Wonder Woman Historia: The Amazons and Wonder Woman: Diana's Daughter Announced

[Koriand'r]

Well, I mean...

Look at the all the other weird stuff that was in Batman Dammed but it was Bat-penis everyone lost their cool over.

I bet it was tiny. A teentsy weentsy, itsy bitsy.

[Gaius]

I bet it was tiny. A teentsy weentsy, itsy bitsy.

[Alpha]

Batman doesn't need Kryptonite anymore. If he ever wants to take down Superman he just has to show that photo to Lois

[SiegePerilous02]

Well, I mean...

Look at the all the other weird stuff that was in Batman Dammed but it was Bat-penis everyone lost their cool over.

This is the same company that wouldn't allow Batman to be...generous to his girlfriend on an adult cartoon, so you may have a point here

[Gaius]

Looks like there might be a Library Faux Leather Design Variant coming up also, going off of Historia's League of Comic Geeks page.

[Psy-lock]

I wonder if this book will find a way to incorporate Donna in some way. I know the last volume is supposed to end before Diana leaves the Island, but it doesn't mean Donna can't show up earlier (either rescued from the fire by Hippolyta or shipwrecked on Themyscira). The girl could really use a definitive, comprehensible origin story.

[Gaius]

I wonder if this book will find a way to incorporate Donna in some way. I know the last volume is supposed to end before Diana leaves the Island, but it doesn't mean Donna can't show up earlier (either rescued from the fire by Hippolyta or shipwrecked on Themyscira). The girl could really use a definitive, comprehensible origin story.

When I thought Jimenez was doing all the art, I figured it'd be a safe bet Donna would probably at least show up even if it wouldn't be a major plot point but not really sure what DeConnick's feelings are on Donna so we'll see.

[Psy-lock]

When I thought Jimenez was doing all the art, I figured it'd be a safe bet Donna would probably at least show up even if it wouldn't be a major plot point but not really sure what DeConnick's feelings are on Donna so we'll see.

If she’s planning a Donna-centric volume then I'm sure he'll come back for it.

[Gaius]

From a thread where DeConnick was talking about pre-orders.

[Gaius]

DeConnick also linked to an interview Jimenez did about the project that also has some insights on its development. It's fairly long one, and covers topics not really pertinent to the thread, so I've taken some select stuff there on the project for anyone interested.

Phil Jimenez is trying to figure out a shortcut. The superstar comic-book creator whose fans eagerly anticipate his daily “warm up” sketches that he posts on Instagram, is trying to figure out an easier way to finish an intensively detailed page from DC Comic’s upcoming Black Label series Wonder Woman Historia: The Amazons — the first comprehensive history of the Amazons of Themyscira.

“The time it’s taking to try to figure out this shortcut is probably going to be longer than the actual…,” Jimenez trails off. “I’ve given myself a ton to draw, and I’m like thinking, ‘There’s got to be a faster way to do this,’ and by the time I’m done figuring that out, it would probably just have been faster just to have done it. I’m drawing an army of like Greek warriors, Ares’ warriors, and the shortcut… I’m thinking maybe I can create like a single version of the armor and just cut and paste it, or maybe I’ll put some of them in shadow. I designed one bit of armor and I had to figure out how do I go about replicating this? And then, of course, you have to manipulate it, so it’s not just cut and paste, and I’m like, “Maybe I just need to shut the **** up and draw — so, that’s how my day is going.”

Historia was announced nearly two years ago but Jimenez says that the project’s genesis began even earlier and was originally conceived as a graphic novel. The writer, Kelly Sue DeConnick, is the brilliant scribe behind such titles as Bitch Planet, Pretty Deadly, and most notably, Captain Marvel. Her run on that character, Carol Danvers, is the blueprint that the Marvel Studio film was based on. “She’s just a really incredible writer.”

But even after that experience, Jimenez knew he had to be a part of Historia, the history of the Wonder Woman’s people and the character he’s probably most associated with because, “It’s the first time in publishing history — I believe — that that history has been written by a woman.”

Jimenez says, “Wonder Woman’s own history, and that of Diana’s childhood has been reinterpreted multiple times over the years in comics by many creators including women. But the actual history of her people, the history of the Amazons has not. That entire backstory has never been written by a woman. And so, that’s one of the reasons I was so excited about it. So, it’s a total reinterpretation of the Wonder Woman myth. What I really appreciate about it, to get jargon-y for a moment is it’s a super feminist take on this which Kelly Sue and I had some really interesting discussions about because the original version, I think, is the super queer take on it. And so, when I got involved with this, I did a lot of research, of course, and I’ve been doing all these academic papers on Wonder Woman anyway, but about the weird intersection of sort of queer politics and feminist politics and where they intersect and where they divide. And I feel like this book is sort of in that interesting space which is not just it’s not also a giant comic book full of superheroes and gods and things like that, but it’s just really interesting to tone.”

Jimenez has long believed and continues to believe even more that Wonder Woman speaks to us about two important things. One is sex and gender and the other is about war, and how we feel about them.

He also feels that the interesting core question of her character is whether or not the ideology of war is inherently feminist.

Is war a feminist ideology?

It’s not about should women be soldiers, but about the nature of war itself, and what war does and what it demands of its people, the people who fight in it. And subsequently one of the core questions becomes whether or not that’s compatible with feminism.

So, there are many working theories. But the two pertaining this question, one is feminism at its core, many would argue, is about demanding equality that all human beings be treated equally no matter their sort of sex or gender. The interesting thing about war is that it absolutely demands that your enemies be dehumanized in order for you to kill them and take and rob from them, right? War in itself is a dehumanizing act, and therefore, is that feminist. And then the counter argument which is really interesting is that feminism, like many other sorts of social forces, was built in opposition to sexism and patriarchy. At its core, it is a fight, It’s not just about getting equality, but it’s about fighting oppression. So, feminism at its core, it’s at war with patriarchy and sexism. So, these are the two kinds of super reductive, but those are the two kinds of core ideologies.”

For me, that’s at the heart of the history of the Amazons, and I think Kelly Sue and I might have different feelings about that — but she’s totally turned me on a couple of new ways of thinking about it.

One that he discovered revolves around Ares, the Greek God of War, who’s has historically been Wonder Woman’s primary villain. “But,” he says, “what I really come to realize over years of doing a lot of research and academic writing, is that Ares, doesn’t just represent war, both in comics and mythology, but patriarchy. He’s limited to the representation of what we call toxic masculinity today.

He continues, “It’s fascinating because Athena, is also the Goddess of War, but when associated with her, it’s strategic, it’s defensive, it’s the art of war itself.”

Jimenez adds, she’s also the Goddess of Cities, and a bunch of other stuff, but here we’re just focusing on war. Ares has historically been personified as a brutal, horrible person. And none of the other Olympian gods, except for Aphrodite is depicted like him.

Jimenez thinks that speaks to sexualization of war and battle, generally, in Western culture, right? We sexualize it, we make it sexy, to make it tangible to us. And I think there is an exhilarating thrill to it. Chris Hedges wrote, "War Is a Force That Gives Us Meaning".

“Marston truly believed in the art of submission, of completely submitting was love, and that men would stop shooting each other, right? Men’s inability to submit to love which Marston believed, aside from those kinks, was an incredibly potent force. Their inability to do that is why we had war, right? Because of the sense of love being feminized, because of it being weakness, etc. And so, Marston the kink stuff was if you could check it’s that whole loving submission thing that cleanup politics ruled by, you submit to love utterly, it will transform you, and that’s the other thing that was so amazing about those Marston Amazon’s unlike the later press one is that there’s a whole interesting thread about reformation among the Amazons. They did not punish, they reformed. And just thinking about today’s issues like defunding the police and Black Lives Matter, all that are happening while we’re talking about… But we’re talking about what is happening in terms of our society in terms of legacy of slavery, jail time, right? The conversation about reformation. Reform is never there.”

The fact that it was a huge component of Marston’s run where prisoners were taken to Paradise Island to be reformed, to be shown in a different way Jimenez thinks is so important, “so powerful. Of course, nobody remembers that it’s been gone for so long. But those are the components to me that it’s very interesting that sort of queer and feminist questions, again, about sex and gender, about submission, about the feminization of love, about the power of beauty, about war, and this war feminist ideology sustain war, all that kind of stuff, I think is what’s so fascinating to me, so fucking deep about this stuff. So, my opportunity to work on a project that goes with an avowed feminist writer like Kelly Sue and have some exchanges about that, it’s really what sold me on the book.”

On Historia we created 30 unique Amazons. And I was just saying, I want to get them right. I want to get them right in terms of armor how they look — but also so that they are accurate.

And at the end of the day that’s what Historia is — it’s Hippolyta’s story, not Diana’s.

[Sebastianne]

Than you for the clips.
He is so passionate, I'm really exciting bout this Hyppolita's Historia.

[I'm a Fish]

So they're bringing in some of the ol' Marston themes eyyy?

Interesting. Very Interesting.

[Gaius]

So they're bringing in some of the ol' Marston themes eyyy?

Interesting. Very Interesting.

This interview has me very interested to see what Themyscira will look like by the end of issue 9 if we get all them.

[Perseus]

The question of is war a feminist ideology or part of it, is something I've never heard of but I'm interested to see what stance, if any, the book will take.

[Gaius]

Than you for the clips.
He is so passionate, I'm really exciting bout this Hyppolita's Historia.

Yeah, pretty cool when we get WW creatives talking in depth on WW.

The question of is war a feminist ideology or part of it, is something I've never heard of but I'm interested to see what stance, if any, the book will take.

Yeah, wasn’t sure on DeConnick since I’ve never read her stuff before but pretty interested on what her takes will be now. Like how it will portray Athena and Ares.