The Elements of Magic in the DCU

[Agent Z]

She's leading Justice League Dark right now, but it's an odd fit for me. (Despite my enjoyment of the first issue.) I get that Diana got her powers from divinity, whether from currently being biologically a demigod and Amazon and bestowed gifts from other gods, but I think of the latter as sort of transmuting her biology into being superpowered and not necessarily being magical in the way Circe or Zatanna or Doctor Fate or Wotan are magical and channel magical energies.

Diana's lasso is an enchanted weapon and that's about it for me. She's not a spellcaster.

None of the characters besides Zatanna is. Swamp Thing is a plant elemental, Detective Chimp is a talking monkey who gained the power of speech by drinking from the Fountain of Youth and Man-Bat's powers aren't even from a magical source. Many of DC's mystic based characters aren't spell casters. They don't have to be in order to fit in that type of story.

[Shockingjustice]

Hmmm. Kind of like a wifi router. I think you may be on to something. But would it effect people in other universes as well? If everyone else is drawing power from The Red, would that effect my powers if i were on Earth-30 or something?

I feel like those other universes should have there own variation of those rules so it wouldn't mess with current continuity.

[Denirac]

None of the characters besides Zatanna is. Swamp Thing is a plant elemental, Detective Chimp is a talking monkey who gained the power of speech by drinking from the Fountain of Youth and Man-Bat's powers aren't even from a magical source. Many of DC's mystic based characters aren't spell casters. They don't have to be in order to fit in that type of story.

*Both Zee and Constantine are

[Shockingjustice]

I heard over in the Shazam thread that Johns is introducing 7 magical realms. Does anyone think those my have an effect on the magic users?

[AJpyro]

WHenever I think of magic, I think of Gaiman's Books of Magic. Though the supernatural going ons in Hellblazer and Saga of ST helped too. ABove all, there is always a price for what to create.

Also I just found out about Jakeem Thunder. Dude's got a literal Genie that goes through a Worf/Lowering Power effect.

[Ascended]

I heard over in the Shazam thread that Johns is introducing 7 magical realms. Does anyone think those my have an effect on the magic users?

Well, I dunno if it'll have any major ripple effects across the magical landscape, but if any writer was going to do that and pull it off it'd be Johns.

The new Sandman imprint could (and likely should) be the cornerstone for all things magic (and the systems magic moves in) but I feel like DC is going to keep those titles firmly sequestered in their own corner and not let them spread too far.

[Shockingjustice]

Well, I dunno if it'll have any major ripple effects across the magical landscape, but if any writer was going to do that and pull it off it'd be Johns.

The new Sandman imprint could (and likely should) be the cornerstone for all things magic (and the systems magic moves in) but I feel like DC is going to keep those titles firmly sequestered in their own corner and not let them spread too far.

How does the magic work in those books. Is it worth a read?

[WonderScott]

Hmmm. Kind of like a wifi router. I think you may be on to something. But would it effect people in other universes as well? If everyone else is drawing power from The Red, would that effect my powers if i were on Earth-30 or something?

Perhaps - I hadn't considered making the sources from multiversal "wells" versus universal "wells." That's interesting, but I also like that magic might be different on different multiversal Earths too and leaving that door open creatively.

[WonderScott]

None of the characters besides Zatanna is. Swamp Thing is a plant elemental, Detective Chimp is a talking monkey who gained the power of speech by drinking from the Fountain of Youth and Man-Bat's powers aren't even from a magical source. Many of DC's mystic based characters aren't spell casters. They don't have to be in order to fit in that type of story.

Yeah, it's not an issue of whether or not they fit that type of story (because I think these characters can operate in many types of stories), but it's more that it's a team that, in some cases, gained their powers via mystical or magical means, but aren't a magic users in terms of controlling those types of energies themselves.

It's an interesting collection of teammates and I'm curious where they head with it because of that. When I said "odd" I didn't necessarily mean it's bad or shouldn't be done.

[WonderScott]

I heard over in the Shazam thread that Johns is introducing 7 magical realms. Does anyone think those my have an effect on the magic users?

I wonder if it could, but I'd guess it'll be stuff Johns develops and then people might piggyback on if popular versus him laying out the new take on or status quo on magic in the DCU.

(Regardless, I hope we go to Gemworld on the Shazam journey and Amethyst and Billy hit it off. I've been wanting to write a romance between them for years.)

[WonderScott]

WHenever I think of magic, I think of Gaiman's Books of Magic. Though the supernatural going ons in Hellblazer and Saga of ST helped too. ABove all, there is always a price for what to create.

Also I just found out about Jakeem Thunder. Dude's got a literal Genie that goes through a Worf/Lowering Power effect.

I like the paying a price factor or balance factor for some magic and am definitely working that into the system I'm thinking about.

I'll admit that I'm stuck on the nature of the Thundebolt's, Mxy's, Bat-Mite's, and any natural inhabitant of the 5th Dimension's powers. While it may appear like magic on Prime Earth (or other multiversal Earths), I'm kind of leaning toward an alternate explanation for their powers that doesn't tap into the magical sources I'm defining.

I need to dive into reading some more theoretical physics to explain the Imps's abilities.

[WonderScott]

Well, I dunno if it'll have any major ripple effects across the magical landscape, but if any writer was going to do that and pull it off it'd be Johns.

The new Sandman imprint could (and likely should) be the cornerstone for all things magic (and the systems magic moves in) but I feel like DC is going to keep those titles firmly sequestered in their own corner and not let them spread too far.

Agreed about Johns and about the Sandman imprint.

It feels like DC has only ever lightly played around with connections between the DCU and Sandman universe and it's probably for the best. I'd rather the DCU have and develop their own Puck, Titania, Oberon, etc.

[Agent Z]

I would like to see a more "scientific" approach to magic in that we see people repeatedly studying it and finding new applications.

Also, I don't care for the concept of homo magi. What's the point if magic can already be learned?

[WonderScott]

I would like to see a more "scientific" approach to magic in that we see people repeatedly studying it and finding new applications.

Also, I don't care for the concept of homo magi. What's the point if magic can already be learned?

That’s an aspect that I think could be really interesting in the DCU - where does science end (if it does) and where does magic begin and/or how are they different when Shazam summons lightning versus Live Wire.

I’m my head they’re different and that’s what I want to sort out. I’m not against Homo Magi as a concept (I’d like to bring Sindella back), given the existence of metahumans. I might just make them more innately attuned to a couple of types of magic versus the normal, average human.

Another aspect to sort out is how humans, like Jason Blood or Felix Faust, gained magical knowledge via study and practice. (For Jason it may also stem out of his curse as the Demon, so he’s probably a bad example.

[kjn]

That’s an aspect that I think could be really interesting in the DCU - where does science end (if it does) and where does magic begin and/or how are they different when Shazam summons lightning versus Live Wire.

I've read quite a bit of sf and fantasy, and when I think about it now it seems it's not so much an objective border between the two. It's rather a subjective difference in the outlook,i.e. it's more if the observer decides to see it as magic or as science. That makes it rather tricky to handle in a narrative.