Nightwing: Can He Flourish In a Limited Location?

[Dzetoun]

Some of us have been disappointed by the Rebirth Nightwing, and the discussion in large part has centered on Bludhaven. The new Bludhaven is much more interesting than the old, but the stories told in Rebirth Nightwing have been largely pedestrian, particularly those involving Bludhaven.

Do you think Nightwing can flourish as a hero in a specific location as Batman does in Gotham or Superman in Metropolis? Undoubtedly his years in Bludhaven anchored the character and saved him after the Teen Titans fell apart in the early 1990s, but they rapidly ran their course and eventually even DC decided to give up and blow up the city (literally). Nightwing has not flourished in Gotham, and his time in Chicago started in a promising way but soon came to nought. Grayson was a creative success, but involved ditching the entire "hero of a city" concept.

Has he just never had the right city? Has he never had the right creative team to realize his city? Is he inhibited by his past, so that any attempt to link him to a city makes him, inevitably, turn into a cheerful Batman? Or has the time of heroes and cities passed, with Batman and Superman the last, atypical, examples of a faded tradition?

[Pohzee]

I really dunno.

I've liked some of the times when Dick has been rooted down- to Gotham as Robin, to Hudson in university, and Gotham again as Batman. I've also liked the times that he globetrots with purpose as part of an organization, operating out of Titans Tower, housing at Saint Hadrian's as a Spyral Agent, and cooperating with the Parliament of Owls in the first arc of Nightwing Rebirth.

The problem lies equally in Blüdhaven and the Nightwing mantle. As Nightwing, in Blüdhaven, Dick is pretty much set up for Daredevil-Lite/Batman-lite stories. He'll never outshine either doing his best impression of someone else. He just ends up with second-rate, mediocre stories. It's pretty telling that most Dick fans prefer stories from when he was Batman, Robin, and Agent 37 to when he was Nightwing.

I think that the concept of Nightwing as DC sees him is fundamentally boring and limiting. They really missed a beat in not continuing with his spy role when he returned to the costume. That would have provided him with a unique niche.

[Frontier]

I'm probably not someone who should be asked this question since I enjoyed Dixon's run and Seeley's Bludhaven issues, but I feel Dick is less limited by a city, and Bludhaven itself is less limited, then the writing is.

But I'm someone who wish we had more Batman books like Seeley's Bludhaven stories, so what do I know?

[Caivu]

As long as he gets adequate sunlight and water, sure.

[SiegePerilous02]

I don't think he ever has, and I don't think he ever can. They've had a couple decades to make it work, but it hasn't yet. No city he ever lives in will come close to Gotham, particularly when they try to make it a pale imitation. New York is a good location for him, but only with the Titans. Doing a solo crime fighter act there would be just as bad. Rebirth Bludhaven is better than the previous version, but not by much. The better arcs early on were when he wasn't in the city, which is where the author's interests lied.

I think as Nightwing, they need to forgo the "single hero battling a rogues gallery in a single city" stuff because it has never worked. Make his rogues gallery global and varied, able to pop up anywhere from various corners of the DCU. If he ever inherits the role of Gotham's primary protector from a retired/dead Bruce, that should be the only time he settles down. Until then, have him hop around. Keep it interesting and leave the Bludhaven shackles behind.

[DGraysonWorldsGreatestSpy]

I agree that the standard protect one city trope doesn't work for Dick Grayson since he is so connected, IF Bat Group/Editorial didn't try to separate him from the Titans + Retcon his achievements with the Titans + Start off his initial solo and many comics later by constantly comparing him to Batman/ensure he is Second but not on par then Nightwing could have actually built a city that defined him and allowed for him to showcase his connection to the Greater DCU. He has constantly been stuck between Being Batman's second in command as Nightwing while with the Titans he is a leader so hence why he has more commercial success while with Batman he is relegated to support constantly.
Bludhaven is nice but honestly he should be allowed to walk the line between the Surface World and Realms, Dick Grayson IMO has always been a POV character first to humanize and brighten up Batman and show him communicating with someone to relay the reader and with the New Teen Titans the were centralized in New York but had no problem traveling from Dimensions, to Rogue Countries, or Space and Grayson/Batman Reborn captured that with him as a world traveling Spy and him taking over a Post-Batman Gotham for a while. Bludhaven has been shined up with Casinos and location but honestly Dick Grayson will always be a failure operating playing the Normal Guy/Secret Superhero because all the cast are so interchangeable being cast off and sometimes brought back. Blockbuster is a hand me down villain and he has not had a real good original as Nightwing until Raptor who is now dead, The Judge has started off good but fizzled with his constant having one over Dick with no clear reason how his powers work or what is his ultimate plan while Dick beats him up on constantly failing. Percy while not given much hype with Green Lantern did produce a 40 issue run that had him both in a city and operate around the country so their is hope. The Horror setting may be unusual but Black Mirror was kind of a Nightmare comic and if Percy can capture and expand on Dick voice in that book as Nightwing this run could be good.

[Godlike13]

I think they need to tell better stories.

[JasonTodd428]

This was something I said in a conversation with Dzetoun regarding Nightwing so I'll just leave it here.

To be honest with you I've never liked the concept of Bludhaven nor the idea that Dick needs to be tied to a city in order to function as Nightwing. I've always felt that because of his circus background he should be the one Bat that was a globetrotting hero doing what needs doing in different locations each story arc. That's what I found extremely appealing about Grayson. Unfortunately, the majority wants him in a city and wants that city to be Bludhaven and also wants him to stay Nightwing or they simply won't read it. It's frustrating to me though because I think that's exactly what is holding the character back and it's doing nothing to expand Dick's world either. I still wish they had taken a risk after Grayson was over and set Dick up as the head of the spy corner of the DCU instead of the nonsense we got with Titans and Nightwing.

To be honest I don't think that Nightwing necessarily NEEDS Bludhaven (or any other city for that matter) to flourish as a character. Grayson pretty much proved that the character can work on a much wider stage than a single city. What he needs are writers that can expand his world and can develop his character in interesting and different directions without destroying his core.

[dan12456]

I don't think the city is the issue. I think the issue is that they've never given him a consistent and interesting supporting cast in the city.
Gotham isn't really interesting on its own. Gotham is interesting cause of Gordon, Joker, Alfred, Falcone, The Court of Owls, etc. All characters that make the city FEEL interesting. Dick has never had that in a single city imo. He gets Blockbuster and a bunch of side characters and villains treated like they are temporary, rather than treated like important parts of the city.
IMO that's why Chicago felt so interesting, it was populated by interesting people until editorial decided to ruin it.

[K Nikk]

I don't think the city is the issue. I think the issue is that they've never given him a consistent and interesting supporting cast in the city.
Gotham isn't really interesting on its own. Gotham is interesting cause of Gordon, Joker, Alfred, Falcone, The Court of Owls, etc. All characters that make the city FEEL interesting. Dick has never had that in a single city imo. He gets Blockbuster and a bunch of side characters and villains treated like they are temporary, rather than treated like important parts of the city.
IMO that's why Chicago felt so interesting, it was populated by interesting people until editorial decided to ruin it.

I agree with this - regarding the supporting cast/rogue's gallery. There is something so charismatic about Dick that seeing him with people he trusts or who he has a report with, and where we can understand really well the relationship, shows that off really well. It sort of feels like he's the guy who would be chatting during a fight, and shines when he can have people to banter with. Maybe that just takes time (and resolve) to build up. I think all that can work in Bludhaven.

[Barbatos666]

I don't think the city is the issue. I think the issue is that they've never given him a consistent and interesting supporting cast in the city.
Gotham isn't really interesting on its own. Gotham is interesting cause of Gordon, Joker, Alfred, Falcone, The Court of Owls, etc. All characters that make the city FEEL interesting. Dick has never had that in a single city imo. He gets Blockbuster and a bunch of side characters and villains treated like they are temporary, rather than treated like important parts of the city.
IMO that's why Chicago felt so interesting, it was populated by interesting people until editorial decided to ruin it.

Chicago was interesting? Prankster and Zucco cant really be said to be better than Blockbuster and Judge, I'd even say they're worse by far.