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  1. #16
    Notorious M.O.S. Kuwagaton's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Robotman View Post
    I think by the end they both met in the below average range. I’d give them both around a C+ or B-.
    For the record also, I'm not looking at this academically where a "B" is borderline accepted, but like "C" would be average. So "D" is below average, where the good stops outweighing the bad.

  2. #17
    Spectacular Member Embryonic Superman's Avatar
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    They brought me back to Superman. They made me get excited about the published history of Superman in the same way Grant Morrison made me obsess over every square inch of Batman lore for a solid seven years. I'd argue they did a near impossible feat, and that's push Superman and the franchise's mythos forward in a way that hasn't been done for 20 years while also walking back from the New 52 reboot, salvaging almost all of the Post-Crisis history in the process while leaving enough wiggle room to allow and acknowledge the New 52 still happened (from a certain point of view). Unfortunately, this meant having to play continuity cop, spending long amounts of time repairing the damage left behind from Truth and dealing with convoluted concepts like the main characters being Hypertime refugees. Still, in my opinion, this is the most enjoyable Superman has been on a week-to-week basis since the mid-1990s. I'll always be grateful for their runs, and I'm hoping Bendis stays true to his word of honoring the last two years.

  3. #18
    Fantastic Member Chubistian's Avatar
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    Tomasi & Gleason' s Superman (I put them both since they crafted the stories together):Overall, it was a great run. Some stories were unappealing or dissapointing, but just one was reaaaaally bad (the one where Clark, Lois and Jon travel through the US, very propagandistic imo and not really a topic I care about, especially not being from the US). It's highs were damn good, my favorite arcs were the first one (counting also issue 7 as a kind of aftermath) and Black Dawn, the annual with Swamp Thing was one of my favorites one and done. The art most of the time was handled by Jimenez, Mahnke and Gleason, a nice mix of very good pencillers, and people who supported them with inks and colours also did an esplendid job, saldy I don't remember who handled most of the time those aspects of the comics.

    Jurgens: At best, mediocre, I had to dropped this after not getting something more than "that was ok" out of it. If you can barely make me enjoy a story with Mongul, Zod and Cyborg Superman, you're definitely not my kind of writer. Everything felt so 90s but without its charisma. The art was pretty irregular, but it had some good artists from time to time. Overall, an underwhelming run
    Last edited by Chubistian; 03-07-2018 at 09:33 PM.
    "The Batman is Gotham City. I will watch him. Study him. And when I know him and why he does not kill, I will know this city. And then Gotham will be MINE!"-BANE

    "We're monsters, buddy. Plain and simple. I don't dress it up with fancy names like mutant or post-human; men were born crueler than Apes and we were born crueler than men. It's just the natural order of things"-ULTIMATE SABRETOOTH

  4. #19
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    I will remember Tomasi and Gleasons run to be the best run on superman for the 2010's. Jurgens was okay but will be looked back in a better light if bendis messes this up. He hasn't been good since 2005 you can say he was burnt out in marvel so let us see what he will do with dc's flagship character good or bad for those who want to give him the benefit of the doubt

  5. #20
    Fantastic Member Lvenger's Avatar
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    I'll definitely hold warm feelings towards the Rebirth era of Superman comics. They restored and revitalised a Superman that I couldn't stay invested in during the New 52. Jurgens, Tomasi and Gleason helped establish a stable status quo and a consistent baseline for the Superman comics to work from. That alone was a major improvement but they also delivered some great stories to boot.

    Jurgens' run was overall decent but it certainly started off weaker than it is now I think. Jurgens had to deal with the continuity baggage of Superman, Lois and Jon being refugees from the Pre 52 universe so his Pre Reborn stories probably suffered for it due to all the references and knitting together he had to juggle. Still, Path of Doom was alright and Men of Steel was actually quite a good read. After Reborn and the New World 2 parter, I think Jurgens' improved overall. Revenge is a fantastic story due to Zod and Cyborg Superman, Williams' fill in issues were good and Booster Shot has been a fun and entertaining arc. However, a lot of Jurgens' run dragged due to exposition, repeated dialogue and the Mr Oz reveal so I wouldn't have minded if he was replaced post Action Comics #1000 by someone other than Bendis. Still, Jurgens was the one who brought back the Superman most fans wanted so he deserves credit for that.

    Tomasi and Gleason's run is much better however probably because they didn't have to deal with the continuity baggage till Reborn. Son of Superman, Our Town, Escape from Dinosaur Island and the Superman Annual with Swamp Thing have been some of the best Superman comics in years. The first few months of Superman Rebirth were a glorious time to be a Superman fan. I kept enjoying their run up until Black Dawn but I do think it lost some steam afterwards. Between multiple filler issues and that rubbish Road Trip arc, that impacted the momentum of their run. Imperius Lex and Super Sons of Tomorrow were decent and enjoyable but nowhere near as enjoyable as the first 25 issues. As for criticisms that this series was too focused on Jon, I admit Jon took up a lot of pages suffice to say, but this has ultimately helped the Superman comics overall by examining Superman as a father and how he would raise his son. It looks like Bizarroverse is recapturing that A game talent though so at least Tomasi and Gleason's run may end on a high note. It deserves to go down as one of the most enjoyable and accessible Superman runs in recent history.

    Also I'll throw some appreciation to the Rebirth Superman artists for their contributions. Patch Zircher, Patrick Gleason, Jorge Jiminez, Doug Mankhe and Will Conrad to name a few have done fantastic work on the Superman comics.

  6. #21
    Notorious M.O.S. Kuwagaton's Avatar
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    It definitely looks like they are ending strong. I think one way or the other, these final stories will influence my initial thoughts.

    And for what it's worth, when I go backwards I think Convergence #0, Convergence: Superman #1-2, and Lois and Clark help my overall impression of Jurgens. Seeing all that stuff, I didn't feel burdened by his exploration of the "alternate reality Superman" idea. The New 52 Superman could have gotten a cleaner resolution and could still have a stronger legacy than he has currently, but those don't really bug me now.

  7. #22
    Incredible Member WallyWestFlash's Avatar
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    Here's my two cents.

    Action Comics has been awesome. I'm personally a big fan of Jurgens and I think the triangle era in the 90's are the best Superman comics ever. Especially Jurgens stuff.
    So I really like his writing and his Superman .

    With this run specifically I really enjoyed it and Action Comics is at the top of the Rebirth books, (with Hal Jordan),in general for me .
    The Doomsday story was OK. Men of steel , Reborn with creepy Clark, and the Revenge squad were all awesome. Oz effect was not so good and Booster shot had it's bright spots.

    My one big complaint though was it was way too padded. Every arc was six issues needlessly . Didn't need to drag out so much and it would hurt the pacing and story sometimes

    But overall, great stories bringing back great characters with over reaching sub plots as comics should have. He really let Lois shine and put Jon as a supporting character as he should be .

    So over all really good but not perfect . A-

    On the other hand Superman I didn't really like. Don't really care for the super cartooney Gleason art. WAY too much Jon. He's alright but I'm reading this for Superman. Clark became a background character in his own book sometimes. I understand in the beginning establishing him but it's just went on.

    The stories themselves were disappointing and not that great. Son of Superman was OK. Dino island was meh. Frankenstein was pretty good. Multiplicity was a BIG disappointment. Black Dawn started off well buy just became a confusing mess. The best stories Were the ones NOT written by Tomasi , the Sinestro and Deathstroke ones. Imperius Rex , weird beginning and disappointing ending. The middle was cool though and that Lois issue amazing. But nothing came out of that whole thing with Lex and Apokolips. And that last End of Days was one of the worst things I ever read.

    I did like though that it had shorter runs. Sometimes 2-3 issues. That was good to get away from that decompression that so many books had.

    Overall did not look forward to this book coming out and definitely wasn't super excited for it to come out like Action Comics. It was still better than the last Superman run, new 52, though in that it was actually Superman in the book. My grading is a C.
    Last edited by WallyWestFlash; 03-12-2018 at 08:24 AM.

  8. #23
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    Superman was great in the beginning and then kinda ran out of steam, and I think there's a couple reasons for this:

    1) When I spoke to Tomasi at NYCC I asked him about the double ship schedule and he said it was KILLING him and Gleason. This seems to be right around when we started getting fill-in arcs and lends credence to his statement.

    2) As time went on Jimenez started doing less Superman interiors, first because of work on Super Sons, and then he got pulled from that to work on Metal one-shots and other things. Same is true with Super Sons, I've loved it and Tomasi has been great on it, but again once Jimenez started doing less interiors it's felt weaker.

    3) Gleason started doing less interior work also, and we ended up getting more Mahnke, who IMO was OK when he was in a rotation of 3 artists, but when he was doing a lot on his own it was sub-par.


    As for Action Comics by Jurgens, I originally thought it was meh, but I came to realize Jurgens is more of a "consistently ok" kind of guy, rather than any real blow-out amazing arc kind of writer. Once i saw him as that I appreciated Action more

  9. #24
    Spectacular Member Earth-2 Refugee's Avatar
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    I didn't read Action so I won't say anything there. As for Superman, I'll say it's been a bumpy road.

    Son of Superman: Absolutely terrible
    Issue 7: One of the best comics I've read in my opinion
    Return to Dinosaur Island: Alright, nothing special
    In the Name of the Father: Good
    Earth to Earth, Ashes to Ashes: Really Good
    Sinister Purpose: Alright or Good, unsure
    Multiplicity: Had the potential to be amazing, but just wasn't
    Dark Harvest: Alright
    Reborn: Terrible
    Black Dawn: Good
    Road Trip: Worst comic I've ever read
    Fear Itself: Bad
    Imperius Lex: Thought it'd be great, but it was terrible
    Super Sons of Tomorrow: First issue was great, after it just got terrible
    Issue 39: Boring and bad
    Suicide Planet: Alright
    BOYzarro: One issue in, but alright getting annoyed with the Bizarro speech. It's confusing with how many negatives they use. Needs to be toned down since I think there were some double negatives in there.

  10. #25
    All-New Member Pooty's Avatar
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    Action: Alright.

    Superman: Truly great.

  11. #26
    Fantastic 4ever Kirby Krackle's Avatar
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    Action Comics: It's has it's ups and down. More ups than downs, thankfully. The art is really my biggest gripe since it felt inconsistent at times. I did love Super-Lex the entire way through.

    Superman: One of my favorite runs in a LOOOOOONG time. The emphasis on Superman as a family man has been beyond wonderful.
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  12. #27
    Notorious M.O.S. Kuwagaton's Avatar
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    The Rebirth era itself has been ending on a high note and as I suspected, my view of things are changing for the better. Even Trinity had two of my favorite recent moments




  13. #28
    Incredible Member Black Angel's Avatar
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    Superman B-

    Action B+

  14. #29
    Incredible Member RepHope's Avatar
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    Wow we're really at the end of the Rebirth runs huh? Crazy how fast time flew.

    I've loved the Tomasi/Gleason run overall, and this final arc is giving them a strong finish. Boyzarro Redeath is going to be one of my favorite Bizarro arcs if issue 45 can knock it out of the park. I've loved the focus on Superman, Lois, and Jon. I loved that they used characters like Frankenstein, Manchester Black, and created new ones like Kathy. But the filler was pretty terrible, and the Imperious Lex arc was nowhere near as strong as it could've been. Despite that I think they've done a good job giving Bendis a strong foundation to hit the ground running. So I give it an A- overall.

    Jurgens was peaks and valleys. When he was on fire he was really pushing Supes forward. I loved how he utilized the Superman Revenge Squad. I think Blanque could be a great "Joker" for Clark and I hope he gets more use. I love his Cyborg Superman (no surprise considering he made him!) and his Zod. I love how he handled Civil War II's premise in the Men of Steel arc better than Bendis did. I really enjoyed his Booster Gold arc, and I loved that he explored the ethics of the PZ. But on the other hand Path of Doom dragged on for too long, and the Oz arc was pretty mediocre (although I loved that shot at the end with Clark hearing everything all over the world). So overall I give Jurgens a B+.

    I'm excited as hell to see AC 1000 and Superman 45, and then the specials. Tomasi going back to Dinosaur Island? Jurgens handling Luthor's "redemption" (one of the strongest parts of his run)? Count me in for both. I hope Bendis does a great job and DC doesn't need to call them back to do ANOTHER clean-up.

  15. #30
    Ultimate Member Sacred Knight's Avatar
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    I will say, while the era wasn't really for me at the end of the day, it does please me when I see people who catch onto and fall for the character during a certain era. I like seeing new fans come aboard regardless what I as an oldster may feel.
    "They can be a great people Kal-El, they wish to be. They only lack the light to show the way. For this reason above all, their capacity for good, I have sent them you. My only son." - Jor-El

    "Now why don't we step up here and everybody get stepped up, and let's get some stepped up personal space up in this place." - Phillip Jacobs

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