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  1. #616
    Moderator Nyssane's Avatar
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    I really hope this becomes Wonder Woman's defining story. That art blows me away every time I see it.

  2. #617
    Beyond Good. Beyond Evil. Gaius's Avatar
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    I mainly do digital, so there any special process to doing mail order or pre-ordering comics? I definitely want this physically and seems pre-orders are looked at by those at DC for this kind of stuff.

  3. #618
    Fishy Member I'm a Fish's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gaius View Post
    I mainly do digital, so there any special process to doing mail order or pre-ordering comics? I definitely want this physically and seems pre-orders are looked at by those at DC for this kind of stuff.
    DeConnick said she would post a pre-order link soon to help people out.
    ~I just keep swimming through these threads~

  4. #619
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gaius View Post
    I mainly do digital, so there any special process to doing mail order or pre-ordering comics? I definitely want this physically and seems pre-orders are looked at by those at DC for this kind of stuff.
    Given that it was just solicited it's probably not in the system yet so you may not be able to preorder it yet. In general though just going into your LCS and saying you want to preorder it should work. If you want to do online/mail order sites that do a lot of mail order business like midtown comics should have it up for preorder once it's in the system.

    DC also offers their own mail order print subscription service though that website is rather annoying to use in my opinion.

    Anyways we're still a ways off from FOC so you have time.

  5. #620
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    Here's a little thread Clark Bull (DC publicist) did on preordering: https://mobile.twitter.com/drinkpink...09984361746432

  6. #621
    Beyond Good. Beyond Evil. Gaius's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by I'm a Fish View Post
    DeConnick said she would post a pre-order link soon to help people out.
    Quote Originally Posted by Hypo View Post
    Given that it was just solicited it's probably not in the system yet so you may not be able to preorder it yet. In general though just going into your LCS and saying you want to preorder it should work. If you want to do online/mail order sites that do a lot of mail order business like midtown comics should have it up for preorder once it's in the system.

    DC also offers their own mail order print subscription service though that website is rather annoying to use in my opinion.

    Anyways we're still a ways off from FOC so you have time.
    Thanks in 10char

  7. #622
    Spectacular Member HestiasHearth's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SonOfBaldwin View Post
    You have to remember that "race" wasn't a concept as a color marker in the days of ancient Greece. Anthropologists, archaeologists, and historians are now discovering, as Classics Professor at Brooklyn College Brian P. Sowers explained: "The ancient Mediterranean isn't just Europe. It also includes North Africa and vast amounts of land that we now call Asia. In the ancient world, these were part of this larger cohesive group, mainly because they were connected by one sea. This group was diverse, composed of at least 50 percent women, if not more; people who weren't Greek or Latin speakers; people of a variety of colors and ethnicities. Unfortunately, the literary record that survives tends to be dominated by male aristocratic authors. And so that skews the perspective of the ancient experience."

    Depictions of gods who had skin colors other than white would not have been unusual or incorrect. Often, these ancient peoples crafted gods specifically to encourage trade with neighbors and so might flatter them by depicting particular gods as looking like the other groups they were trading with. Additionally, much of the Greek cosmology is heavily influenced by the Egyptian. So don't be surprised if you see particular Greek gods depicted as having African, Asian, or Middle Eastern characteristics. It is only with the Enlightenment period did scholars attempt to make Greek (and Roman for that matter) synonymous with "white" for the express purpose of creating "the white race." And that was what we, as Westerners, have been taught in schools for centuries; and it's what we've become accustomed to seeing and grown comfortable with understanding.

    But the truth, as always, is way more complex.

    See here: https://youtu.be/86PD8o6xe_4

    And here: https://youtu.be/4jmMWohs1XM
    Thank you for the links and for the post in general!
    !!
    I think it's...interesting that some people can accept all the incredible, fantastical, mind-blowing stuff you see in Wonder Woman comics, but draw the line at depicting MYTHOLOGICAL DEITIES ---you know, those fictional cosmic beings that never existed and that a comic book is ADAPTING---with skin that is not white or features that don't adhere to the eurocentric beauty standard. And let's not sugarcoat it...the gods in WW comics are always drawn as white.
    In any case, if I were drawing a WW book, and since these "Greek" gods are simply comic-bookized adaptations, I would draw them with various features and skin tones. Gaea, for example, I would definitely draw as a divinely dark-skinned black woman...the literal mother Earth through which Nubia and Diana get their strength.
    #%@k Zeus.
    2e3cd92346aa85683e77608d8860875c.jpg
    Picture credit: Trisher Chemjor
    Last edited by HestiasHearth; 07-17-2021 at 10:45 AM.

  8. #623
    Beyond Good. Beyond Evil. Gaius's Avatar
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  9. #624
    Ultimate Member Vordan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SonOfBaldwin View Post
    You have to remember that "race" wasn't a concept as a color marker in the days of ancient Greece. Anthropologists, archaeologists, and historians are now discovering, as Classics Professor at Brooklyn College Brian P. Sowers explained: "The ancient Mediterranean isn't just Europe. It also includes North Africa and vast amounts of land that we now call Asia. In the ancient world, these were part of this larger cohesive group, mainly because they were connected by one sea. This group was diverse, composed of at least 50 percent women, if not more; people who weren't Greek or Latin speakers; people of a variety of colors and ethnicities. Unfortunately, the literary record that survives tends to be dominated by male aristocratic authors. And so that skews the perspective of the ancient experience."

    Depictions of gods who had skin colors other than white would not have been unusual or incorrect. Often, these ancient peoples crafted gods specifically to encourage trade with neighbors and so might flatter them by depicting particular gods as looking like the other groups they were trading with. Additionally, much of the Greek cosmology is heavily influenced by the Egyptian. So don't be surprised if you see particular Greek gods depicted as having African, Asian, or Middle Eastern characteristics. It is only with the Enlightenment period did scholars attempt to make Greek (and Roman for that matter) synonymous with "white" for the express purpose of creating "the white race." And that was what we, as Westerners, have been taught in schools for centuries; and it's what we've become accustomed to seeing and grown comfortable with understanding.

    But the truth, as always, is way more complex.

    See here: https://youtu.be/86PD8o6xe_4

    And here: https://youtu.be/4jmMWohs1XM
    That was interesting thanks for the videos. The Greeks/Mediterranean occupied an interesting place in history/geography.
    Quote Originally Posted by Nyssane View Post
    I really hope this becomes Wonder Woman's defining story. That art blows me away every time I see it.
    Moreso I think this will be the Amazons defining story if it’s a hit rather than Diana’s since she will barely be in it.
    For when my rants on the forums just arenít enough: https://thevindicativevordan.tumblr.com/

  10. #625
    Ultimate Member SiegePerilous02's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by HestiasHearth View Post
    Thank you for the links and for the post in general!
    !!
    I think it's...interesting that some people can accept all the incredible, fantastical, mind-blowing stuff you see in Wonder Woman comics, but draw the line at depicting MYTHOLOGICAL DEITIES ---you know, those fictional cosmic beings that never existed and that a comic book is ADAPTING---with skin that is not white or features that don't adhere to the eurocentric beauty standard. And let's not sugarcoat it...the gods in WW comics are always drawn as white.
    Same reasoning applies to the Amazons themselves, sometimes we get pushback from some when they are shown to be more diverse. But the Amazons are NOT of Greek culture to begin with, so they shouldn't look exclusively Greek. And in myth the Gods created all of humanity, not just the Greeks, and that process is being recreated in the creation of the Amazons. Combined with other women who are freed slaves or who can travel to join the Amazons from different regions, there is more than enough justification for varied Amazons.

    I usually take race-bending in comics on a case by case basis, but this is a case where I'm extremely excited to see some overhauled Amazons. Especially as most of the ones being used are such minor characters to begin with that overhauling them shouldn't upset too many apple carts (one would hope). I can't imagine anyone was too attached to white Aella and all 2-3 panels she appeared in previously that her new (awesome) design as a woman of color would upset them.

    Quote Originally Posted by Gaius View Post
    Looking more and more likely that the Amazon on the right in the image below is Antiope instead of Hippolyta like I originally thought:

    Hippolyta5.jpg

    Queen.jpg

    Quote Originally Posted by Vordan View Post
    Moreso I think this will be the Amazons defining story if itís a hit rather than Dianaís since she will barely be in it.
    Yeah unfortunately we are still going to be waiting on a All-Star equivalent for Diana herself, but at least this is still a pretty big deal.

    Would kill for a DeConnick/Jimenez plotted epic of Wonder Woman vs. Villainy Inc.
    Last edited by SiegePerilous02; 07-17-2021 at 11:36 AM.

  11. #626
    Beyond Good. Beyond Evil. Gaius's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SiegePerilous02 View Post

    Looking more and more likely that the Amazon on the right in the image below is Antiope instead of Hippolyta like I originally thought:

    Hippolyta5.jpg

    Queen.jpg
    I'm wondering how much she'll look like Robin Wright.

    Maybe there will be other pre-Hippolyta Amazons Queens also like what Rucka setup in his run.

    Quote Originally Posted by Vordan View Post
    Moreso I think this will be the Amazons defining story if itís a hit rather than Dianaís since she will barely be in it.
    Quote Originally Posted by SiegePerilous02 View Post
    Yeah unfortunately we are still going to be waiting on a All-Star equivalent for Diana herself, but at least this is still a pretty big deal.

    Would kill for a DeConnick/Jimenez plotted epic of Wonder Woman vs. Villainy Inc.
    I'm still considering it a win since it's something set entirely in her corner without other DC characters like Supes and Bats since even something like The Hiketeia has Batman in it.

  12. #627
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    Quote Originally Posted by I'm a Fish View Post
    DeConnick said she would post a pre-order link soon to help people out.
    Yaaaaaaayyyyyy! Please share! I have scoured the websesees to no avail.

  13. #628
    Fishy Member I'm a Fish's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Stanlos View Post
    Yaaaaaaayyyyyy! Please share! I have scoured the websesees to no avail.
    This is what she has said so far, but yeah Iíll pose it when she links the pre-order website.

    ~I just keep swimming through these threads~

  14. #629
    Astonishing Member John Venus's Avatar
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    I will pre order once it becomes available on Amazon. Heh, buying a book about Amazons on Amazon.

  15. #630
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    Quote Originally Posted by SonOfBaldwin View Post
    You have to remember that "race" wasn't a concept as a color marker in the days of ancient Greece. Anthropologists, archaeologists, and historians are now discovering, as Classics Professor at Brooklyn College Brian P. Sowers explained: "The ancient Mediterranean isn't just Europe. It also includes North Africa and vast amounts of land that we now call Asia. In the ancient world, these were part of this larger cohesive group, mainly because they were connected by one sea. This group was diverse, composed of at least 50 percent women, if not more; people who weren't Greek or Latin speakers; people of a variety of colors and ethnicities. Unfortunately, the literary record that survives tends to be dominated by male aristocratic authors. And so that skews the perspective of the ancient experience."

    Depictions of gods who had skin colors other than white would not have been unusual or incorrect. Often, these ancient peoples crafted gods specifically to encourage trade with neighbors and so might flatter them by depicting particular gods as looking like the other groups they were trading with. Additionally, much of the Greek cosmology is heavily influenced by the Egyptian. So don't be surprised if you see particular Greek gods depicted as having African, Asian, or Middle Eastern characteristics. It is only with the Enlightenment period did scholars attempt to make Greek (and Roman for that matter) synonymous with "white" for the express purpose of creating "the white race." And that was what we, as Westerners, have been taught in schools for centuries; and it's what we've become accustomed to seeing and grown comfortable with understanding.
    But the truth, as always, is way more complex.

    See here: https://youtu.be/86PD8o6xe_4

    And here: https://youtu.be/4jmMWohs1XM
    I'm from Southern Europe and those videos you just posted aren't stating facts. Many people have called Vice News and Vox about trying to revise history to suit their agenda. Yes, the statues were painted but the people were white. I mean look at the facial features.
    I agree that the Mediterranean isn't just Europe. The Mediterranean is just a geographical term. It is true that Ancient Greece, Ancient Rome, and later the East Roman Empire (Byzantine Empire/ Byzantium), which is basically a Greek Empire) expanded to become one of the largest empires in the ancient world through conquest, cultural, and linguistic assimilation. The Greeks and Romans are Europeans, therefore they are Caucasians aka white. However, the populations of the kingdoms/empires which they conquered in the Middle East and North Africa weren't. Ancient Egypt, on the other hand, was a melting pot of cultures. During the course of its history, Egypt was invaded or conquered by a number of foreign powers, including the Hyksos, the Libyans, the Nubians, the Assyrians, the Achaemenid Persians, and the Macedonians under the command of Alexander the Great. The Greek Ptolemaic Kingdom, formed in the aftermath of Alexander's death, ruled Egypt until 30 BC, when, under Cleopatra, it fell to the Roman Empire and became a Roman province. It makes sense for Ancient Egypt, but not for Ancient Rome and Greece because they were never conquered by non-European empires. The Persians tried several times to conquer Greece but failed. Therefore I prefer that the Greek Gods and Goddesses be portrayed as Europeans aka white.
    Last edited by Veni; 07-18-2021 at 09:38 AM.

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