow segment of the population.
    Quote Originally Posted by somacula View Post
    Because its fun, not as fun as the liberal meltdown but close
    11/10/2016

  13. #283

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    Quote Originally Posted by Enzeru View Post
    They're an issue. They entirely made me stop reading Marvel comics for the last few years.
    I believe that writers should be hired based on merit and not on their skin color / gender / sexual orientation. But look what we got with America Chavez, the female Hawkeye, Homo-Iceman and many others. Terribly written books by terribly racist people.
    Yea I agree with Tendrin. May have to part ways on this too... Me myself who always claimed Marvel has not been TRUE to pushing the minority characters they already have. I know what you mean but you are not saying the wrong way. We should keep the politics out of this thread.
    Last edited by Golden Guardian of Good; 03-13-2018 at 10:53 AM.

  14. #284

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    Quote Originally Posted by numberthirty View Post
    Even if he does, that being the way it stays isn't a lock.

    They pretty well wiped out everything he did in Moon Knight.
    Never followed Moon Knight. What did they do?

  15. #285
    Amazing Member Enzeru's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by KidStranglehold View Post

    Never followed Moon Knight. What did they do?
    Jeff Lemire had established some dramatic changes to the Moon Knight mythology regarding his supporting cast (like for example his psychiatrist) and the Moon god Khonshu. He left it slightly ambiguous in the end, that it might have been just a delusion... but in the end it did feel like all of those plot twists were real. The Moon Knight stories would have had to move into a different direction from that point on. But the most recent series is back to the status quo, without really tackling the prior 14 issues.

    At least I think that's what the other poster meant.

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