Nightwing: Can He Flourish In a Limited Location?

[WonderNight]

He should takeover the Oblivion Bar call it W.O.N.D.E.R. Bar or Nexus Bar and use the sunken city of Bludhaven to establish trade with Skartaris, Pytharia, Myrra, Gemworld.

or he could call it The Flying Grayson, or Graysons or the Spyral.

[K Nikk]

that's what l've been saying. Dick grayson the 21 year old pettyboy son of a former (bruce is getting married) playboy and billionaire in a vegas style city should be the owner of a high end nightcllub/bar. this way as a owner he is free when he needs to be there is no way dick can have a full 9 to 5 a titan and solo. his club would allow guess stars like zatanna and vixen and clark and bruce to show up also.

absolutely agree with you! That would be a fun series to have that kind of tone! And the villains could have that old fashion exaggerated dramatic characteristic because they would sort of "fit in" in that kind of city. And the colleagues would be show-kids-grown-up like himself!

[OBrianTallent]

Having Grayson own a club and call it Spyral would be hilarious!! I like the idea of Dick owning a nightclub/bar now.

As for Bludhaven, it's more about the writing and how fans accept it. Like the person above, there are too many who will always look at him as "Batman-lite" or "Daredevil-lite" despite anything else. Bludhaven can work and has. Dixon made it work fairly well early on. Likewise, I liked the idea of Dick living in an apartment building, it gave him a set of supporting characters that weren't involved in his other life (for the most part.) I think that's when Dick and Bludhaven work best...when he has others he can play off of and interact with. I love Dick as a fun loving world traveler, but I think he works best in a stable setting that can play off his wanderlust and search for family.

[oasis1313]

that's what l've been saying. Dick grayson the 21 year old pettyboy son of a former (bruce is getting married) playboy and billionaire in a vegas style city should be the owner of a high end nightcllub/bar. this way as a owner he is free when he needs to be there is no way dick can have a full 9 to 5 a titan and solo. his club would allow guess stars like zatanna and vixen and clark and bruce to show up also.

I would agree that Dick cannot hold a 9-to-5 job or anything requiring appointments (such as being a personal trainer to some people who frequent the gym he's fronting)--IF he wants to be Nightwing. I'd suggest that the Batman Inc idea be a template for the rest of the Bat-Family currently congregating in Gotham or its suburbs (like Bludhaven). The VERY short-lived notion of Dick becoming the curator of a museum owned by Bruce Wayne was an excellent one--it set him up for all kind of in-town or globe-trotting adventures; besides, a head museum curator doesn't have to punch a time-clock and nobody really expects any work out of him.

[Badou]

They can change location or try to fix up Bludhaven again but the same problems will always be there I think. When you anchor him to a single location you lose what makes Dick a unique character. He's at his best when he has the freedom to move around. He is a child of the circus. That is what defines his character. Movement and freedom. Tying him to a city for him to protect limits him as a character and puts him in a box and a role that other heroes already do and do much better. So it feels like he becomes just a lesser version of those characters.

As for Bludhaven specifically no matter how hard they try Bludhaven will never define Dick as a character. It just doesn't have the impact. It doesn't matter if they make it a casino town or a worse Gotham. It just doesn't have the deep rooted connection to Dick that you need. Batman was created in Gotham and it forms his identity. Same with Spider-man in NYC and Daredevil in Hell's Kitchen. These are location that defined those heroes and formed their hero identity. Bludhaven has never been that for Dick. He is from a circus, created Robin in Gotham, and created Nightwing in the Teen Titans. So when they say Bludhaven is his "home" or "defines" him it just doesn't connect with me. These are foundational problems that I don't think will ever be fixed. It is why writer after writer has failed to make it work because every writer is working from a foundation that is broken.

There is also the problem that there is nothing in Bludhaven too. None of the characters created there are that interesting. Same with the stories. It is all just so forgettable or unmemorable. The concept doesn't inspire creative stories. It is also not important enough to bring in any big top tier villains to operate in Bludhaven to challenge Dick as they are obviously better used elsewhere. Blockbuster is a dull grand nemesis and was only brought in originally to act as his Kingpin to Dick's Daredevil. There is just nothing about the concept that is unique to Dick or makes him stand out.

[JasonTodd428]

They can change location or try to fix up Bludhaven again but the same problems will always be there I think. When you anchor him to a single location you lose what makes Dick a unique character. He's at his best when he has the freedom to move around. He is a child of the circus. That is what defines his character. Movement and freedom. Tying him to a city for him to protect limits him as a character and puts him in a box and a role that other heroes already do and do much better. So it feels like he becomes just a lesser version of those characters.

As for Bludhaven specifically no matter how hard they try Bludhaven will never define Dick as a character. It just doesn't have the impact. It doesn't matter if they make it a casino town or a worse Gotham. It just doesn't have the deep rooted connection to Dick that you need. Batman was created in Gotham and it forms his identity. Same with Spider-man in NYC and Daredevil in Hell's Kitchen. These are location that defined those heroes and formed their hero identity. Bludhaven has never been that for Dick. He is from a circus, created Robin in Gotham, and created Nightwing in the Teen Titans. So when they say Bludhaven is his "home" or "defines" him it just doesn't connect with me. These are foundational problems that I don't think will ever be fixed. It is why writer after writer has failed to make it work because every writer is working from a foundation that is broken.

There is also the problem that there is nothing in Bludhaven too. None of the characters created there are that interesting. Same with the stories. It is all just so forgettable or unmemorable. The concept doesn't inspire creative stories. It is also not important enough to bring in any big top tier villains to operate in Bludhaven to challenge Dick as they are obviously better used elsewhere. Blockbuster is a dull grand nemesis and was only brought in originally to act as his Kingpin to Dick's Daredevil. There is just nothing about the concept that is unique to Dick or makes him stand out.

I agree with all that you said here and it goes along with what I've always thought about Dick Grayson as a character. For me the circus and the movement and freedom that implies are what define Dick Grayson. He's not someone that sits still and that's exactly what I feel putting him in a city like Bludhaven forces him to do.

[K Nikk]

One thing I really like about Grayson was the anchor of the school. That was an important "home" base - and felt like he was tied to that location in a way. But he had interesting characters to regularly interact with and develop. So I wouldn't want a series with Nightwing to do away completely with an anchoring location even if his suited-up activities are worldly. Even a travelling circus has the circus move with them - the circus grounds itself is like an anchored location, it just moves with the characters and the surroundings change. That collection of people that get gradual development throughout a series by being in that anchored "location" helps I think. Maybe that location could be a team that travels with him... but sort of want to see him outside of a team environment, so i'd prefer that those characters are associated with Grayson's life and not with Nightwing's.

Or I don't know what I want! so many of the ideas here sound pretty cool.

[JasonTodd428]

To use your analogy I don't have a problem at all with Nightwing having an "anchor location" like he had with the school in Grayson. I don't feel that's what the writers are doing with the concept of having Nightwing in a city like Bludhaven. What I feel they are doing with the idea of Bludhaven is to have him actually rooted in the city in the same manner Bruce is rooted in Gotham and I've just never felt he needed to be rooted anywhere. I think that limits the stories you can tell and that it can lead too character stagnation. Everyone's mileage may vary on that of course.

[Barbatos666]

I don't think the city is the issue. I think the issue is that they've never given him a consistent and interesting supporting cast in the city.
Gotham isn't really interesting on its own. Gotham is interesting cause of Gordon, Joker, Alfred, Falcone, The Court of Owls, etc. All characters that make the city FEEL interesting. Dick has never had that in a single city imo. He gets Blockbuster and a bunch of side characters and villains treated like they are temporary, rather than treated like important parts of the city.
IMO that's why Chicago felt so interesting, it was populated by interesting people until editorial decided to ruin it.

Chicago was interesting? Prankster and Zucco cant really be said to be better than Blockbuster and Judge, I'd even say they're worse by far.

[WonderNight]

Maybe they should flip it. don''t have dick in bludhaven because of nightwing but have nightwing in bludhaven because dick. have the book focus dick being in bludhaven because it's the number one entertainment city in the dcu and continue the legacy of his family by opening Club Spyral: nightlife/ live entertainment. then focus on dick being a club own in the number one market and his supporting characters first then his villians.

[Godlike13]

Or maybe Dick takes a liking to gambling.

[oasis1313]

Or maybe Dick takes a liking to gambling.

That's all we need--a superhero with a compulsive gambling problem like Tony Stark and his alcoholism.

[Restingvoice]

My question is what does Bludhaven bring to Dick and what Dick contributes to Bludhaven, as a story and a brand?
Gotham is a dark city filled with the criminally insane that only Batman as a detective tethering on insanity can solve.
Burnside is a bright neighborhood focusing on youth culture and cybercrime that only the computer genius Barbara can handle.
Bludhaven is a neon covered gambling town trying to hide its seedy underbelly which only the flexible spy hero team leader Nightwing can... what exactly?

What is the main conflict of Bludhaven that Nightwing won't be able to solve any time soon but unique enough to define his story for years to come?
Why is he the only one who can do the job?

[Assam]

That's all we need--a superhero with a compulsive gambling problem like Tony Stark and his alcoholism.

You say that like it'd be a bad thing, but it'd be the most interesting thing done with the character (if handled well) in a really long time.

[WhipWhirlwind]

I sort of thought they were going with a coastal, entertainment hub city. Crazy casinos, stadium music concerts, magic shows, etc. somewhere a circus boy would fit right in and where the villains and side characters could all be wrapped up in those kinds of industries/characteristics. The rot hidden by extravagance rather than darkness. His cover job should have been related to that - owning a bar with live music/shows etc. that would collect interesting characters and where he could keep an ear out for what's going on (a Nightwing version of Iceberg Lounge!). His Dick Grayson stories could be related to dealing with typical bar/entertainment venue owner issues ("we need to book some new talent!", "the place across the street is attracting all our customers", "someone just threatened us for protection money!") which could be fun.

Bludhaven already has a bit of an Atlantic City on crack vibe, so I'd be all for this.