How long will super-hero movies be hot?

[Ascended]

Making a shared universe requires a strong leadership with a proper vision. Marvel has that. So, i am gradually warming upto the idea of DC films not being as interconnected as Marvel. When they make team films like Avengers the sum becomes larger then the parts.

In DC's case, I think they'd actually be better off ignoring the idea of a shared universe anyway.

There's no scenario where the DCEU comes out looking favorably in comparison to the MCU. The MCU has almost two dozen movies to its name so far, and not a single one of them has been a failure. No one else can say that, not Indiana Jones, not James Bond, not Robin Hood, not Star Trek or even Star Wars (Ewok Adventures anyone?). We talk about Thor 2 (and Iron Man 2) as being bad films, but they're only bad when set next to other MCU movies. DCEU on the other hand, started off with a film that got mixed reception and (other than Wonder Woman) has just gone downhill from there.

There's no saving the DCEU, it's never going to be accepted by the general public in its current form even if the next five movies are all quality.

So instead of trying to make this failed DCEU thing work out, just make good movies. Simple as that. No need to jump through the shared universe hoops that Marvel does. The only reason Marvel did that in the first place was because no one gave a damn about their characters. No one was gonna line up to watch Ant-Man or Thor without an extra hook to reel them in. DC never needed to do that, their big characters have been household names for generations and will draw an audience on their own, easily. DC has saddled themselves with a handicap they never needed, because they mistook that complication for success.

[The Dying Detective]

Guess who is STILL going after Black Panther and then tries to tell DC and every other company how to NOT hire "SJW"

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ca7Q-Nun4KU

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DxmGiex8YM4

It gets to a point to where one has to STOP.

One can not take issue with every little thing Marvel or DC does.

Nothing you do is hurting DC nor Marvel's bottom line. Because bad film or not-SOMEBODY is going to like it. Same with books.

I hear Arglefumph: The Nancy Drew Dude has better things to say and show than Shawn James like the videos of his sweet little toddler Rosie first experience with snow and dancing and making ice-cream cake. Shawn James is bad as DC and Marvel with how he manages himself so what is he complaining about? He's also doing the same things liberals do by speaking so presumptuously so speak for himself. And he really needs to it get through his head that he is no different from Marvel and DC's heads and he thinks he can do better than them?

[Soubhagya]

In DC's case, I think they'd actually be better off ignoring the idea of a shared universe anyway.

There's no scenario where the DCEU comes out looking favorably in comparison to the MCU. The MCU has almost two dozen movies to its name so far, and not a single one of them has been a failure. No one else can say that, not Indiana Jones, not James Bond, not Robin Hood, not Star Trek or even Star Wars (Ewok Adventures anyone?). We talk about Thor 2 (and Iron Man 2) as being bad films, but they're only bad when set next to other MCU movies. DCEU on the other hand, started off with a film that got mixed reception and (other than Wonder Woman) has just gone downhill from there.

There's no saving the DCEU, it's never going to be accepted by the general public in its current form even if the next five movies are all quality.

So instead of trying to make this failed DCEU thing work out, just make good movies. Simple as that. No need to jump through the shared universe hoops that Marvel does. The only reason Marvel did that in the first place was because no one gave a damn about their characters. No one was gonna line up to watch Ant-Man or Thor without an extra hook to reel them in. DC never needed to do that, their big characters have been household names for generations and will draw an audience on their own, easily. DC has saddled themselves with a handicap they never needed, because they mistook that complication for success.

I agree with you. I have said before that to succeed they have to reboot. Start with new actors and the shared universe thing might work. Its a real uphill task with the current incarnation of DCEU. But you are quite correct. DC will never come close to Marvel unless Marvel starts making terrible films and WB terrific films. MCU's bad films are like Iron Man 2. When i told my sister that Iron Man 2 is the worst MCU film after she watched that on TV. And she was like "Really? It was so good." (At that time she had not seen other MCU films). Even in their worst days they are a good time.

[Ascended]

The only thing that gets me is the re-casting. The problems with the DCEU are not (usually) the actors. We've got some really damn good people in the DCEU. Cavill, Gadot, Mamoa, Robbie, Adams, Fisher.....I could go on. I'm not ready to walk away from that yet. Imagine what some of these actors could do with their characters if they were given good material and good people to work with.

No, the problem is WB, not the cast. Hell, I think even Eisenberg could do a great Lex if he had the right director to guide him. Re-casting might be necessary, but I'd like to avoid it if at all possible.

I'm no CEO and I don't share their priorities but as an armchair quarterback fan I think three things need to happen.

First is WB needs to find someone competent and knowledgeable to spear-head their DC films. They need their own Kevin Feige, and once that person is found WB needs to shut the f*ck up and stay out of the way. I think Patty Jenkins might be that person, and she's expressed a long-time love for Superman as well, so I'd start looking with her.

Then I'd like to see a "Thor 3" kind of pivot. Not a reboot, but a shift in direction and approach and priority. Actively move in new directions, and only work on making single, stand-alone films. No one cares about the Justice League getting together when no one cares about the members in the first place. So forget sequels and setting up crossovers and team-ups. Worry about making a movie that'll actually turn a profit you won't be embarrassed to talk about.

The shared universe isn't mentioned again. Eventually, as actor contracts come to an end, if things have turned around and the movies are doing well, maybe, just maybe, you do a entirely self-contained JLA sequel to finish the DCEU off.

[Osiris-Rex]

What ever happened to Geoff Johns being DC Film's version of Kevin Feige? Is he still in that role? If not did WB even give him a chance to be? There-in might be the problem. WB is too fickle to allow a Kevin Feige to exist.

[Soubhagya]

The only thing that gets me is the re-casting. The problems with the DCEU are not (usually) the actors. We've got some really damn good people in the DCEU. Cavill, Gadot, Mamoa, Robbie, Adams, Fisher.....I could go on. I'm not ready to walk away from that yet. Imagine what some of these actors could do with their characters if they were given good material and good people to work with.

No, the problem is WB, not the cast. Hell, I think even Eisenberg could do a great Lex if he had the right director to guide him. Re-casting might be necessary, but I'd like to avoid it if at all possible.

I'm no CEO and I don't share their priorities but as an armchair quarterback fan I think three things need to happen.

First is WB needs to find someone competent and knowledgeable to spear-head their DC films. They need their own Kevin Feige, and once that person is found WB needs to shut the f*ck up and stay out of the way. I think Patty Jenkins might be that person, and she's expressed a long-time love for Superman as well, so I'd start looking with her.

Then I'd like to see a "Thor 3" kind of pivot. Not a reboot, but a shift in direction and approach and priority. Actively move in new directions, and only work on making single, stand-alone films. No one cares about the Justice League getting together when no one cares about the members in the first place. So forget sequels and setting up crossovers and team-ups. Worry about making a movie that'll actually turn a profit you won't be embarrassed to talk about.

The shared universe isn't mentioned again. Eventually, as actor contracts come to an end, if things have turned around and the movies are doing well, maybe, just maybe, you do a entirely self-contained JLA sequel to finish the DCEU off.

When you reboot you have to recast. Batman, Spider-man and even Hulk had seen great successes with reboots. There are success stories with reboots in films.

You are right there. Problem isn't the cast. Its their leadership. Their actors are quite good. Ben Affleck, Henry Cavill. That's only the start. They have some really talented actors. But their leadership is terrible when it comes to their DC properties. Look at their other films.

One might ask what good would a reboot do if the leadership don't get their acts together. Its possible as they have seen what has worked and what hasn't. So, its possible that a restart can work as there has been notable examples of successes before. I would be sad to see the actors go. But there always are other talented people who can be just as good, possibly better.

Reboot would be a better idea then simply moving ahead. Though not being interconnected might be better then a reboot.

[Soubhagya]

What ever happened to Geoff Johns being DC Film's version of Kevin Feige? Is he still in that role? If not did WB even give him a chance to be? There-in might be the problem. WB is too fickle to allow a Kevin Feige to exist.

Geoff Johns has been brought down to a more 'advisory' position. And Walter Hamada is the new head. He has quite successfully handled their horror properties. So, i have high hopes. But i am still not confident. WB are just too reactive.

How much was he allowed to be the 'Kevin Feige' when he was in that position, may never be known. His stint was short. I was saying that whatever impact he had can be known starting from Aquaman. Justice League work had already started and he helped in writing Wonder Woman. But his leadership would have been actually seen after Aquaman. But even that is not going to happen as he was removed after Justice League which wasn't actually his fault.

[Ascended]

When you reboot you have to recast. Batman, Spider-man and even Hulk had seen great successes with reboots. There are success stories with reboots in films.

You're right, they do. And I have no problem with re-casting, I'm just not sure the DCEU is at the point where that's the best option available. Not yet. I *think* they could salvage a few successful films if they ditch the shared universe (their blind concern for that gimmick is the root cause of most of their problems, I think) and changed direction under new stewardship. It would take a small miracle for them to gain the audience's trust back, but they might still do respectably.

We'll see. If Aquaman gets positive reviews, it'll be the third DCEU movie in a row to do so. Wonder Woman was a flat out success, and while JL didn't make any money, it did get mostly positive/decent reviews (from what Ive seen). That'd be a (admittedly small) good sign. But I haven't been given a lot of reason to have faith in WB. They're too inconsistent, they don't seem to have the right mindset to move this genre (not the worst thing ever, just inconvenient for us). They can't even settle on who to give the DCEU to, Johns was their "Fiege" for half a movie that had already started filming.

Reboot would be a better idea then simply moving ahead. Though not being interconnected might be better then a reboot.

Maybe you're right. I don't know. I don't follow Hollywood politics or policy. It's never made sense to me. I'm not a movie guy, I don't know much about the industry. But damn, I'd hate to lose out on the chance to see some of these actors get to do it right. They shouldn't be punished because of their producers; they deserve the chance to show what they're capable of. But maybe a totally fresh start really is what they gotta do. I dunno, but no more Cav-El? That'd make me sad.

Of course, if they decided to do a stand-alone Superman movie set in the 1940's.....I could forgive them. Equal parts Mad Men and Fleischer cartoon? Hell yeah.

[Soubhagya]

You're right, they do. And I have no problem with re-casting, I'm just not sure the DCEU is at the point where that's the best option available. Not yet. I *think* they could salvage a few successful films if they ditch the shared universe (their blind concern for that gimmick is the root cause of most of their problems, I think) and changed direction under new stewardship. It would take a small miracle for them to gain the audience's trust back, but they might still do respectably.

We'll see. If Aquaman gets positive reviews, it'll be the third DCEU movie in a row to do so. Wonder Woman was a flat out success, and while JL didn't make any money, it did get mostly positive/decent reviews (from what Ive seen). That'd be a (admittedly small) good sign. But I haven't been given a lot of reason to have faith in WB. They're too inconsistent, they don't seem to have the right mindset to move this genre (not the worst thing ever, just inconvenient for us). They can't even settle on who to give the DCEU to, Johns was their "Fiege" for half a movie that had already started filming.



Maybe you're right. I don't know. I don't follow Hollywood politics or policy. It's never made sense to me. I'm not a movie guy, I don't know much about the industry. But damn, I'd hate to lose out on the chance to see some of these actors get to do it right. They shouldn't be punished because of their producers; they deserve the chance to show what they're capable of. But maybe a totally fresh start really is what they gotta do. I dunno, but no more Cav-El? That'd make me sad.

Of course, if they decided to do a stand-alone Superman movie set in the 1940's.....I could forgive them. Equal parts Mad Men and Fleischer cartoon? Hell yeah.

I could simply copy paste your quote and it will do. I pretty much agree with everything you say. Even the maybe thing about reboot. It has worked as examples suggest that. But it does not guarantee success. Only a higher probability. Reboot has worked well. When audience interest goes down a reboot provided they are good films can really bring the franchise back.

I don't agree with one thing. If they make a standalone film don't set it in 1940s. Especially not now. There's a perception that Superman is an outdated character. I am starting to hear this about Wonder Woman too as her film was set in the 1st World War. Thankfully, that is a small minority but Superman's brand is going through a crisis.

I would rather let them adapt Grant Morrison's 1st volume of Action Comics from New 52. The point where it ended with Braniac. I have come to appreciate how good it really is even if i don't understand a number of things.

Had they gone ahead with Man of Steel 2, Superman might have been in a better position. 1st film's reception was mixed. But a good number of the complaints was because it was not their idea of Superman. After the first film had borne the brunt next one might have fared better. From looking at the general audience they did not love the film as say Iron Man or Wonder Woman but their response was quite favorable. The only reliable audience score is Cinemascore. And it had A-. That's pretty good. At that time it was the highest grossing origin film except Spider-man. The higher budget might have made them think it did not do as well. Online folks were making it look very divisive. But if we go by numbers and metrics it wasn't that divisive as it was being perceived.

So instead of making it a Batman film and a backdoor Justice League pilot had it been a proper Man of Steel sequel picture might have been different. A more 'dark' BvS to a more 'light' JL, sadly Henry Cavill has not clicked as Superman with audiences. For no fault of his. He is a really good Superman. Arguably better then Reeve. (Even though Reeve is my favorite). I really want that Man of Steel 2, if they aren't rebooting.