Wonder Woman Historia: The Amazons and Wonder Woman: Diana's Daughter Announced

[HestiasHearth]

Oh definitely not, I’m hoping for Marston level revamping/recontextualization of the Greek myths for this.

I hope that many of the deities are drawn with non-white skintones. I always felt that the Greek myths should have been just the foundation, but that there should be more variety in their looks instead of just a bunch of white people with differnt hair colors.

[John Venus]

Glad for the confirmation that Zeus isn't her father. I'm doubtful this book will be very kind to Zeus as a character, which is fine by me.

I guess I'm gonna have to start lurking on Ha and Scott's IGs now lol. At first I was bummed Jimenez wasn't doing the whole series, but these two (especially Scott) are a best case alternative. If we get the full 9 issues I hope the quality can remain good.

Oh definitely not, I’m hoping for Marston level revamping/recontextualization of the Greek myths for this.

Honestly, it's the adaptation that try to make him benevolent that fails. Zeus should be the villain of the story, especially in a WW story.

[Vordan]

I hope that many of the deities are drawn with non-white skintones. I always felt that the Greek myths should have been just the foundation, but that there should be more variety in their looks instead of just a bunch of white people with differnt hair colors.

Hm I don’t know how I feel about that to be honest. I like designs such as Chaing’s that aren’t just dudes in togas, but I’m not really a fan of changing the “race” of religious deities that were worshipped in the real world and are tied to ethnic groups. That gets dicey imo.

[Avi]

From DeConnick's newsletter:

Short Summary:

• Book 1 is co-created with Phil Jimenez, and it covers the Goddesses and the birth of the Amazons.
• Book 2 is co-created with Gene Ha, and it covers the creation of the Seventh Tribe of Amazons.
• Book 3 is co-created with Nicola Scott and it covers the war between the Gods and the Amazons.

Signed Copy:
"If you pre-order WONDER WOMAN HISTORIA: THE AMAZONS #1 from Books with Pictures Eugene, I’ll sign it for you. (No price difference for the signed copy.) Drop Andrea an email at bookswpictureseug@gmail.com and she’ll hook you up."

[Korath]

Hm I don’t know how I feel about that to be honest. I like designs such as Chaing’s that aren’t just dudes in togas, but I’m not really a fan of changing the “race” of religious deities that were worshipped in the real world and are tied to ethnic groups. That gets dicey imo.

Agreed.

Go wild with less human forms, but making, let's say, Eros black or Dyonisios East Asian would rub me the wrong way (but Dyionisios definitively should look more near-eastern/middle-eastern, his cult comes from that region after all - and Greeks did live in Western Turkey for thousands of years; and Alexander the Great's successors were Greek lords over vast swathes of those regions).

[Vordan]

From DeConnick's newsletter:

Short Summary:

• Book 1 is co-created with Phil Jimenez, and it covers the Goddesses and the birth of the Amazons.
• Book 2 is co-created with Gene Ha, and it covers the creation of the Seventh Tribe of Amazons.
• Book 3 is co-created with Nicola Scott and it covers the war between the Gods and the Amazons.

Signed Copy:
"If you pre-order WONDER WOMAN HISTORIA: THE AMAZONS #1 from Books with Pictures Eugene, I’ll sign it for you. (No price difference for the signed copy.) Drop Andrea an email at bookswpictureseug@gmail.com and she’ll hook you up."

Yep looks like Zeus is going to be an antagonist if not an outright villain, excited to see that! Gene Ha and Nicola Scott are going to make it look absolutely gorgeous.

[I'm a Fish]

What are you basing that on?

Don’t Graphic novels such as these always sell more than her ongoing? I know Wonder Woman: Dead Earth did, and that wasn’t being pushed as hard.

And since they are releasing it as an anniversary special (of sorts) it will probably garner more attention than it otherwise would have. I imagine it’s going to come up at Comic Con and DCFandome as well.

Of corse, it might not sell more copies than her ongoing that month since that is also being released as a 80th special, and her #750th anniversary issue sold ~175k iirc. But in terms of the average sales of her ongoing these past couple of years, I don’t see it having much trouble surpassing it.

[Gaius]

From DeConnick's newsletter:

Short Summary:

• Book 1 is co-created with Phil Jimenez, and it covers the Goddesses and the birth of the Amazons.
• Book 2 is co-created with Gene Ha, and it covers the creation of the Seventh Tribe of Amazons.
• Book 3 is co-created with Nicola Scott and it covers the war between the Gods and the Amazons.

Signed Copy:
"If you pre-order WONDER WOMAN HISTORIA: THE AMAZONS #1 from Books with Pictures Eugene, I’ll sign it for you. (No price difference for the signed copy.) Drop Andrea an email at bookswpictureseug@gmail.com and she’ll hook you up."

Seventh tribe, that's interesting since she said in an earlier interview there were six original founding ones.

I assume Gods vs. Amazons means it's the male gods. So I assume at least Zeus, Ares, maybe Posiedon also in antagonistic roles.

Hm I don’t know how I feel about that to be honest. I like designs such as Chaing’s that aren’t just dudes in togas, but I’m not really a fan of changing the “race” of religious deities that were worshipped in the real world and are tied to ethnic groups. That gets dicey imo.

Well, it's not like it's unprecedented.

[Alpha]

That's very different. I don't have a horse in this race, but the racial depiction of Christ isn't comparable to Greek mythos.

The one thing I will say is, i love the New 52 Apollo design. His skin isn't dark brown, it's a much more otherworldly tone, but he is clearly based on central african features

[SonOfBaldwin]

Hm I don’t know how I feel about that to be honest. I like designs such as Chaing’s that aren’t just dudes in togas, but I’m not really a fan of changing the “race” of religious deities that were worshipped in the real world and are tied to ethnic groups. That gets dicey imo.

You have to remember that "race" wasn't a concept as a color marker in the days of ancient Greece. Anthropologists, archaeologists, and historians are now discovering, as Classics Professor at Brooklyn College Brian P. Sowers explained: "The ancient Mediterranean isn't just Europe. It also includes North Africa and vast amounts of land that we now call Asia. In the ancient world, these were part of this larger cohesive group, mainly because they were connected by one sea. This group was diverse, composed of at least 50 percent women, if not more; people who weren't Greek or Latin speakers; people of a variety of colors and ethnicities. Unfortunately, the literary record that survives tends to be dominated by male aristocratic authors. And so that skews the perspective of the ancient experience."

Depictions of gods who had skin colors other than white would not have been unusual or incorrect. Often, these ancient peoples crafted gods specifically to encourage trade with neighbors and so might flatter them by depicting particular gods as looking like the other groups they were trading with. Additionally, much of the Greek cosmology is heavily influenced by the Egyptian. So don't be surprised if you see particular Greek gods depicted as having African, Asian, or Middle Eastern characteristics. It is only with the Enlightenment period did scholars attempt to make Greek (and Roman for that matter) synonymous with "white" for the express purpose of creating "the white race." And that was what we, as Westerners, have been taught in schools for centuries; and it's what we've become accustomed to seeing and grown comfortable with understanding.

But the truth, as always, is way more complex.

See here: https://youtu.be/86PD8o6xe_4

And here: https://youtu.be/4jmMWohs1XM

[I'm a Fish]

The Greek Gods are known shapeshifters, anyway.

[SiegePerilous02]

From DeConnick's newsletter:

Short Summary:

• Book 1 is co-created with Phil Jimenez, and it covers the Goddesses and the birth of the Amazons.
• Book 2 is co-created with Gene Ha, and it covers the creation of the Seventh Tribe of Amazons.
• Book 3 is co-created with Nicola Scott and it covers the war between the Gods and the Amazons.

Signed Copy:
"If you pre-order WONDER WOMAN HISTORIA: THE AMAZONS #1 from Books with Pictures Eugene, I’ll sign it for you. (No price difference for the signed copy.) Drop Andrea an email at bookswpictureseug@gmail.com and she’ll hook you up."

Oh hell yes, the premises for books 2 and 3 sound awesome. Can't wait to see Scott draw a war between the Amazons and the Gods

[marhawkman]

You have to remember that "race" wasn't a concept as a color marker in the days of ancient Greece. Anthropologists, archaeologists, and historians are now discovering, as Classics Professor at Brooklyn College Brian P. Sowers explained: "The ancient Mediterranean isn't just Europe. It also includes North Africa and vast amounts of land that we now call Asia. In the ancient world, these were part of this larger cohesive group, mainly because they were connected by one sea. This group was diverse, composed of at least 50 percent women, if not more; people who weren't Greek or Latin speakers; people of a variety of colors and ethnicities. Unfortunately, the literary record that survives tends to be dominated by male aristocratic authors. And so that skews the perspective of the ancient experience."

Depictions of gods who had skin colors other than white would not have been unusual or incorrect. Often, these ancient peoples crafted gods specifically to encourage trade with neighbors and so might flatter them by depicting particular gods as looking like the other groups they were trading with. Additionally, much of the Greek cosmology is heavily influenced by the Egyptian. So don't be surprised if you see particular Greek gods depicted as having African, Asian, or Middle Eastern characteristics. It is only with the Enlightenment period did scholars attempt to make Greek (and Roman for that matter) synonymous with "white" for the express purpose of creating "the white race." And that was what we, as Westerners, have been taught in schools for centuries; and it's what we've become accustomed to seeing and grown comfortable with understanding.

Yeah as someone pointed out to me many years ago, southern Europe has a lot of populations(to include Greeks) that aren't what many would call "Causcasian". I remember this discussion I had a long time ago about the norms for various European nations and what was considered a typical physical appearance. Greece has relatively dark skin and hair for a part of Europe. As you mentioned, they did a lot of trade with Phoenicia and northern Africa.

[Hypo]

DonÂ’t Graphic novels such as these always sell more than her ongoing? I know Wonder Woman: Dead Earth did, and that wasnÂ’t being pushed as hard.

And since they are releasing it as an anniversary special (of sorts) it will probably garner more attention than it otherwise would have. I imagine itÂ’s going to come up at Comic Con and DCFandome as well.

Of corse, it might not sell more copies than her ongoing that month since that is also being released as a 80th special, and her #750th anniversary issue sold ~175k iirc. But in terms of the average sales of her ongoing these past couple of years, I donÂ’t see it having much trouble surpassing it.

If it becomes a certified hit and achieves evergreen status resulting in DC keeping it in print forever sure but that's not a given.

The Dead Earth trade debuted at #6 on the Top 20 Graphic Novels by Units Sold list in December 2020 per ICv2 - I know the sales data is imperfect post-pandemic but it's what we got - and was off the Top 20 list the next month. #6 sounds great until you go back and look at the historical data and realize that's probably in the range of 2,000-3,000 units sold.

In terms of Top 20 Graphic Novels by Dollars it went from #3 to #18 to off the chart.

I hope this becomes an evergreen hit and joins the ranks of Watchmen, DKR, etc. but it's certainly not a given and it's definitely got some stuff working against it like the fact that it's a $7.99 book with a 4-5 month gap between issues. Could easily see big numbers for issue #1 with a huge drop off afterwards which could then bleed into how retailers order the eventual trade.

[SiegePerilous02]

God I hope this does better than Dead Earth. it already has way more going for it story wise, but yeah the release schedule may really hurt it.

It might help if the issues are each satisfying self contained reads so we don't get left with big, obvious cliffhangers.